Should the Mustang Have Gone This Route

[BlackHorse]

F$%^&K Blackhorse, I'm trying to be nice and you take offense to "second fiddle"....jesus man TOUGHEN UP.....question is does Ford. or should Ford think about taking a more Genesis direction, exactly what dirrection is that? less sales numbers? Blandness, 50lbs less curbweight through ...dare I say it a less SAFE vehicle? YES, the Mustang could be lighter...fact...lets raise MSRPS throught utilizing aluminum and composites....and aleinate some customers. Could it be more powerful...YES, and guess what its coming....could it be smaller, YES, but once again at what cost....and to emulate a vehicle by a Korean manufacturer with ZERO history? I dont question that Ford has its finger on the Mustangs pulse...after all, it is probably their most reconizable nameplate....I respect your questions/ suggestions, however my money will be on the Mustang surviving LONG after Hyundai has left a market they cannot make enough inroads into....PPS...you MAY be pleasently surprized at how the 2011 answers some of your queries....my guess is it becomes a more "modern" vehicle....a little more High tech.

 

Hey that's better. It's not about toughening up though deanh. I just don't see the need to insult anyone over the car they buy. But as for the rest of that answer, you address the question. Thanks. Good stuff.

Edited November 6, 2009 by BlackHorse

[BlackHorse]

feisty friday.....hell, here I am ranting about a Mustang, and i'd rather have an RS Focus......FWD and all.....so, am I a techie?

 

It's a pussy car. LOL It's 2nd fiddle to a used V6 Mustang at that.

 

 

PS, that was sarcasm. But maybe that helps you see what I mean.

Edited November 6, 2009 by BlackHorse

[Deanh]

Hey that's better. It's not about toughening up though deanh. I just see the need to insult anyone over the car they buy. But as for the rest of that answer, you address the question. Thanks. Good stuff.

kinda humorous Mustang threads Blackhorse...man do people get passionate.....hmmm, wheres my hip flask.....lol! next up....."Wheres the Bronco...." lol......

[chiefstang]

I'm not talking about making the Mustang into a Hyundai chief.

 

 

 

I still found myself wondering if Ford should have taken or perhaps should take a more Genesis coupe approach to the Mustang.

 

 

Really?

 

 

 

If the thread bothers you that much, go get on another thread.

 

I LOVE this thread.

[BlackHorse]

kinda humorous Mustang threads Blackhorse...man do people get passionate.....hmmm, wheres my hip flask.....lol! next up....."Wheres the Bronco...." lol......

 

Yes they do. I still remember the debate about Mustang vs. RX8. That was a good one.

 

Where is that POS Bronco anyway? LOL

 

By the way, 22K on my Wrangler, nearly 2 years old,. . . zero problerms. Never had a single issue, never been to the dealership for any warranty work. God I love it when Consumer Reports is wrong as hell. lol

[chiefstang]

feisty friday.....hell, here I am ranting about a Mustang, and i'd rather have an RS Focus......FWD and all.....so, am I a techie?

 

Nah. A bit of a pinhead, and kind of a nerd.

[Deanh]

It's a pussy car. LOL It's 2nd fiddle to a used V6 Mustang at that.

 

 

PS, that was sarcasm. But maybe that helps you see what I mean.

heh heh, I know...Cheers. I personally think ( and the responses may prove the point ) Mustang afficaidos are traditionalists....dont mess too much with their baby...and for that reason it sells well in its segment...change it too much, and not only will you antaghonize/ alienate the masses but THERE WILL BE BLOOD ON THE STREETS TONIGHT!

[BlackHorse]

Really?

 

 

Uh, yeah really. How do you see "take a more Genesis coupe "approach" as saying "lets make the Mustang into a Hyundai?"

 

You really gotta work on those comprehension skills bro.

[chiefstang]

Drink one for me.

 

<sigh> Fair enough. Have a good weekend, and I'll need that lunch money again on Monday.

 

 

 

..... Bro.

Edited November 6, 2009 by chiefstang

[Deanh]

Nah. A bit of a pinhead, and kind of a nerd.

oh come on, dont tell me you wouldnt like to take a spin....300 hp in a focus...more than one way to skin the performance cat other than a V8, and thats what I think blackhorse is attempting to relay....personally, and I'll get ROASTED for this, I prefer tossable smaller cars, Mustang is too big for my tastes...LOVE the car, just feels too bulky for my tastes...anmd since my 88 it most definitely HAS grown....I realize why, but..........

[Deanh]

Yes they do. I still remember the debate about Mustang vs. RX8. That was a good one.

 

Where is that POS Bronco anyway? LOL

 

By the way, 22K on my Wrangler, nearly 2 years old,. . . zero problerms. Never had a single issue, never been to the dealership for any warranty work. God I love it when Consumer Reports is wrong as hell. lol

Wrangler is another icon, watchout, Cheifstang may start a thread "Should Jeep pursue the Kia Sportage..........." snicker......now, my guess is your response would be the same as some witnessed here.....defensive....

[rkisler]

Turns out I have a bit of experience on this issue; let me try to distill a lot of black binders into a few random comments:

 

1. The Mustang is a very unique vehicle configuration. It is not a coupe version of the 4-door (like the Genesis and the Nissan G), but a short-coupled four-seater with a sloping roof. Otherwise it's not a Mustang. The short-coupling means that there is some sacrifice in rear seat package, but you have to do that to accomodate the trademark roof. The stance on the Mustang is wide and aggressive. It actually makes the Mustang harder to create from a common platform; if you start from a 4-door, it ends up looking like a 2-door version of the sedan, or it becomes too large (e.g. Challenger).

 

2. Because of the aggressive, wide stance, many people assume the Mustang is heavy. It is. But, as Richard pointed out, a lot of cars in this category are "dense".

 

3. The key question you have to answer is "do I need a V8?" There is a very real possibility of developing a very tidy, great sports sedan with only 6-cylinder engines (gee, sorta like the BMW 3-series when even the M was a 6). But, after knock-down-drag-out fights, nearly everyone agrees that V8 and Mustang go together, even if the V8 becomes more limited over time.

 

4. The emotions run high over the GT with a V8. And it is true that this model is the "image leader" for the carline. But the volume and the heart of the Mustang market is with the V6. The V6 driver can have a car that looks pretty much like the V8, yet with a lower cost of entry, better fuel economy, and lower insurance rates. The addition of the 3.7l is way overdue; it was programmed ages ago but was postponed numerous times.

 

5. I think we also know that the Mustang is not FWD, even if you add AWD. But even if everyone knows this, it was still the subject of huge fights inside Ford.

 

6. Mustang buyers are very diverse, ranging from young to empty nesters looking for a fun car. It is very rare that a vehicle has emotion to this wide a spectrum.

 

7. Because of its uniqueness, the Mustang is hard to copy by Hyundai, the Chinese, or even Toyota's feeble attempt with an earlier Celica which has disappeared even as the Mustang has survived.

 

8. Mustang has great brand recognition; everybody knows what it is and everyone associates it with Ford.

 

9. Mustang is successful in markets (especially California) where Ford is just holding on until Ford has some interesting small cars to sell.

 

My belief is the Mustang is what it is. It's a true American icon. There might come a time when this kind of car is no longer relevant. And, if that happens, put it to sleep. But don't try to turn it into something it ain't.

[jpvbs]

So to summarize, the general consensus is that the Mustang is absolute perfection, handed down by god himself. There is nothing any other vehicle does that has any merit and anyone that buys anything else has some cognitive disability that prevents them from being enlightened. I believe this is the same theory the Bob Lutz has based his many recent successes on.

[Versa-Tech]

What exactly would be the weight difference between the D37 and the new 5.0? I'm guessing somewhere in the range of 50-60 lbs at the most? Is that worth the trade-off in power for slightly (almost unnoticable) better weight distribution?

Yes. When your paying thousands for weight saved here and there, starting off 60 lbs lighter is a big deal. It's not just the weight though. The D37 will have alot more space for plumbing which will allow for more exotic induction and exhaust solutions. Also, the smaller displacement would allow for competition in lower displacement classes. With a GR40 suspension, rear transaxle conversion, and some composite bodywork, I bet I could bring the weight down to 3000 lbs (50/50) with factory interior and AC. Probably 2600 lbs (46/54) full race.

[Deanh]

So to summarize, the general consensus is that the Mustang is absolute perfection, handed down by god himself. There is nothing any other vehicle does that has any merit and anyone that buys anything else has some cognitive disability that prevents them from being enlightened. I believe this is the same theory the Bob Lutz has based his many recent successes on.

absolutely not...its loved warts and all....and many have taken aim and missed...so there IS something to be said of the recipe

[jpd80]

My belief is the Mustang is what it is. It's a true American icon. There might come a time when this kind of car is no longer relevant. And, if that happens, put it to sleep. But don't try to turn it into something it ain't.

 

Well said.

 

So to summarize, the general consensus is that the Mustang is absolute perfection, handed down by god himself. There is nothing any other vehicle does that has any merit and anyone that buys anything else has some cognitive disability that prevents them from being enlightened. I believe this is the same theory the Bob Lutz has based his many recent successes on.

 

That's a totally baseless interpretation of what Austin said.

The Mustang can adapt to changing times to a certain degree but if it were to lose its uniqueness,

I think most would agree it should be withdrawn rather than disappoint fans by changing what it is.

Edited November 6, 2009 by jpd80

[ironhorse]

I'm guilty of kinda calling the Genesis coupe a Mustang for pussies. Yea it's crude,but the truth in my opinion..

[jpvbs]

absolutely not...its loved warts and all....and many have taken aim and missed...so there IS something to be said of the recipe

 

That's great if it was sales were on fire, but lately they aren't. Everyone says, "wait for '11," but what if that doesn't do it?

[Michael Reynolds]

Now that at least is a well thought out response. Maybe you could try something like that chief. Too much for you? Unfortunately it's not the answer to the question Michael. The question is not what's wrong with the Genesis. The question is should ford take the mustang in that direction i.e. smaller and more nimble. Things like interior issues and break feel are apples to oranges. Ford is going to come up with their own interior obviously, their own brakes and so on.

 

As far as I'm concerned almost every vehicle on the road today (outside of a Lotus) could stand to use a little weight, and that most definitely includes the Mustang. At any rate I responded how I did because I found the Genesis coupe a very average vehicle to utilize as an example of what reduced curb weight is capable of.

 

Where you lost me in your response was that brake feel is apples to oranges between the two vehicles. IMHO braking along with steering and overall chassis dynamics are an integral part of what makes a car feel nimble.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Michael Reynolds

[Deanh]

That's great if it was sales were on fire, but lately they aren't. Everyone says, "wait for '11," but what if that doesn't do it?

newsflash....NOTHING is setting the world on fire right now.....2011 ordering starts next month...of course Ford could always just leave the car alone....i personally think its GREAT to see them being PRO-active in a down market...benefits may not be reaped initially, but watch....the competition may be playing catchup when the market turns

Edited November 6, 2009 by Deanh

[jpvbs]

newsflash....NOTHING is setting the world on fire right now.....2011 ordering starts next month...of course Ford could always just leave the car alone....i personally think its GREAT to see them being PRO-active in a down market...benefits may not be reapped initially, but watch....the competition may be playing catchup when the market turns

 

I am aware of the situation, but it seems they should be better considering the 2010 refresh.

[jpd80]

newsflash....NOTHING is setting the world on fire right now.....2011 ordering starts next month...of course Ford could always just leave the car alone....i personally think its GREAT to see them being PRO-active in a down market...benefits may not be reapped initially, but watch....the competition may be playing ctchup when the market turns

OK, last monthe Mustang was like 4700 sales to Camaro's 8,000.

Given the Camaro is relatively newer to the market and the wow factor is still there, I think the Mustang

is doing well - a perception that it's cheaper to produce and has more surprises in store for 2011 model.

By comparison, Camaro has all it jewelery on display and no more to give whilst the '11 Mustang will thrill.

[RichardJensen]

Mustang = better slalom, better skidpad, better 1/4, better 0-60, 100lbs heavier, 6" longer.

 

So the question boys:

 

 

Should the Mustang be 100lbs lighter and 6" shorter?

 

My answer: It's an irrelevant question.

[Deanh]

OK, last monthe Mustang was like 4700 sales to Camaro's 8,000.

Given the Camaro is relatively newer to the market and the wow factor is still there, I think the Mustang

is doing well - a perception that it's cheaper to produce and has more surprises in store for 2011 model.

By comparison, Camaro has all it jewelery on display and no more to give whilst the '11 Mustang will thrill.

Camaro won those extra sales on styling and afew Chevy loyalists, I'm seeing more and more...car STILL does nothing for me, and i think the hot wheels look will NOT age gracefully.....truth be told though, Mustang must get a little more adventurous in the styling dept if they wish to compete, styling sells first, the drivetrains are icing....

[RichardJensen]

they should be better considering the 2010 refresh.

what $30k superfluity -is- selling well these days?