Deanh Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 oh, I'm wringing my hands in anticipation, will this mean a re-sighting of one of my all time faves ...Alfa?......their cars are WAY better now...they were unreliable Bimmers before un-reliable Bimmers.....talk about drivers cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Say what you want. That's a seat I'd like to sit in for a road trip!! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Say what you want. That's a seat I'd like to sit in for a road trip!! :lol: Are you sure? That arm rest looks pretty low, and the seat is bolted into a Chrysler K-Car...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Are you sure? That arm rest looks pretty low, and the seat is bolted into a Chrysler K-Car...... I didn't say I'd want the rest of the car, just the seat. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 OK now, since the three headed dog could not fix Chrysler, they yelled out Fix It Again Tony! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probeGT Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Say what you want. That's a seat I'd like to sit in for a road trip!! :lol: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. . . I want those in my living room! WITHOUT the K-car attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) The alliance does not contemplate that Fiat would make a cash investment in Chrysler or commit to funding Chrysler in the future. Of course not. I'm sure Cerberus assured Fiat that the gov't would take care of any contingencies along those lines. IMO, if Fiat can't pony up dough, then this alliance should be axed. If Fiat has no money, then they can't help Chrysler. All they can do is distract Chrysler's management and provide Cerberus with a false sense of security. Think about this: Cerberus just gave 35% of Chrysler to Fiat in exchange for a sheet of promises. Edited January 20, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Think about this: Cerberus just gave 35% of Chrysler to Fiat in exchange for a sheet of promises. Isn't that what Daimler did to Cerebus only the percentage is a bit less this time? Edited January 20, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Of course not. I'm sure Cerberus assured Fiat that the gov't would take care of any contingencies along those lines. IMO, if Fiat can't pony up dough, then this alliance should be axed. If Fiat has no money, then they can't help Chrysler. All they can do is distract Chrysler's management and provide Cerberus with a false sense of security. Think about this: Cerberus just gave 35% of Chrysler to Fiat in exchange for a sheet of promises. sounds suspiciously like a :"Lets get out of town whilst we can....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Isn't that what Daimler did to Cerebus only the percentage is a bit less this time? Kind of. Cerberus 'bought Chrysler with the money they saved'. Cerberus gave Daimler $7B. Daimler sunk $7.5B in Chrysler. Daimler recorded a net loss in "selling" Chrysler to Cerberus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Kind of. Cerberus 'bought Chrysler with the money they saved'. Cerberus gave Daimler $7B. Daimler sunk $7.5B in Chrysler. Daimler recorded a net loss in "selling" Chrysler to Cerberus. It's an interesting comparison, I wonder if Cerebus can now attract another stake holder on the back of Fiat joining? I see this move being all about Cerebus exit plan or at least reducing potential exposure to more debt. What do they care if Fiat brings nothing to the table, you reach a point where avoiding future losses are greater than any money return you might see from a sale. Edited January 20, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I don't know much about Fiat's current quality (and being Ford fans we can appreciate a company making improvements) Fiat is actually BETTER than Ford of Europe. And Fiat cars are certainly more exciting than Chrysler's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I don't know much about Fiat's current quality (and being Ford fans we can appreciate a company making improvements) Fiat is actually BETTER than Ford of Europe. And Fiat cars are certainly more exciting than Chrysler's. That chart is from 2004. Well Look like Chrysler is European Controlled again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) That chart is from 2004. And it's European consumers expressing their opinion of European market products. Don't think it translates to US expectations. Edited January 20, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 The day Toyota takes a share in Ford is the day I will not ever buy a Ford again. Me too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Those seats look like the result of a DIY reupholstering job using kleenex stuffing and black Hefty garbage bag covers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68Cougar Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Cerberus just gave 35% of Chrysler to Fiat in exchange for a sheet of promises. Looks like Fiat paid too much then! Fiat has been wanting to get back in the US, and Chrysler has the sales channels they need. Match made in heaven? Doubtful, but I think Cerberus is ready for anyone to take Chrysler off their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Good move. I hope them success. It had to happen. Chryslers survival needs money, technology and a partner. Without this they will end with a fire sale. Both companies have a wealth of technologies. They will have to work together if they want to succeed. Too bad there is no Japanese connection. Japan likely is a non-issue long term anyway. Fiat will win in the BRIC countries. Expect Joint ventures with other smaller companies in the BRIC countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 It had to happen. Chryslers survival needs money, technology and a partner. Without this they will end with a fire sale. And what? Two out of three is good enough? Fiat just got 35% of Chrysler for zilch. Know what that values the entire Chrysler operation at? Zilch. Chrysler is toast. Unless the game plan by Daimer and Fiat (which now own 53% of Chrysler) is to expect the US government to loan them money hand over fist, and with considerably less due diligence than they've faced so far. --- I understand the need for a bailout. However, what Fiat is doing, and what Cerberus is doing is unconscionable. Fiat is using the US government to buy Chrysler. Fiat gets the equity, the US government ponies up the dough. You tell me how that makes any kind of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 And what? Two out of three is good enough? Fiat just got 35% of Chrysler for zilch. Know what that values the entire Chrysler operation at? Zilch. Chrysler is toast. Unless the game plan by Daimer and Fiat (which now own 53% of Chrysler) is to expect the US government to loan them money hand over fist, and with considerably less due diligence than they've faced so far. --- I understand the need for a bailout. However, what Fiat is doing, and what Cerberus is doing is unconscionable. Fiat is using the US government to buy Chrysler. Fiat gets the equity, the US government ponies up the dough. You tell me how that makes any kind of sense. All that Fiat has done so far is take an interest Chrysler from Cerberus. It is a private deal between Fiat and Cerberus. This gives Chrysler access to Fiat's infratructure, management and technology. This only represent present valuation. Chrysler still needs money. I would think all three parties, Fiat, Curberus, and the government will be putting money for the future development of Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I would think all three parties, Fiat, Curberus, and the government will be putting money for the future development of Chrysler. You've seen exactly how far Fiat and Cerberus value Chrysler. The only entity of those three that (apparently) sees any value in Chrysler is the government, and that not so much for the quality of their products as for their impact on the economy. Why on earth would you think that Fiat will be investing money in Chrysler products? Nothing in their term sheet said a thing about investing in Chrysler products. Fiat is doing nothing more than providing "ACCESS." That means its still up to Chrysler to figure out a way to pay for anything of Fiat's that they want to use. --- Don't kid yourself. Fiat doesn't see any long term value in Chrysler. The only entity that assigns any long term value to Chrysler right now is the US government, and that only so far as they're willing to prevent Chrysler from catastrophically failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 You've seen exactly how far Fiat and Cerberus value Chrysler. The only entity of those three that (apparently) sees any value in Chrysler is the government, and that not so much for the quality of their products as for their impact on the economy. Why on earth would you think that Fiat will be investing money in Chrysler products? Nothing in their term sheet said a thing about investing in Chrysler products. Fiat is doing nothing more than providing "ACCESS." That means its still up to Chrysler to figure out a way to pay for anything of Fiat's that they want to use. --- Don't kid yourself. Fiat doesn't see any long term value in Chrysler. The only entity that assigns any long term value to Chrysler right now is the US government, and that only so far as they're willing to prevent Chrysler from catastrophically failing. Then let the fire sale start today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Anyone would want to take a real close look at Chrysler and develop a plan before investing into it. Owning 35% means that Fiat will take a real serious look at a recovery plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 IMHO, "bailout" loans by the Government should be for American companies only. Chrysler is now foreign controlled, and the current loans should be called back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Anyone would want to take a real close look at Chrysler and develop a plan before investing into it. Owning 35% means that Fiat will take a real serious look at a recovery plan. You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? But what is Fiat risking? NOTHING. They have NO capital tied up in Chrysler. What is Fiat gaining access to? Funds to federalize its lineup and a dealer network to sell it. What, again, is Fiat's risk here? It doesn't exist. ----- Basically, Fiat is marrying a terminally ill heiress.......... Heck, I'd go so far as to suggest that Marchionne has just hauled a preacher and two witnesses into the hospital room in order to solemnize a marriage to a coma patient on life support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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