Hugh Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 There is no information confirming anything. I am looking at the Toyota Venza with a 2.7 I4 and 6 spd Auto. Taking in considerations of platform size, weight, and towing requirements. I don't have the numbers in front of me of the Venza and Edge but IIRC, they are the same class. So, does a Edge w/D25 and 6A (manual?) have a case? Discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) There is no information confirming anything. I am looking at the Toyota Venza with a 2.7 I4 and 6 spd Auto. Taking in considerations of platform size, weight, and towing requirements. I don't have the numbers in front of me of the Venza and Edge but IIRC, they are the same class. So, does a Edge w/D25 and 6A (manual?) have a case? Discuss... I'm not completely sure, but I think weight may be the biggest issue here. Yeah, I believe the Edge and Venza are the same "class," but I think Edge may weigh more (I can't look it up right now), therefore eliminating possible mileage gains a 4-cyl would offer. If the 2010/11 model may be lighter, who knows, you may see a 4-cyl in there......I'd say a better bet is the 4-cyl EcoBoost engine, though, as opposed to a regular 4-cyl. EDIT: oh, and a manual.....not sure about that one either. Edited April 5, 2009 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Yeah, I'd say weight is the biggest no no for a non-boosted 4 cyl motor. Our 09 Edge clocks in at (number has changed thanks to Critic)4,100lbs. Even being boosted the 4cyl will drink some fuel getting ol porky going. Just looking real quick, not matching model for model but the venza clocks in 3,700lbs and the edge is 4,300lbs.... big difference. Edited April 6, 2009 by Hydro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah, I'd say weight is the biggest no no for a non-boosted 4 cyl motor. Our 09 Edge clocks in at 5,100lbs. Even being boosted the 4cyl will drink some fuel getting ol porky going. Just looking real quick, not matching model for model but the venza clocks in 3,700lbs and the non vista roof edge is 4,300lbs.... big difference. As I suspected, Venza weights quite a bit less. And I'm not sure how much, if any weight will be trimmed for Edge's MCE (it may even gain weight). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 There is no information confirming anything. I am looking at the Toyota Venza with a 2.7 I4 and 6 spd Auto. Taking in considerations of platform size, weight, and towing requirements. I don't have the numbers in front of me of the Venza and Edge but IIRC, they are the same class. So, does a Edge w/D25 and 6A (manual?) have a case? Discuss... Ford has stated that there will be EB 4-cylinders available in every car and crossover that Ford makes. I have no idea what that means in terms of fuel economy or performance. I have my doubts on the heavier models (in particular the Flex). I think it's certain we'll see EB in the new Explorer in an attempt to boost mpg above 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 I was too lazy to post a tale of the tape. I suspected weight would be an issue and I wasn't considering EcoBoost at this time. The way I see it, Escape is going and with it the D30. Replacement could have a large displacement four and a small EcoBoost. Edge might go on a diet but that's unknown. I wanted to see where it would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbuck15 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yeah, I'd say weight is the biggest no no for a non-boosted 4 cyl motor. Our 09 Edge clocks in at 5,100lbs. Even being boosted the 4cyl will drink some fuel getting ol porky going. Just looking real quick, not matching model for model but the venza clocks in 3,700lbs and the non vista roof edge is 4,300lbs.... big difference. 5,100 lbs an AWD Edge is 4,500 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Yeah, I'd say weight is the biggest no no for a non-boosted 4 cyl motor. Our 09 Edge clocks in at 5,100lbs. Even being boosted the 4cyl will drink some fuel getting ol porky going. Where did you get your weight for the Edge? It's 4288 for a Limited http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2009/ford/edge/compare.html Your weight you list is close to the max. gross weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 Right, before we get crazy over figures, does anyone have the stats for Murano, Vezna and Edge handy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Right, before we get crazy over figures, does anyone have the stats for Murano, Vezna and Edge handy? Murano AWD: 4141 Venza V6 AWD: 3870 We've already seen numbers for the Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Where did you get your weight for the Edge? It's 4288 for a Limited http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2009/ford/edge/compare.html Your weight you list is close to the max. gross weight. Ok, I think your right. I was skimming my door sticker really quick for the build date yesterday and ran across the 5,100 or so lbs. I just assumed it was the vehicles weight. We have the Limited as you mentioned, but with FWD so it clocks in around 4,100lbs. I feel better now :happy feet: Edited April 6, 2009 by Hydro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Base curb weight FWD 4,078 AWD 4,288 Anyone have a weight on a 4 cyl Vezna? Edited April 6, 2009 by Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2009/ford/edge/compare.html Nissan Murano SL AWD V6 Curb 4030.1 FWD 3875.7 toyoda Venza AWD V6 Curb 4045.5 FWD 3869.1 Venza AWD L4 3944.1 FWD L4 3758.9 no 4 cyc. for Nissan Edited April 6, 2009 by Critic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Murano AWD: 4141Venza V6 AWD: 3870 We've already seen numbers for the Edge. Nissan Murano SL AWD V6 Curb 4030.1 FWD 3875.7toyoda Venza AWD V6 Curb 4045.5 FWD 3869.1 Venza AWD L4 3944.1 FWD L4 3758.9 no 4 cyc. for Nissan I guess depending on where you get the numbers their will be a discrepancy. I know that when they had a grain elevator near me, I use to top up my fuel tank and get my vehicles weighed. I checked the door sticker on my MKX, window sticker, owners manual, Ford web site and can not find a published weight given to me by Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The Edge generally weighs about 200 lbs more than the Venza and 100 lbs more than the Murano feature for feature. I would suspect the 2011 won't lose any weight, but not gain any either. Ford will equip it to the gills with its new safety equipment. Until they switch out their CD platform and completely redesign the Edge, it will remain a bit porky. Could a 4-cylinder handle the Edge? Sure. Even the new 2.5 has more power than my old vulcan 3.0L in my nearly 2-ton Aerostar. Would there be a mileage advantage? Not really. Maybe an mpg or two. Will the Venza actually return its EPA estimates in the real world with the 4-cylinder? No. I just don't believe it. Ford had been talking about a 2.7 V6. Would that work in the Edge? Yes, probably a little better. Maybe 26-27 mpg highway. But, honestly, if Ford would spend a little time working on their 3.5 and getting the drivetrain a bit more optimal, they could probably get 18/25-26 out of it anyway. But a 2.0L EB that's well tuned with a DSG will probably be rated 21/30 like the new Equinox but have an extra 50-60 ponies at its disposal when needed. So, that's the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 The Edge generally weighs about 200 lbs more than the Venza and 100 lbs more than the Murano feature for feature. I would suspect the 2011 won't lose any weight, but not gain any either. Ford will equip it to the gills with its new safety equipment. Until they switch out their CD platform and completely redesign the Edge, it will remain a bit porky. Could a 4-cylinder handle the Edge? Sure. Even the new 2.5 has more power than my old vulcan 3.0L in my nearly 2-ton Aerostar. Would there be a mileage advantage? Not really. Maybe an mpg or two. Will the Venza actually return its EPA estimates in the real world with the 4-cylinder? No. I just don't believe it. Ford had been talking about a 2.7 V6. Would that work in the Edge? Yes, probably a little better. Maybe 26-27 mpg highway. But, honestly, if Ford would spend a little time working on their 3.5 and getting the drivetrain a bit more optimal, they could probably get 18/25-26 out of it anyway. But a 2.0L EB that's well tuned with a DSG will probably be rated 21/30 like the new Equinox but have an extra 50-60 ponies at its disposal when needed. So, that's the future. 2.7 V6? Do you have a link to that? Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The Mazda CX-7 with the 2.3L Turbo I4 has received complaints because A) turbo takes a bit to kick up, so it's low on initial torque launch, B) it's a thirsty one. I'm not sure what they tried to accomplish by offering that engine other than maybe they didn't wish to use Fords Duratec 3.0L V6 since it was getting long in the tooth. This year, Mazda is offering a 2.5L I-4 with 177HP as the base engine on the CX7. I'm not sure what the numbers are, but I do not think that the fuel economy will be that much improved considering it's a lil' porky anyways, and those 177 horses are screaming. There's a certain economy of scale that you could offer a less powerful engine, but what good will it do when your sacrificing fuel economy to log all that weight around. Personally, anything over 3500lbs deserves a V6. I do see a future Egoboosted I-4 260-280HP, and I also see a possiblity of the optional engine being a 3.5L Egoboost. with 340-350. Although I can't picture the Edge with anything less than 220HP. I think anything less than that will come at the cost of fuel economy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 2.7 V6? Do you have a link to that? Sounds good. I don't have links to it, but I remember it being talked about here a while back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 2.7 V6? Do you have a link to that? Sounds good. It was actually mention by Barb Samardzich in an interview several months ago. It would be based on the Duratec 3.5 and sort of a low cost alternative to a 4 cylinder EcoBoost. You won't be finding manual transmission in many Ford product in the future. The 2009 F150 has no M/T and the rumor is the next Super Duties will have no M/T. If PowerShift is as good as they say it is, I could see the M/T dieing in both the Fiesta and the Focus within a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You should toss a Mazda CX-7 in there for comparison....esp if you are looking at Venza. CX-7 has a turbo 4 with gas direct injection rated at 244 HP, and has a 6 speed auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 You should toss a Mazda CX-7 in there for comparison....esp if you are looking at Venza. CX-7 has a turbo 4 with gas direct injection rated at 244 HP, and has a 6 speed auto. Test drove one before I got the Explorer... the CX7 drinks PREMIUM. It's like your wife having a $50/week Starbucks habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 The CX-7 from the firewall forward is largely C1. The C1 front can not handle a transversely mounted v6 in a mass production application without MAJOR revisions. The CX-7 is one of Mazda's first attempts at Ford Global's modular platform initiative. The front is C1, the back is largely a redone back end from a mazda 6 wagon and the middle is, well, make a guess. As a result, it can't fit a v6, its heavier than it has to be, but it was less expensive to design. The 2.5 I4 is a decent attempt at both reducing production costs and increasing fuel mileage. I don't know what the verdict will be, however. As for the edge, the new 2.5L, coupled with a 6AT, would be, at best, serviceable. You could up the final drive ratio to make acceleration better (which should be the biggest issue) but you wouldn't be able to make the overdrives any deeper in the auto due to the limited torque of the engine, so you wouldn't see a vast improvement in highway mileage. If they redid the 2.5L's cylinder heads and respeced the cam and ECU and redid the setup for direct gas injection, you'd have an engine that roughly at 190 hp and 190 lbs of torque. That amount of power would be about where you want to be with that car for a base engine. You wouldn't have to tweak the final drive ratio either. That would be good for roughly an improvement of a couple mpg on the highway and maybe one or two in the city. However, doing all that to that engine would be expensive, making the I4 roughly as expensive per unit as the V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Test drove one before I got the Explorer... the CX7 drinks PREMIUM. It's like your wife having a $50/week Starbucks habit. The cost difference between premium and regular for the average driver is about ONE venti white mocha per week, NOT $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 If the wife has a $50 Starbucks habit, she better be driving that CX-7 to the gym or the husband is going to lose his intentines if she rides him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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