Gettlefinger: No More UAW Concessions

[ANTAUS]

LINK-Detroit News

[96 Pony]

I had this whole thing to write out, but decided otherwise.

 

Just google the terms Vallejo California and Bankruptcy to see why my sympathy with Gettlefinger are nil.

[taxman100]

In Ohio, the maximum unemployment benefit with no dependents is $365 a week, with no benefits, pension, etc.

 

Unless their concessions give them less than that, then they have a point.

[jafo]

I guess this means UAW is prepared to go down with the ship.

[2005Explorer]

I guess this means UAW is prepared to go down with the ship.

 

They're going to learn a lesson pretty quick after the first Bankruptcy filing. It is going to be painful. Good luck UAW!

Edited November 16, 2008 by 2005Explorer

[jpd80]

Gettlefinger believes 2007 give backs were more than enough for troubled carmakers and more

should be done to stimulate the economy, people have to be able to buycars in the first place.

 

Not sure about Job bank, that would have to go if auto makers want access to funding.

[ANTAUS]

Job bank, getting paid when idle, pensions...gotta go. It'll be the only way the automakers will survive. Be lucky they even get health car for that matter.

 

"Instead, Gettelfinger blamed the problems the auto industry is suffering from on things beyond its control -- the housing slump, the credit crunch that has made financing a vehicle tough and the 1.2 million jobs that have been lost in the past year."

 

SPIN:.... Again, lets not try to blame ourselves, lets go try to blame something larger and focus attention from us.

 

""We're here not because of what the auto industry has done," he said. "We're here because of what has happened to the economy."

 

SPIN: Hmmm, its about what the UAW has done for decades.

 

Reminds me of that movie, "Little Shops of Horror", and that plant that kept saying "Feed Me, Feed me" and it kept on growing, ok well the UAW has to go on a diet. And seeing this, just lets me know they aren't willing to make it work, therefore, I want bankruptcy. Sink the f--kers.

[jpd80]

And yet Ford with the similar UAW contract looks as though it may squeek by.....

[focus05]

Well, the brilliance of Economics is that inefficiencies eventually get weeded out. The UAW is technically an inefficiency. The bankruptcy of just one of GM, Ford or Chrysler would certainly accomplish that.

 

Toyota has the ability to ramp its workforce up and down at will. They don't have to worry about strikes. They aren't carrying RHC or pension liabilities on their books. They aren't supporting hundreds of thousands of retired workers. There are rewards for overperformance. There are awards for plants hitting certain performance levels. Those concepts don't exists in the UAW, and they allow Toyota to run a very different shop than most UAW shops. Toyota also doesn't carry the baggage of years of being a UAW adversary. I'll be interested to see what might happen if ramp down production at NUMMI requires lay-offs where there is a UAW body.

 

But, despite everything I've said, Toyota's U.S. workforce is well-paid and have good benefits. But they are not burdened by their workforce, and that saves A LOT of money that can go into product development and constantly improving the company. The working relationship is stellar, and if Toyota hits the skids or needs to adjust, it might hurt, but that's what it takes to run a business.

 

The UAW did what they had to do in 2007. But it's true, it might not be enough. And although there has been a lot of incompetence and greed demonstrated throughout the exec ranks at the Detroit automakers there has been similar incompetence and greed demonstrated at the UAW throughout history. I would say Ford and the UAW have found some common ground - but they're probably going to have to go even farther if they want Ford to survive long-term, especially if GM goes bankrupt and wipes out everything, including its labor contracts.

Edited November 16, 2008 by focus05

[2005GTP]

If the UAW wants to blame someone, let them blame the very people they support, Democrats. If they would just allow oil drilling to keep gas prices down, then the Big 2.5 would not have a problem selling their money making SUV's and trucks. The only one who wouldn't be happy would be tree huggers. At this point, people and jobs come first.

 

If I was the UAW, I would have leveraged my vote of support for Obama with the promise of domestic oil drilling. Instead, they are on their knees begging for a hand out. Sad but they get what they deserve I guess.

[joihan777]

How much does Gettlefinger make?

[jpd80]

How much does Gettlefinger make?

About 5 cars/hour

[dante hicks]

But, despite everything I've said, Toyota's U.S. workforce is well-paid and have good benefits. But they are not burdened by their workforce, and that saves A LOT of money that can go into product development and constantly improving the company. The working relationship is stellar, and if Toyota hits the skids or needs to adjust, it might hurt, but that's what it takes to run a business.

 

Toyota's workforce is well-paid with good benefits because of the UAW. They pay competitively and they compete with the Big 3. The UAW negotiates pay for autoworkers and Toyota realizes that they need to pay similarly or else they'd have no workforce.

[TStag]

If the UAW wants to blame someone, let them blame the very people they support, Democrats. If they would just allow oil drilling to keep gas prices down, then the Big 2.5 would not have a problem selling their money making SUV's and trucks. The only one who wouldn't be happy would be tree huggers. At this point, people and jobs come first.

 

If I was the UAW, I would have leveraged my vote of support for Obama with the promise of domestic oil drilling. Instead, they are on their knees begging for a hand out. Sad but they get what they deserve I guess.

 

I love the way you are letting the people who run GM and co off the hook. Who's idea was it to build the gas gusslers in the first place? Hummer? Was that the UAW's fault too? Maybe they shot Kennedy too.

 

Whilst I think the UAW has a responsibility to even things up with workers at Toyota and co I also think people like Wagoner should do the honourable thing and fall on their sword. Also how much does he earn next to the boss of Toyota? Who's running his union?

[2005GTP]

I love the way you are letting the people who run GM and co off the hook. Who's idea was it to build the gas gusslers in the first place? Hummer? Was that the UAW's fault too? Maybe they shot Kennedy too.

 

Whilst I think the UAW has a responsibility to even things up with workers at Toyota and co I also think people like Wagoner should do the honourable thing and fall on their sword. Also how much does he earn next to the boss of Toyota? Who's running his union?

 

 

The company built the cars that its customers wanted and that was SUVs and trucks. They were just listening to the market. But I will agree with you that management has not been helpful. Look at the Firestone debacle with Ford. How much did that cost them? Bet they wish they had those 10's of billions right now.

 

That being said, the problem is even if Ford, GM and Chrysler were making all the small, fuel efficient cars that Toyota and Honda do, they still cannot make money on them. Their cost structure is just way to high. That cost structure is mostly caused by the UAW.

 

On a side note, you know the Dems are not worried so much about the big 2.5 as they are the union vote, why don't they simply fix the problem by telling all their pals to buy domestic cars. You know damn well Pelosi isn't driving domestic, especially in California. She has to be driving a Benz or BMW....remember....its California and you need to be hip.

[RangerM]

The problem with GM is the 450,000 UAW retirees (and surviving spouses) that it's on the hook for.

 

Given that GM has less than 100,000 active UAW employees, we are seeing a microcosm of what we can expect from Social Security/Medicare in the coming years.

[ironhorse]

The company built the cars that its customers wanted and that was SUVs and trucks. They were just listening to the market. But I will agree with you that management has not been helpful. Look at the Firestone debacle with Ford. How much did that cost them? Bet they wish they had those 10's of billions right now.

 

That being said, the problem is even if Ford, GM and Chrysler were making all the small, fuel efficient cars that Toyota and Honda do, they still cannot make money on them. Their cost structure is just way to high. That cost structure is mostly caused by the UAW.

 

On a side note, you know the Dems are not worried so much about the big 2.5 as they are the union vote, why don't they simply fix the problem by telling all their pals to buy domestic cars. You know damn well Pelosi isn't driving domestic, especially in California. She has to be driving a Benz or BMW....remember....its California and you need to be hip.

 

 

In addition,you are paying people $70+ per hour to build vehicles for people that make $15-30 per hour.

[atomcat68]

I know I said this before, but isn't it ironic that the party who won't bail out Detroit drive domestic cars and the party that wants to save them drives foreign.

[ANTAUS]

I fail to see how this becomes any partisan issue, but I guess at some point it always gets down to monica under the desk... The issue is the UAW not wanting to make concessions and being an outdated and inefficiency tool.

 

As I understand it and have read on various articles, I believe Toyota pays something around $13-17 an hour, whereas Ford/GM pays around $30+. I dont see how the UAW influence has made Toyota pay more, if anything, they pay much less.

[F250]

The company built the cars that its customers wanted and that was SUVs and trucks. They were just listening to the market.

 

Exactly, people that complain about American companies building big SUVs and trucks need to look at the sales records for the past 20 years. They were building exactly what people were buying at that time.

 

The problem with Ford was that they wasted the profits they earned in North America buying Euro-junk car companies instead of reinvesting it into Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury. That money could have kept the American car lineup strong, like the Taurus that was allowed to rot. Had they done that when fuel prices more than doubled and SUV sales tanked Ford would have been in a more competitive position.

[DTP Body Door Hang]

I fail to see how this becomes any partisan issue, but I guess at some point it always gets down to monica under the desk... The issue is the UAW not wanting to make concessions and being an outdated and inefficiency tool.

 

As I understand it and have read on various articles, I believe Toyota pays something around $13-17 an hour, whereas Ford/GM pays around $30+. I dont see how the UAW influence has made Toyota pay more, if anything, they pay much less.

 

And you my friend are a fucking dipshit! Here is a little tip, next time you go around "believing" shit and running your pie hole do a little research.

 

Here is what Toyota pays it's workers:

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-...r-first-time-l/

 

Thank you for playing and have a nice day.

[F250]

From the article :

In many instances, Toyota and other large foreign automakers operating assembly plants in the U.S. pay their workers near-UAW wages in an effort to dissuade them from unionizing

 

It's a win-win for workers at the transplants, they get free no obligation benifits from the UAW but if the UAW folds they won't be making that money for long and then sooner or later the UAW will return albeit not in it's current form.

[lfeg]

No more concessions = no more jobs. That is the algebra of 2008. Everyone WILL be making concessions - automakers, suppliers, workers, taxpayers. I expect Gettlefinger to be saying what he is - he has to justify his position and keep morale up in the membership because he knows the reality. The majority of "concessions" will be more union members cut loose as facilities are closed.

[J-150]

No more concessions = no more jobs. That is the algebra of 2008. Everyone WILL be making concessions - automakers, suppliers, workers, taxpayers. I expect Gettlefinger to be saying what he is - he has to justify his position and keep morale up in the membership because he knows the reality. The majority of "concessions" will be more union members cut loose as facilities are closed.

 

 

 

this is the key gamble.

 

Givethefinger is betting that the government bailouts will keep the automakers out of bankruptcy and keep the current contracts in place.

 

Its a big gamble, but I'm sure he doesn't want to go down as the UAW leader that lost it all.

[LSFan00]

And you my friend are a fucking dipshit! Here is a little tip, next time you go around "believing" shit and running your pie hole do a little research.

 

Here is what Toyota pays it's workers:

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/31/toyota-...r-first-time-l/

 

Thank you for playing and have a nice day.

 

In case you didn't read your link, they made more at one Toyota plant due to profit sharing. That isn't exactly relevant to the UAW contracts with GM/Ford/Chrysler. I wonder why that might be.