Cougarpower Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 hey guys what do you think about this poster at GMI and what would your answer be to this comment since I would want more experience people with more knowledge on the topic ok enough is enough. has everyone forgot why ford didnt go with the gov't?? Bill Ford jr didnt wanna give up his 40% market share rights and the US government said STFU, DO THIS OR NO MONEY, and they said, fine. - IF ANYONE IS A FORD SHAREHOLDER I WOULD BE FURIOUS ABOUT UNEQUAL REPRESENTATION LIKE THAT!!!!! ford blows through all their credit with their buildings, if ford doesnt pay back, they are done indefinetly. no buildings = no one works = nothings made = no company. lets set the record straight here. This "ecoboost" is nothing new to GM's designs. POP QUIZ: WHAT IS ECOBOOST PEOPLE OF GMI!! (lets see how many answer) In fact, your talking about that new engine develupment...if u know the right people, u will know that the new V6 from ford is a "copycat" of the cadillac CTS motor from 2003, the HFV6. before anyone tries to argue, DO YOUR RESEARCH because its out there. Funny thing is that the Ford engineers couldnt figure out how to use the Exhaust cam phasing on the block, so they only have single cam phasing for the intake. Believe what you want, i know for a fact this has happened. Ford engineers here in michigan arent proud of that engine because of this........... if u think anything else, ur sadly mistaken 6-speed transmission.......yet again, if you know the right people and do your damn research you'll see ford bought the rights from GM to manufacter GM's 6-speed that they develuped because Ford couldnt make one better........you wanna call me out, be my guest, but it wont change whats fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbmphil Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The guy can't spelled "developed" correctly. Reeeealllll legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If the Duratec 35 is a copy of the HFV6, how comes it to be that the Duratec 35 is almost the exact same size as the Duratec 30? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbmphil Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 CONSPIRACY!!!!111!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 GMI must be rather psychotic these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizco Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 hey guys what do you think about this poster at GMI and what would your answer be to this comment since I would want more experience people with more knowledge on the topic: "6-speed transmission.......yet again, if you know the right people and do your damn research you'll see ford bought the rights from GM to manufacter GM's 6-speed that they develuped because Ford couldnt make one better........you wanna call me out, be my guest, but it wont change whats fact." That bit about the transmission is a bit of a stretch. It started out as the co-developed unit between Ford and GM. Of course, the Ford transmission team achieve much better shift quality, higher quality, and substantially lower cost per unit. Its one product that's 95% the same between the two companies, so its a great place to make comparisons if you're a Ford fan. If you're a GM fan, its an issue to be avoided, or glossed over, as this poster did. My girl used to work in Livonia, and one of the directors gave a presentation during an all-hands comparing the two designs, their costs, and their warranty performance. It was pretty shocking. Swizco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarpower Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Going to GMI lately for me has become kind of depressing with all the GM chapter 11 talk of lately I had hope on GM for sometime but they just kept going deeper and deeper and for those who go there yes its me 1931Chevy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 To me it boils down to: I'm going to make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims, along with claims that are demonstrably false and your an idiot if you don't believe me I'm too smart to back up my blather with proof ford sucks gm rocks lolz!!111!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) If the Duratec 35 is a copy of the HFV6, how comes it to be that the Duratec 35 is almost the exact same size as the Duratec 30? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????????? And, the Duratec 30 goes back to 1996, way longer than the HFV6. HFV6 was only ever intended as a 3.2 liter engine but Holden and Cadillac insisted on a larger size which caused no end of troubles with the redesign of the engine, the 3.6 HFV6 is a compromised design. Look at Cadillac's 3.6 DI engine, it has 4 cam phasers and a dual inlet manifold. The Ford Duratec 37 with only inlet cam phasers and no dual track manifold makes the same torque!!!!! Edited March 3, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 There are a lot of clueless people over there. I was going to respond to that thread but its useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 C'mon guys, "DO YOUR RESEARCH because its out there!" Clearly the D35 is a copy, its direct-acting bucket valve train is practically identical to the roller-finger followers in the HF V6s. The Duratec's single timing chain is the same as the the two or three chains used on the GM engine, and of course let's not forget about the Ford's metal valve covers, since they're the same as the HF's plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 C'mon guys, "DO YOUR RESEARCH because its out there!" Clearly the D35 is a copy, its direct-acting bucket valve train is practically identical to the roller-finger followers in the HF V6s. The Duratec's single timing chain is the same as the the two or three chains used on the GM engine, and of course let's not forget about the Ford's metal valve covers, since they're the same as the HF's plastic. Well done Admiral, you're the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Everyone copies everyone. The best companies take the best ideas from all their competitors. The dumb ones only copy one design, their old design. If GM had really done anything new with their engine, it would have been patented. Is Ford copying Mini by using FWD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30 OTT 6 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The beast is wounded and cornered. It is unpredictable and dangerous! Stay away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Everyone copies everyone. The best companies take the best ideas from all their competitors. The dumb ones only copy one design, their old design. If GM had really done anything new with their engine, it would have been patented. Is Ford copying Mini by using FWD? Oh so true and they probably claim Ford MOD V8s are copies the Caddy North Star too, I know which one was more successful - the one that survived...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 For years, GM has implemented certain things much quicker, than Ford has had, even if Ford was that one that was moving in that direction. I do not think GM has many skills when it comes to innovations, rather, they'll take the idea and run much quicker with it. I guess this person needs to make up stuff to at least redirect the conversation of "doom and gloom" they have been dealing with for awhile. When GM goes belly up,wonder what fan-club he'll join next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkapeGote Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Sup, It is true that GM is faster at bringing new ideas to market, the problem is that GM launches things very well, the lets them languish. Ford has the complete opposite issue. Ford always launches horribly, then it takes them 3 - 5 years to fix the issues. The Focus is a good example, the Taurus comes to mind in 86. GM is always looking to hit the ball out of the park, Ford seems to look for base hits. Either way, this is not a copy of the HFV6. The guy who posted that is an idiot, trying to say the Ford couldn't figure out how to do it the same way GM did. Twin turbos is not a Cyclone exclusive idea, people have been doing this for years. Also, the cyclone may utilize 2 turbos, but it was not supposed to be a daily driver either. It was designed as a "Super Truck", like the Ford Lightening was. Ecoboost is designed for long term use as a possible V8 replacement. He is just upset because of the recent Ford press involving the Ecoboost engine and the problems GM is suffering. Just to be as overtly idiotic as he was with that statement, I claim that GM has been ripping Ford of for the past 100 years for copying the idea of the Car, or the assembly line. Obviously this is a stupid statement, we all know that, he is just spew some verbal diarrhea because he feels GM is taking it up the butt compared to Ford. The real heart of the issue are "Brandboys". People who are fans of a brand, not a experience. I am a car fan, I enjoy great automobiles. I find Ford meets my needs pretty good, but that is not to say the G8 is a wonderful car, or the Vette. We all need to learn to speak freely, but kindly on these subjects. People are way to militant in defending the honor of some car company that most of the time does not defend themselves against attacks. Why do they not speak up? because it is childish to sling mud over something so stupid. I love GM guys for there stalwart dedication to their brand, same as I love Ford guys for theirs. I just wish people would learn to appreciate greatness, and not let short sightedness prevail so often. The American car companies are in trouble, and we as Ford fans need to bolster the image of American Cars. Not just Ford cars. If we are not in this together, we are all screwed. Remember, parts suppliers need GM, Ford, and Chrysler to survive. If GM fails, Ford will not be far behind. So I say good luck to GM, they will need it as much as Ford will. Skape Edited March 3, 2009 by SkapeGote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The American car companies are in trouble, and we as Ford fans need to bolster the image of American Cars. Not just Ford cars. If we are not in this together, we are all screwed. Agreed with you up until this point. While a couple of years ago, I would have agreed with this sentiment, I now feel it's time to cut the cord. Ford is clearly not in the same position as GM and Chrysler, and to continue to try to lump them together only goes toward harming Ford's image at this point. Ford needs to show they are different and that they aren't the old American automaker that GM and Chrysler still are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Agreed with you up until this point. While a couple of years ago, I would have agreed with this sentiment, I now feel it's time to cut the cord. Ford is clearly not in the same position as GM and Chrysler, and to continue to try to lump them together only goes toward harming Ford's image at this point. Ford needs to show they are different and that they aren't the old American automaker that GM and Chrysler still are. +1 It's pretty simple math, if the annualized selling rate for vehicles goes from 16 million down to 9 million, a whole bunch of people in the parts suppler networks are no longer needed. This fear that a collapsed GM will drag down even more suppliers is laughable given that the depressed economy is doing that anyway, there is no getting back to 16 million vehicles any time soon. It's time for a clean out, maybe it's Chrysler that goes to save GM but either way, something has to give. On the subject of GM's HFV6, Thr Cadillac LLT Version with Direct Injection, DIVCT and Variable Intake manifold produces: 302 horsepower at 6300 rpm and 272 lb·ft at 5200 rpm on 87 octane gasoline. Ford's Duratec 3.7 V6 with Port Injection, and VCT on inlet valves only produces up to: 275 hp at 6250 rpm and 276 lb·ft at 4250 rpm A comparable HFV6 3.6 with similar features to the Duratec 37 makes far less power and torque: 235 horsepower at 6000 rpm and 225 lb.ft at 3100 rpm. Edited March 3, 2009 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 +1It's pretty simple math, if the annualized selling rate for vehicles goes from 16 million down to 9 million, a whole bunch of people in the parts suppler networks are no longer needed. This fear that a collapsed GM will drag down even more suppliers is laughable given that the depressed economy is doing that anyway, there is no getting back to 16 million vehicles any time soon. It's time for a clean out, maybe it's Chrysler that goes to save GM but either way, something has to give. Very good point on the suppliers. Just because GM and/or Chrysler go under does not mean their suppliers instantly lose that share of business. The only case in which that would be true is if every shopper who was considering a GM or Chrysler as their next vehicle simply didn't buy anything at all. Instead, they will simply buy from another company. The overall number of vehicles sold would likely be about the same, with or without GM and Chrysler in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Very good point on the suppliers. Just because GM and/or Chrysler go under does not mean their suppliers instantly lose that share of business. The only case in which that would be true is if every shopper who was considering a GM or Chrysler as their next vehicle simply didn't buy anything at all. Instead, they will simply buy from another company. The overall number of vehicles sold would likely be about the same, with or without GM and Chrysler in the mix. And it's pretty obvious that Ford and Toyota knowing this would have some contingency plans in place. The best thing both could do is get everything they can through Tier 1 suppliers and let them deal with the problem of guaranteed supply from tier 2 & 3 suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 A very knowledgable poster on another forum was talking about this, in reference to the unravelling of GM. Basically, he said if GM would have entered a non controlled BK, in December, Ford/Toyota/Honda/etc would have been in a world of hurt. Basically, they would not have had a complete contingency plan at that time. He said that at this time, this would not be a big problem. Most of the major suppliers, and the other manufacturers have put into place a contingency plan, for a GM/Chrysler BK. While they would be affected to a degree, at this time, it would not be fatal. As he knows alot of insiders, and is pretty much right on most aspects of the industry, I do have a tendency to believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 A very knowledgable poster on another forum was talking about this, in reference to the unravelling of GM. Basically, he said if GM would have entered a non controlled BK, in December, Ford/Toyota/Honda/etc would have been in a world of hurt. Basically, they would not have had a complete contingency plan at that time. He said that at this time, this would not be a big problem. Most of the major suppliers, and the other manufacturers have put into place a contingency plan, for a GM/Chrysler BK. While they would be affected to a degree, at this time, it would not be fatal. As he knows alot of insiders, and is pretty much right on most aspects of the industry, I do have a tendency to believe him. Thank you for that information, I think your source is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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