TomServo92 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Not sure where I can get a 315HP Mustang right now. Late 2010 Spring maybe. That's a negative. The current Mustang GT makes 315HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Quick quiz: How much power does the 2010 Mustang GT make? Dang RJ. Beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Quick quiz: How much power does the 2010 Mustang GT make? He said 315HP/30MPG. I assumed he was talking about the 2011 Mustang. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 He said 315HP/30MPG. I assumed he was talking about the 2011 Mustang. :reading: And YOU said you couldn't find a 315hp Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Your arrogance shows up again. Others have pointed out that your world class is only in your mind. How true, I was in Europe for 27 months while serving in the Army, and seeing a BMW 7 Series being used as a Taxi (although nice one at that) and MB's running around with steel wheels and cloth interiors knocks down their cache quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) Why do some Americans have such an inferiority complex? The grass is always green on the other side, it seems....to some at least. It's as if any import is better than ours! Imported designer cloths, wines, cars etc. etc. There is plenty of inferior imported junk....and not just from China either. And there is some pretty cool stuff from every continent.....ours included. Even when American cars are the equal to, or exceed the bench mark "world class" cars, there is the pretentious insinuation that the elusive qualities of said vehicle makes it superior. There ARE few American cars (or any product for that matter) that don't have a price point. How many Bentleys do they sell for $300,000+? Does Lincoln need to have a $300,000 Continental? There hasn't been a truly exclusive Lincoln since the 1957 Mark II. Ford has had the GT (40), the Saleen S7 (not sure if there is anything "Ford" about it though) http://www.saleen.com/saleen_s7_main.htm Edited December 26, 2009 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 There was a time in American auto history when we had car companies that built only luxury "money is no issue" vehicles like Packard, Dusenberg, Cord, Auburn, Pierce-Arrow, Peerless etc... Where are they now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Victims of the Depression: Pierce-Arrow (d. 1938), Stutz (d. 1935), and Duesenberg (d.1937) were the ne plus ultra of American luxury and the Depression killed all three of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 There was a time in American auto history when we had car companies that built only luxury "money is no issue" vehicles like Packard, Dusenberg, Cord, Auburn, Pierce-Arrow, Peerless etc... Where are they now? Why can or why does Europe make such a car and not the USA? Why are so few USA made cars exported, but so many Asian and Europe platforms used by the American 3? A country like Germany with only 84 million people can support three high price luxury platforms but the USA with 350 million people does not. We should also add Canada and Mexico in the mix too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 And YOU said you couldn't find a 315hp Mustang. I'm convinced that you don't have the time to read and comprehend all of the posts to understand what the primary topics are in a conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 We should also add Canada and Mexico in the mix too. Hell, we're the only G8 country without our own car company....we had a tiny one (ZENN), but it stopped making it's own cars earlier this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 I'm convinced that you don't have the time to read and comprehend all of the posts to understand what the primary topics are in a conversation. Don't be such a snob. You said you couldn't find a 315 HP Mustang, when in fact it's been around for awhile......andthe new one will be 412 HP. That makes you, ummm........uninformed. If you look at the TITLE it's about Toyota being frustrated about recent negative media attention. IMHO it's well deserved and evens out the playing field on their so called superiority. Anyone who is so concerned about superiority must be lacking in certain areas LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Don't be such a snob. You said you couldn't find a 315 HP Mustang, when in fact it's been around for awhile......andthe new one will be 412 HP. That makes you, ummm........uninformed. If you look at the TITLE it's about Toyota being frustrated about recent negative media attention. IMHO it's well deserved and evens out the playing field on their so called superiority. Anyone who is so concerned about superiority must be lacking in certain areas LOL. What type of Mustang where we discussing? :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBear Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Victims of the Depression: Pierce-Arrow (d. 1938), Stutz (d. 1935), and Duesenberg (d.1937) were the ne plus ultra of American luxury and the Depression killed all three of them. Actually, Packard and Duesenberg remained profitable through the Depression. One of the Duesenberg brothers died, and it literally took the wind out of the surviving brother- he shut the operation down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 A country like Germany with only 84 million people can support three high price luxury platforms but the USA with 350 million people does not. We should also add Canada and Mexico in the mix too. Okay, there aren't 350M people in the US, and if you count Canada & Mexico the population is closer to 450M. Secondly, VW owns Audi. Third, the Nazis kept MB in business during the depression. Since then they've sold all kinds of crap cars that would tarnish their reputation stateside Fourth, BMW wasn't a luxury car company until the early 80s. They also sell a ton of crap cars in Europe that aren't sold stateside. Fifth, if you aren't aware of the tons of money that was dumped into West European industry after WWII, then you need to read up on your history. Finally, European governments love subsidizing their car companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm convinced that you don't have the time to read and comprehend all of the posts to understand what the primary topics are in a conversation. That's an incredibly stupid statement to make, considering you're the one who asserted you couldn't buy a 315hp Mustang, and who asserted that the Edge and MKX were made in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) Okay, there aren't 350M people in the US, and if you count Canada & Mexico the population is closer to 450M. Secondly, VW owns Audi. Third, the Nazis kept MB in business during the depression. Since then they've sold all kinds of crap cars that would tarnish their reputation stateside Fourth, BMW wasn't a luxury car company until the early 80s. They also sell a ton of crap cars in Europe that aren't sold stateside. Fifth, if you aren't aware of the tons of money that was dumped into West European industry after WWII, then you need to read up on your history. Finally, European governments love subsidizing their car companies. 1. Estimated people in USA legal (310M) and illegal (20M)l and visitors (4M), not just citizens. I rounded up to 350M. However, the 450M in North America makes the question more difficult to answer. 2. Ford owns Lincoln and GM owns Cadillac. Unsure of the point you are making. BMW owns Mini and M-B owns Smart. 3. Crap cars are/were made by everyone at one time. Some companies still make crap. 4. Good point. How can M-B and BMW make so many different cars and Lincoln has 3 cars (to include the TC) and 3 S/CUVs? Cadillac has 3 cars and 2 C/SUVs. It appears to me to be a huge difference in products. 5. Has the Feds here supported the automobile industries here too? So, are you saying that the Nazis and European governments since the 1940s are the reason why they have so many upper level cars? :shades: Our Fed and State governments has directly and indirectly supported the American 3. Are you suggesting that the European or German governments are unfairly supporting their automobile industry and flooding our market? Richard. Again, my points and questions are: Look at how many different cars, engines and transmissions that Audi, BMW and M-B makes compared to the USA high end automobile companies Cadillac and Lincoln. Why can they have so many and not the USA? It appears that the best platforms that GM and Ford uses and will use comes from Asia or Europe and not the USA. Outside of trucks, there will not be a true USA platform in a few years. Edited December 28, 2009 by mettech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 1. Estimated people in USA legal (310M) and illegal (20M)l and visitors (4M), not just citizens. I rounded up to 350M. However, the 450M in North America makes the question more difficult to answer. Census counts illegals as well as legals. 2. Ford owns Lincoln and GM owns Cadillac. Unsure of the point you are making. BMW owns Mini and M-B owns Smart. The point is that VW subsidizes Audi during lean years. As do the crap cars made by BMW & MB. How can M-B and BMW make so many different cars and Lincoln has 3 cars (to include the TC) and 3 S/CUVs? Because Lincoln doesn't make cars with cloth seats and steel wheels to be used as taxi cabs. You are being purposefully obtuse: you, on the one hand, decry Lincoln for its tiny lineup, and on the other hand ask why Lincoln makes only luxury vehicles (which is not the case with MB & BMW). 5. Has the Feds here supported the automobile industries here too? At nowhere near the scale, or for the length of time that various European governments subsidized their auto industries. Heck, Audi is #1, a luxury company that is barely 30 years old and #2 still partially owned by the state of Bavaria. So, are you saying that the Nazis and European governments since the 1940s are the reason why they have so many upper level cars? It's the reason why there aren't any luxury marques in the US anymore. It appears that the best platforms that GM and Ford uses and will use comes from Asia or Europe and not the USA. Outside of trucks, there will not be a true USA platform in a few years. Nor will there be a true EU platform (C2 partially engineered in the US, CD4 engineered in the US), or a true Asia platform. Bottom line: As the length of this reply, and the breadth covered attests, you're engaged in as scattering as much smoke as possible to disguise the fact that your position is little more than, "I don't like these cars, therefore, they're bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Census counts illegals as well as legals. The point is that VW subsidizes Audi during lean years. As do the crap cars made by BMW & MB. Because Lincoln doesn't make cars with cloth seats and steel wheels to be used as taxi cabs. You are being purposefully obtuse: you, on the one hand, decry Lincoln for its tiny lineup, and on the other hand ask why Lincoln makes only luxury vehicles (which is not the case with MB & BMW). At nowhere near the scale, or for the length of time that various European governments subsidized their auto industries. Heck, Audi is #1, a luxury company that is barely 30 years old and #2 still partially owned by the state of Bavaria. It's the reason why there aren't any luxury marques in the US anymore. Nor will there be a true EU platform (C2 partially engineered in the US, CD4 engineered in the US), or a true Asia platform. Bottom line: As the length of this reply, and the breadth covered attests, you're engaged in as scattering as much smoke as possible to disguise the fact that your position is little more than, "I don't like these cars, therefore, they're bad." ? What the hell is wrong with you? I own 3 Ford products and before my Sable, I had a '96 Continental. But here is a quote from Edmunds that sums up my point. "The MKT's interior features luxurious materials and an understated design that approaches European standards." Edmunds MKT review. It appears that the American car companies seem to advertise their products toward " Japanese reliability", European engineering, ride and handling". How many times have you seen that type of comparison from the American 3? Inversely, how often do you see an Asian or European product that refers to it as "American like"? There's a reason for that Richard. There's a reason for that. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 How many times have you seen that type of comparison from the American 3? Inversely, how often do you see an Asian or European product that refers to it as "American like"? There's a reason for that Richard. There's a reason for that. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) how often do you see an Asian or European product that refers to it as "American like"? Watch their conduct, not their words: BMW added SUVs to their lineup after the Navigator. Toyota adapted their SUVs for Lexus. Toyota & Honda bumped up the Accord & Camry to Taurus size. The imports all built SUVs and CUVs in response to the popularity of vehicles that were built by American companies for the American market. Toyota is currently building a fullsize truck (as is Nissan). All the imports added cupholders BMW has steadily added American luxury items to what were bare-bones sports coupes and sedans (climate control, power everything, etc.) The Europeans & Japanese know how much Americans loathe their industrial output (in general) so they certainly won't admit that they're copying the domestics. But, guess what? They are. ---- Thanks for playing. Edited December 28, 2009 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Watch their conduct, not their words: BMW added SUVs to their lineup after the Navigator. Toyota adapted their SUVs for Lexus. Toyota & Honda bumped up the Accord & Camry to Taurus size. The imports all built SUVs and CUVs in response to the popularity of vehicles that were built by American companies for the American market. Toyota is currently building a fullsize truck (as is Nissan). All the imports added cupholders BMW has steadily added American luxury items to what were bare-bones sports coupes and sedans (climate control, power everything, etc.) The Europeans & Japanese know how much Americans loathe their industrial output (in general) so they certainly won't admit that they're copying the domestics. But, guess what? They are. ---- Thanks for playing. Until next time, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Dang, what a bickering he said she said threaf this has turned into. My thoughts, BMW, M-B and the like German cars, do have some great cars. They were built for a particular reason and price point. At the same time, Ford has some equally good cars built for their own particular reason and price point. Each vehicle was made for a different demographic and attract different buyers. This does not mean a German vehicle is better than a domestic vehicle. Each are simply good or better at what they were intended for. Keeping up would be a correct way to view the difference between a Taurus and a BMW 5, 6 or 7 Series. Ford builds excellent cars and trucks for the mass market. And a few products for the lower end of the automotive enthusiasts market. But there is nothing that Ford makes that is a "world class leader". Maybe one day Lincoln will get such a product. This was posted in another thread, but check the results. Looks like the MKS competes fairly well against the imports. This was done in my neck of the woods. http://www.6versus8.com/showdown/intro/index.html It would be nice to see a USA Ford product that could be world class. It's disappointing to see the best that the USA has comes from GM with the Corvette and CTS. :reading: How about F-Series trucks? Oh wait, it can't be world class in your books because it's too big for some countries roads. Sorry, but that's a lame excuse, and doesn't disqualify the F-Series as world class. ssssssssh, keep it quiet, but their is a certain "little" car right around the corner, that could well be considered world class...oh, and I'll throw out the GT500 a close....as for BMW's, owned three, all three had issues, only thing I would rate as exceptional were handling balance, structural integrity and service bills..... My friend has a BMW 330xi. The car is well built, nice and sporty. But the thing is constantly in the shop. He's dumped at least $5K into the front end alone during the last 3-4yrs. Toyota Camry? :shades: F-150? If someone asked 5 years ago if there was an American car at the top of its class I wouldn't have any to point to. There are so many quality/safe/reliable/fast/affordable American cars on the market today it is hard to take the Pilot's comment seriously. If you want to spend $42,000 on a BMW 335i coupe /w only 300hp and 26mpg good for you, but for most people who want to spend $20-$30,000 they can get a Ford Mustang /w 315hp and 30mpg. You're paying a lot of $$$$ for worse performance and efficiency of a supposed superior vehicle. World Class American cars -Cadillac CTS-V (It beat the MB E-class AMG for $40,000 less!) -Corvette ZR-1 (Fastest production vehicle on nurburgring) -Ford F-150 Raptor (80mph in the desert / Competes in the Baja 1000 / $38,000 (less then a Tundra LTD) -GMC Sierra -Ford Mustang GT500 (Most affordable $/Hp and soon to outrun an M3 on a track) -Ford Fusion Hybrid/Mercury Milan Hybrid (41mpg (better then VW's TDI system) / Durability & quality levels unsurpassed by Toyota / Motor trend car of the year) -Ford Fiesta ( 40mpg / affordable price / class-leading handling / one of the best selling vehicles world wide ) -Lincoln MKT (365hp and 23mpg better MPG then a BMW 550i / automated parking / adaptive cruise control /refrigerator / collision warning and braking support / MyKey / Sync ) -Ford Ka My next car is a Cadillac CTS-V and for $65,000 /w 550hp I can't get a better car for the money. BMW M5 500hp $85,500 MB E-class AMG 518hp $85,750 Audi S6 435hp $76,100 Lexus IS-F 416hp $57,600 I'd replace the GMC Sierra with the F150 or F-Series as a whole, even with the horrible 6.0L PSD issues. Quick quiz: How much power does the 2010 Mustang GT make? That's a negative. The current Mustang GT makes 315HP. Funny mettech can't even acknowledge he asked where he could get a 315hp Mustang, then when shown, he reverts to denial and excuses. As the length of this reply, and the breadth covered attests, you're engaged in as scattering as much smoke as possible to disguise the fact that your position is little more than, "I don't like these cars, therefore, they're bad." Sounds about right. Can't say Ford has a ton ow world class vehicles, but neither do any of the makes mettech specified. Sure each make he provided has maybe 1-3 world class or close to world class vehicles, but I'd have to say, Ford itself also produces 1-3 world class vehicles themselves. So what was the point of all this arguing again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 LINK - KWTX TV SOUTHLAKE (December 28, 2009)—Four people are dead after a Toyota crashed through a fence, hit a tree and landed upside down in a pond Saturday in the affluent Dallas suburb of Southlake... ...The car was a 2008 Toyota Avalon, which is among the models recalled last month over concerns about sudden acceleration caused by gas pedals getting stuck on floor mats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) deleted Edited December 28, 2009 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.