NY Times Article Outlining Ford's Climb and Focus

[Anthony]

Back on topic - does anyone actually agree with Mulally's idea to have sheet metal exactly the same for all regions?

 

My opinion? Sheet metal yes, fascias and trim (and to a lesser extent interiors) I can see having differences regional. Enough styling differences can be made with trim and fascias to differentiate between regions without breaking the bank with sheetmetal changes.

[RichardJensen]

I thought I was a Hyundai lover? Now I'm really confused.

 

Re-read your posts over the last 5 years. My post to you would be considered "Jensen-Lite" in comparison to how you reply to some people when they do not agree with you. But at least you won't stoop to my level and accuse me of kissing Chrysler's butt backhandedly while telling me you won't stoop to my level by accusing me of kissing Chrysler's butt. Phew!

Go to hell.

[jpd80]

How about we hold our powder until the global Focus reveal, it should be a good litmus test anyway.

Then let's have it regarding regional styling for volume product doing battle with Asian car makers.

Let's see if Ford can make a style broad enough to appeal to a wider audience and increase sales.

Let's see if they pull it off before launching into debate.

[Hugh]

I admit I may have been hasty with the Bangle look. I forgot about the Volvo S60 IIRC. Either way, can't wait for Monday. Does anyone know if the Focus will be introduced @ 0800 or 1600 According to the press schedule. Lincoln has Tuesday Afternoon.

[RichardJensen]

How about we hold our powder until the global Focus reveal, it should be a good litmus test anyway.

Then let's have it regarding regional styling for volume product doing battle with Asian car makers.

Let's see if Ford can make a style broad enough to appeal to a wider audience and increase sales.

Let's see if they pull it off before launching into debate.

The closer the look to the Fiesta, the better.

 

For Ford, I think the vehicles need to be more regionalized the more expensive they get, for the simple reason that Ford is not considered an 'American' car in Europe. None of the Fords sold in Europe (at Ford dealerships at least) are built in Europe the US. It doesn't 'represent' the same buyer class in Europe as in the U.S.

 

The counter example of Honda is refuted by its small presence in Europe and its US-spec and EU-spec Accords. The counter examples of BMW & Mercedes is overturned because these vehicles are bought by Americans because they are German.

 

No one buys a US Ford because it's 'European', nor (per the experience of VW) are a sufficient number of entry-level US customers interested in a 'European' car.

 

I would venture to guess that a global design language would work best if it pleased US customers without exceeding what is considered 'good taste' in chrome for Europe.

 

The converse is not practical, IMO, although I fear it is the direction Ford is pursuing based on a temporary position of strength at FoE when Mulally arrived.

Edited January 10, 2010 by RichardJensen

[danup]

"'There’s nothing revolutionary about selling the same car around the world,” says John Casesa, an industry consultant. 'Toyota does it.'"

 

Isn't this demonstrably untrue? Toyota's JDM framework is basically a shot-by-shot remake of the worst excesses of GM in America, the only difference being that it works for them. They've got Daihatsu, Toyota, and Lexus; Daihatsu makes a number of basically identical kei cars that fight for market share not only with each other but with Toyota; Toyota, meanwhile, fights with newly established Lexus for the luxury market with a number of legacy cars like the Crown/Century/Mark series. The Camry is an also-ran in Japan—I didn't see a single one in ten days there a few months ago. It's an also-ran because it is not built for the Japanese market—it's an American car designed to American tastes.

 

There's something to be said for streamlining, but Toyota as an example is only useful for people who are trying to claim, I don't know, that Oldsmobile shouldn't have been abandoned—it is a counterclaim to the One Ford idea, not corroborating evidence for it.

[RichardJensen]

Well, the Hi-Lux and a few other things are sold globally (but not in the US). Toyota grew its marketshare stateside (as did Honda) by coming up with US-exclusive midsizers. I don't like seeing Toyota pointed out as an outstanding example of global product sharing (as the Sienna, Tacoma, 4Runner, Sequoia, Tundra, Camry and Avalon are ALL NA exclusive).

 

At Honda, the Pilot, Accord, Odyssey and IIRC Element are all US exclusive.

 

Ford, I think, can get by with a global Fusion/Mondeo, if only because the two are about the same size now. To protect that, Ford needs to have a larger option stateside, the Taurus.

 

That will curb the pressure to upsize the Fusion to meet US demand for fullsize sedans (compare the Accord & the bloating of the Camry)

Edited January 10, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

None of the Fords sold in Europe (at Ford dealerships at least) are built in Europe.

Huh? Fords built in Germany, Belgium, Poland and Romania are sold in Europe.

[RichardJensen]

Huh? Fords built in Germany, Belgium, Poland and Romania are sold in Europe.

... and Spain and Russia and Britain.

 

Duh. That should be "none of the Fords sold in Europe (at least at Ford dealerships) are built in the US"

 

But I tell you what, the trade in gray market 5.0L Mustangs will be pretty stout this summer.

Edited January 10, 2010 by RichardJensen

[rmc523]

I think we'll be seeing more of that in future Lincolns. The MKT already has a bit of the "rear-hunch" albeit less pronounced as the Concept C. It may become part of the Lincoln design language going forward.

 

I hope not.....I AM a HUGE fan of the rear lightbar concept, but not of the hunchback but.

 

How about we hold our powder until the global Focus reveal, it should be a good litmus test anyway.

Then let's have it regarding regional styling for volume product doing battle with Asian car makers.

Let's see if Ford can make a style broad enough to appeal to a wider audience and increase sales.

Let's see if they pull it off before launching into debate.

 

I agree, with the Focus being the first truly global car under 'One Ford,' it'll show us how Ford plans on differentiating vehicles around the world.

 

Ford, I think, can get by with a global Fusion/Mondeo, if only because the two are about the same size now. To protect that, Ford needs to have a larger option stateside, the Taurus.

 

That will curb the pressure to upsize the Fusion to meet US demand for fullsize sedans (compare the Accord & the bloating of the Camry)

 

+1 Anything larger than Fusion/Mondeo will/should likely be regionally exclusive.

[jpd80]

Mondeo interior feels every bit as massive as Taurus and Falcon inside, the canopy has a big effect

on the spacious feel inside. Not knocking the Fusion but it does feel like a Mazda 6, a tad smaller.

I wonder whether the combined Fusion/Mondeo will go for a shorter wheelbase or stick with 112.2".

 

The interior space of the next generation Fusion/Mondeo may well approach that of Taurus and Falcon,

what an interesting dilemma that would be for Ford.

[Blueblood]

GM's had as many CEOs in the past year as Ford has had in the past 10...

 

 

 

I'm not saying it is a Mustang, but I showed a picture of a MUSTANG with the same exact wheels....

 

Those are NOT Fusion wheels, they are the 18" fanblades off the Mustang.

[Blueblood]

1) I doubt it, and 2) the Focus was slowly decontented, it wasn't at first.

 

Correct, and as the years went by it was further cheapened/decontented, while the opposite happened in Europe.

[Blueblood]

Mondeo interior feels every bit as massive as Taurus and Falcon inside, the canopy has a big effect

on the spacious feel inside. Not knocking the Fusion but it does feel like a Mazda 6, a tad smaller.

I wonder whether the combined Fusion/Mondeo will go for a shorter wheelbase or stick with 112.2".

 

The interior space of the next generation Fusion/Mondeo may well approach that of Taurus and Falcon,

what an interesting dilemma that would be for Ford.

 

 

That's interesting considering at the LA auto show last month I had much more room in every dimension in the Fusion over the Taurus/MKS.

 

That tall seating position with the new roof really does a bad job on interior space. I'm 6'1" and in the backseat of the MKS my head hits the roof, and there's no leg/foot-room whatsoever. Plenty of space in the Fusion. I think the D3 has a short wheelbase for a car of it's size which doesn't help..

[mettech]

Go to hell.

 

And this concludes another episode of "Richard Making Friends".

 

Richard, you would fit right in over at the "Employee Forum". :reading:

 

Lighten up a little and stop attacking so much.

[Blueblood]

And this concludes another episode of "Richard Making Friends".

 

Richard, you would fit right in over at the "Employee Forum". :reading:

 

Lighten up a little and stop attacking so much.

 

It's amazing how quick some fly off the handle here!

[BORG]

Oh for Cripes sake you guys.

 

Anyway, I really like the "Far left Focus" design, at least this portion if it.

 

It does make sense that this is the Focus because it shares some of the design language from the Focus Iosis concept, namely that notched eye-brow tail-light.

 

 

Sadly, the front headlight has nothing in common with the Iosis concept.

 

Edited January 10, 2010 by BORG

[sullynd]

That's what it says but it sure looks a lot smaller, is that full sized?

 

MKR, is that you?

[atvman]

Call me crazy, but the wheels on that "Mustang" look awfully similar to the wheels on the Fiesta (right).

 

Here are my guesses:

1. It is a Mustang being modeled in a 7:8 scale.

2. It is a Mustang based Cougar being modeled in a 7:8 scale.

3. It is a coupe based on the C platform.

4. It is a coupe based on the CD platform.

 

If it isn't a Mustang, then hopefully it's a Mercury.

[Anthony]

Sadly, the front headlight has nothing in common with the Iosis concept.

 

The headlight no....but if you look at fascia shape around the headlight of both the concept and the production, you'll see familiar shapes (especially underneath the headlight). It just may be something close to the Iosis.

 

Concept headlight:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Production headlight:

 

Edited January 10, 2010 by Intrepidatious

[BORG]

Call me crazy, but the wheels on that "Mustang" look awfully similar to the wheels on the Fiesta (right).

 

Here are my guesses:

1. It is a Mustang being modeled in a 7:8 scale.

2. It is a Mustang based Cougar being modeled in a 7:8 scale.

3. It is a coupe based on the C platform.

4. It is a coupe based on the CD platform.

 

If it isn't a Mustang, then hopefully it's a Mercury.

 

Those are definitley Mustang wheels, and they are the wheels prior to the 2010 update. So in effect, it's expired goods .

 

The shape of the clay model suggest a RWD Mustang-like vehicle, so it's probably safe to assume it's a Mustang design study in progress (usually full-size clays are the final draft designs before the production design is selected). I dont' think a Lincoln MKR will happen, but that's just my hunch. The Mustang chasis is not appropriate for Lincoln and customers aren't going to Lincoln for a sports car (same story with Mercury).

[BORG]

The headlight no....but if you look at fascia shape around the headlight of both the concept and the production, you'll see familiar shapes (especially underneath the headlight). Looks like you will be right with something close to the Iosis.

 

Concept headlight:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Production headlight:

 

 

 

Man that shape of that lamp is so much more interesting and destinct. And unfortunately, design has to be cohesive, so for a lamp to look like this, you can't expect the rest of the car to resemble the concept in anyway and do it successfully.

[Anthony]

Man that shape of that lamp is so much more interesting and destinct. And unfortunately, design has to be cohesive, so for a lamp to look like this, you can't expect the rest of the car to resemble the concept in anyway and do it successfully.

 

One can hope, right? It is a slick concept. Does the Iosis predate the mandate of "no more concepts that will not see production"?

[mackinaw]

The shape of the clay model suggest a RWD Mustang-like vehicle, so it's probably safe to assume it's a Mustang design study in progress (usually full-size clays are the final draft designs before the production design is selected). I dont' think a Lincoln MKR will happen, but that's just my hunch. The Mustang chasis is not appropriate for Lincoln and customers aren't going to Lincoln for a sports car (same story with Mercury).

 

Which begs the question, any speculation as to what platform any new Mustang be based on?

[TomServo92]

One can hope, right? It is a slick concept. Does the Iosis predate the mandate of "no more concepts that will not see production"?

 

I believe it does.