blazerdude20 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7484028/th...ck-n/index.html okay now i realize that is a forum but it would make sense following kuzaks comments about a ridgeline type vehicle not being out of the question. i hope its true. might mean the end of the ranger though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I would say the idea would be far fetched, I just have a few concerns. IN relation with the Ridgeline, if the Sport Trac is to be unibody, how much of a profit margin would there be going from BOF to Unibody for this vehicle. Granted, many other vehicles are built off the same platform which I'm sure would "help", but at what price point would such a vehicle make sense? The Ridgeline has never met Hondas initial sales goals. It's too fat for what it is, and fuel economy is as that of a regular F-150 with a V8? I can only picture this senario if the Sport Trac becomes a "lifestyle" truck vehicle. And even then, the porker will probably come in around 4000-4200lbs. using D4, and throw in an Egoboost I-4 and I'm already seeing that vehicle hit $28K. And as for this senario becoming the Ranger, I think doing an F-100 might be more workable and financially feasable, than creating the above mentioned senario. I'm also guessing that as the market becomes fragmented, and sales are dropping in general, Ford might want to "protect" it's "Best selling" status about it's F-series. I wouldn't doubt the Ranger replacement be thrown into the F-series tally by calling it F-100, and maybe make "Ranger" a trim line (as it was once actually). But again, I dont see a Ranger replacement be unibody... Ford would have a hard time making a profit pricing it where the Ranger currently resides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 It looks like Ford has cancelled the F100 for budget reasons. This means that they would have to use the Thai Ranger in the US for the low end truck market. As long as consumers have the full frame Ranger truck for people who need full truck capability in a small cheap truck, then I think a D4/Explorer based Sport trac or a RWD unitbody truck would be great for consumer use. Good to carrying the ATV's home from the mall. Usually when people like Kuzaks make such a statement, they are testing people response to an idea. Our response will determine whether it is further investigated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Sounds great, I would buy a unibody Sport Trac! Build it, sell it, and advertise it already so people know it exists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrtran Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I would say the idea would be far fetched, I just have a few concerns. IN relation with the Ridgeline, if the Sport Trac is to be unibody, how much of a profit margin would there be going from BOF to Unibody for this vehicle. Granted, many other vehicles are built off the same platform which I'm sure would "help", but at what price point would such a vehicle make sense? Well, since the Sport Trac is built off the Explorer, and the Explorer America concept hints that the Explorer is going unibody, I see an economy of scale, here. The Ridgeline has never met Hondas initial sales goals. It's too fat for what it is, and fuel economy is as that of a regular F-150 with a V8? The Ridgeline doesn't sell because: 1. It's ugly 2. It's not as well-engineered as Hondas used to be, and 3. It's usefulness as a "real" truck is limited - and it's the only "truck" in Honda's lineup. I can only picture this senario if the Sport Trac becomes a "lifestyle" truck vehicle. And even then, the porker will probably come in around 4000-4200lbs. using D4, and throw in an Egoboost I-4 and I'm already seeing that vehicle hit $28K. Ford's site lists the base price of the 2009 Sport Trac as $27,460. And it's already a "lifestyle" truck. And as for this senario becoming the Ranger, I think doing an F-100 might be more workable and financially feasable, than creating the above mentioned senario. I'm also guessing that as the market becomes fragmented, and sales are dropping in general, Ford might want to "protect" it's "Best selling" status about it's F-series. I wouldn't doubt the Ranger replacement be thrown into the F-series tally by calling it F-100, and maybe make "Ranger" a trim line (as it was once actually). But again, I dont see a Ranger replacement be unibody... Ford would have a hard time making a profit pricing it where the Ranger currently resides. As Ford already sells Ranger, Sport Trac, and F150 side-by-side, I don't see this as becoming any more fragmented. They each have a different niche right now. Also, don't forget that this is just a rumor (albeit a plausible one), and Ford hasn't given us any hints on a future Sport Trac even existing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 The Ridgeline doesn't sell because: 1. It's ugly 2. It's not as well-engineered as Hondas used to be, and 3. It's usefulness as a "real" truck is limited - and it's the only "truck" in Honda's lineup. thanks to rednecks and small minded banjo players, Ridgeline got tagged as a "not a real mans truck" wanna bet that if the ST goes uni-body and Ford sells the heck out of why uni-body is good, that Ridge sales will go up with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Doesn't the Sport Trac have one of the largest Ford "cult" followings only behind the Mustang? It's definitely a vehicle to keep, redesign and improve. Don't throw away customer's like those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Doesn't the Sport Trac have one of the largest Ford "cult" followings only behind the Mustang? It's definitely a vehicle to keep, redesign and improve. Don't throw away customer's like those. If it has a "cult" following, it is because it is different from your common truck. The secret is to keep it different without losing advantages. The capabilities need to be defined by what the customers need and want. The bed of the Sport Trac needs to carry an ATV or bikes better than a real truck. Needs to tow a light boat or tailer. Needs to go anywhere. Needs to be fuel efficient. All this can be done with unit body. Does it need to pull a heavy trailer? I would say no if it can do the other things better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Do we know what the specific sale figures are for the Sport Trac? Well pre-depression numbers, like early last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) Well back when the Explorer was selling between 250,000 to 400,000 units a year, the Sport Trac consistently sold about 5,000 to 6,000 units a month. Now I would say probably about 500 to 1,000 units if that monthly. But you gotta remember the Sport Trac is sold through out North America (USA, Canada, Mexico) plus Japan and the Middle East. Edited February 15, 2009 by ExplorerDude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 If it has a "cult" following, it is because it is different from your common truck. The secret is to keep it different without losing advantages. The capabilities need to be defined by what the customers need and want. The bed of the Sport Trac needs to carry an ATV or bikes better than a real truck. Needs to tow a light boat or tailer. Needs to go anywhere. Needs to be fuel efficient. All this can be done with unit body. Does it need to pull a heavy trailer? I would say no if it can do the other things better. A unibody "Sport Trac" has been "on the drawing boards" at Ford as long as there has been a D3 platform. The problem at Ford initially was there was an existing Explorer platform that served as a good basis for a Sport Trac and effectively ruled out a unibody. Honda's Ridgeline is a different matter. Since Honda did not have a proper bof truck, they decided to go with the Odyssey/Pilot platform rather than develop a unique platform. Probably smart in the long run if we look at Nissan's poor results. But...because they had to try to match at least some of the performance of the bof trucks, the structure required a lot of beefing up in the midsection which contributes to the ugly factor in a big way. Since the new Explorer will be unibody FWD/AWD, there is now a new opportunity. And I agree with you that whatever Sport Trac Ford considers should have some unique attributes, but matching F150 attributes is not necessary. Innovative storage/tiedowns would be nice. So, I'm assuming it's a matter of potential volumes and pricing, investment costs and budget, and capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Here's an idea: if the next Sport Trac is built on an extended Explorer unibody structure why not take advantage of the fact that it no longer needs to have a separate bed? Why not design in something like the Avalanche's mid-gate? I have an 07 Sport Trac and the biggest improvement I would like to see would be a longer, more useful bed. Using part of the cab space for longer objects makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Honda's Ridgeline is a different matter. Since Honda did not have a proper bof truck, they decided to go with the Odyssey/Pilot platform rather than develop a unique platform. so Ford is about to use an improper platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I have put up a good arguement for a unit body Sport Trac. I do have real issues with a FWD truck. Ford needs to find money to develop a RWD unit body truck. I hope Kuzak is thinking long-term GRWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 so Ford is about to use an improper platform? J150, that's not what I was trying to say. Unibody doesn't work particularly well if you want a pickup with a wide spread of capability. This is one case where having a frame and a separate cab and bed works well. A bof truck also allows the bed to flex separately from the cab. In a unibody where the bed and cab are tied together, you can end up with a heavy middle to keep the vehicle structure from failing under heavy duty conditions. But, for a lighter-duty vehicle like a Sport Trac, unibody should work just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I have put up a good arguement for a unit body Sport Trac. I do have real issues with a FWD truck. Ford needs to find money to develop a RWD unit body truck. I hope Kuzak is thinking long-term GRWD. I don't think there is any possibility of any GRWD with today's environment. And I don't believe there would be any thought whatsoever about developing a unibody RWD truck. If Ford is concerned about image, they could make AWD standard on all Sport Tracs (if they actually do decide to develop one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 When things start to improve, the GRWD program can be restarted. With the F100 cancelled and the Panther dead, Ford needs the GRWD. I think the GRWD could be done on a discount budget based off the Australian Falcon, designed in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I don't think there is any possibility of any GRWD with today's environment. And I don't believe there would be any thought whatsoever about developing a unibody RWD truck. If Ford is concerned about image, they could make AWD standard on all Sport Tracs (if they actually do decide to develop one). That would make a convertible minivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 That would make a convertible minivan. My mom would like a convertible Expedition. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 My mom would like a convertible Expedition. :shades: That would be a real truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 With a T6 Ranger crew cab, why would you need a Sport Trac? Can you make a case for both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 J150, that's not what I was trying to say. Unibody doesn't work particularly well if you want a pickup with a wide spread of capability. This is one case where having a frame and a separate cab and bed works well. A bof truck also allows the bed to flex separately from the cab. In a unibody where the bed and cab are tied together, you can end up with a heavy middle to keep the vehicle structure from failing under heavy duty conditions. But, for a lighter-duty vehicle like a Sport Trac, unibody should work just fine. Most 1/2 tons NEVER haul. Ford's over-engineered truck is a joke for the average owner. And I have to laugh when the chest thumpers go off on what constitutes a "real "truck when they have virgin paint in the bed of what they own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 With a T6 Ranger crew cab, why would you need a Sport Trac? Can you make a case for both? there will not be both. We were given the Sport Trac over a crew cab Ranger for 2 reasons: 1) maintained Explorers sales volume for industry pissing contests 2) higher price tag thatn a CC Ranger similarly equipped (because its not a pickup, its an SUV) Now that Alan Mulally is not in favor of sales titles over profitability, there is no need to continue making the ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 With a T6 Ranger crew cab, why would you need a Sport Trac? Can you make a case for both? People need a bigger and more comfortable vehicle for bringing home their new big screen tv from the mall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue II Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 there will not be both. We were given the Sport Trac over a crew cab Ranger for 2 reasons: 1) maintained Explorers sales volume for industry pissing contests 2) higher price tag thatn a CC Ranger similarly equipped (because its not a pickup, its an SUV) Now that Alan Mulally is not in favor of sales titles over profitability, there is no need to continue making the ST Ahh......we have a winner. NOOOOOOO ST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.