The new PI will be...a Taurus???

[PItrippin']

As a LEO who has driven Fords for probably 19 of the 22 years I've been on the job I was really glad when I read Ford would stay in the police car market. Today I see the press release and I'm,.......underwhelmed.

 

Front drive, stinks. All-wheel drive might be nice but I see that as being expensive. Did Ford really think it was a great idea to take a car they are trying to upscale and turn it into a fleet vehicle? Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the Taurus, as a family car or personal sedan. I think the Taurus has some fine attributes (Eco Boost) but I was hoping for more for a squad car.

 

How hard would it have been to get an Australian rear drive platform engineered for left hand drive?

 

I can see it now, my dept will likely switch to Caprices for the first time since the early 90's.

[SysEng]

As a LEO who has driven Fords for probably 19 of the 22 years I've been on the job I was really glad when I read Ford would stay in the police car market. Today I see the press release and I'm,.......underwhelmed.

 

... Did Ford really think it was a great idea

 

... the Taurus...

 

...I can see it now, my dept will likely switch to Caprices for the first time since the early 90's.

 

:hysterical:

 

And the guys at STAP thought they were out of a job.... :hysterical:

 

This is right up there with the Lincoln LS would replace the Town Car

 

Sure, if you bomb STAP, maybe.

 

Originally, STAP was to shutdown 2010... then 2011... and now I hear maybe 2012...

 

Heres my prediction. And you can take this to the bank>>>

The year Ford goes bankrupt is the year STAP shuts down.

[b.guggenmos]

As a LEO who has driven Fords for probably 19 of the 22 years I've been on the job I was really glad when I read Ford would stay in the police car market. Today I see the press release and I'm,.......underwhelmed.

 

Front drive, stinks. All-wheel drive might be nice but I see that as being expensive. Did Ford really think it was a great idea to take a car they are trying to upscale and turn it into a fleet vehicle? Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with the Taurus, as a family car or personal sedan. I think the Taurus has some fine attributes (Eco Boost) but I was hoping for more for a squad car.

 

How hard would it have been to get an Australian rear drive platform engineered for left hand drive?

 

I can see it now, my dept will likely switch to Caprices for the first time since the early 90's.

 

I also watched the 1/2 hour show today about a "purpose built" law enfrocement car and was not impressed. They were really trying hard to sell you on it but I don't think it will hold up like the CV. We have about 20 CV's right now and one Charger. I can't wait until the Charger expires out of service. We have several Impala's as detective cars and that is fine and one Impala as a traffic car and so far so good.

 

I think GM will be the leader in patrol cars if they get rid of the console mounted shifter. That is not going to cut it with most cops.

 

We will buy CV's until the very end.

[PItrippin']

I also watched the 1/2 hour show today about a "purpose built" law enfrocement car and was not impressed. They were really trying hard to sell you on it but I don't think it will hold up like the CV. We have about 20 CV's right now and one Charger. I can't wait until the Charger expires out of service. We have several Impala's as detective cars and that is fine and one Impala as a traffic car and so far so good.

 

I think GM will be the leader in patrol cars if they get rid of the console mounted shifter. That is not going to cut it with most cops.

 

We will buy CV's until the very end.

 

Yeah right, "purpose built". Oh hey, we have a "purpose built" durable police floor mat, and a "purpose built" shift lever, and "purpose built" vented steel wheels, yada yada. Today it is seeming too much like spin.

 

I went back to the stories from last fall that showed images of Falcons and I guess the writers had just assumed Ford would not roll out the Taurus as a police car and with the short lead in time they would import the Falcon with some changes. I guess it was too much to hope for. I don't really know who sits on this police advisory board but maybe they are some cube dwellers from some very large departments that don't care much about the front drive/ rear drive thing and the fuel usage thing is an issue with using a v6 vs v8.

 

The department I work for experimented with some Impalas in 2000-02 and I wound up with one. It was adequate for about 90% of what I had to do but during that 10% of the time when it wasn't, I really missed my CVPI. I hated front wheel drive when I needed to go fast. I hated the torque steer, especially on sloppy roads. It just did not hold up as well. The promise of greater fuel mileage was almost negated when when one realized they were twisting that v6 so hard to get the performance from it that it almost balanced out.

 

Look, I need a back-up camera like my German Shepherd needs a wristwatch. All-wheel drive and turbocharging seems complex and expensive in this application. Just more things to go wrong and I think it will be cost prohibitive for many agencies. When you spend whole days and weeks in your car you know where your switches are, being able to give a voice command to turn on lights, well back to the dog and the watch analogy. It seems like selling gimmicks instead of solid function.

 

Solid function would be a durable rear drive platform with great performance be it from an Eco Boost v6 or a proven v8 or the option of both. An uncluttered interior for mounting ancillary equipment. Pre-wired power access points with a dual battery system. A open flat dashboard with access points built in for running wires below the dash. A bullet proof tranny. You get it,.....purpose built.

 

I would imagine we will buy CVPIs until the end of production and then transition to the Caprice after it has been on the market for a year. I can't see it much differently because our bid criteria is written for rear drive preference (we did that after the failed Impala experiment).

[carforford]

They were saying on Media.ford.com that SYNC will be used with different police media, allowing the officer to have full attention to the task at hand....I think I understand it will be something like this.... Officer pushes button...Sync Please say a Command, officer says Lights and Sirens...Sync Repeats, Lights and Sirens, then they come on....Now I like Sync, and I am not in Law Enforcement, but I cannot but think wouldn't it be easier and quicker.Just to turn them on yourself.....The other thing is, while I believe in all of Ford's Products, I cannot think that maybe doing the Taurus as a PI was not the right thing. The Taurus is an upscale brand now and to kinda cheapen up the interior and the fact that it is in fleet use might be a little of an issue in terms of de-value of a Taurus. The other thing is, will the FWD or AWD versions hold up to the severe duty that police vehicles see on a regular basis. I have no doubt that the Normal 3.5 motor as well as Eco-boost versions perform as intended but will the suspension and powertrains be up to the task.?

 

Just my .02

 

Thanks.

[suv_guy_19]

The Police Interceptor doesn't have the name Taurus on it anywhere. I doubt it will be a problem that they share body panels. As for a purpose built car, well, if you don't think it is, they you can't have read all the changes that were made. Like the PI, it can be hit from the rear at 75mph, and it can survive a curb hit at 40mph. It has tougher pieces throughout. It also can accept equipment from the CVPI.

[suv_guy_19]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h4G2vLogOkYfgHb7vd8IwRt8wJYgD9EDCE9O1

[SysEng]

I also watched the 1/2 hour show today about a "purpose built" law enfrocement car and was not impressed. They were really trying hard to sell you on it but I don't think it will hold up like the CV...

 

 

Hmmm, let me guess, the fact that a CV busted thru the wall first give it away?

 

Even with crap all over it any "panther" still comes out looking better than this "purpose built" D3 wannabe :rolleyes:

 

But hey, lets get this out on patrol first before we really dump on it.

 

I'd like to see somebody else test that 75mph rear impact "survival" capability...

 

Any takers??? :P

.

[rscalzo]

I'd like to see somebody else test that 75mph rear impact "survival" capability...

 

Any takers??? :P

.

 

I had one of my patrol officers involved in a read end MVA wihen a DWI struck his CV. The car was mashed into a pile of scrap. The officer had some minor bruising and back pain but not much more. The car was towed and scraped. I had the body shop cut out the unit number and I had it framed for him.

 

But it looks like this is the only game in town for Ford so I'd have to wait until it was tested on the street. I like the AWD verious but cost may put it out of the reach of normal unit purchases.

[StapRoboSitter]

The Police Interceptor doesn't have the name Taurus on it anywhere. I doubt it will be a problem that they share body panels. As for a purpose built car, well, if you don't think it is, they you can't have read all the changes that were made. Like the PI, it can be hit from the rear at 75mph, and it can survive a curb hit at 40mph. It has tougher pieces throughout. It also can accept equipment from the CVPI.

 

The Current Police Interceptor is just as "Purpose Built" as the new one is... Any part that needed beefing up, was... any part that was extra? was removed... its been a give and take over 20 years converting the Crown Victoria into the Police Interceptor... and they seem to have taken that knowledge with them over to the new Police Interceptor...

 

They truly are different animals, just a similar platform with the same sheet metal... The D3 Interceptor is the same, Sheet Metal will probably be the only similarity with the exception of some Nuts and Bolts

 

With that being said... I don't want my plant to close so Bring over the Falcon!! hehe

 

Just recently, an Officer In Toronto lost his life after having his Charger Wrapped around a light-pole... the loss is terrible, and I hate knowing that if he were in a Panther Interceptor? He would be alive today...

[Mackintire]

The Current Police Interceptor is just as "Purpose Built" as the new one is... Any part that needed beefing up, was... any part that was extra? was removed... its been a give and take over 20 years converting the Crown Victoria into the Police Interceptor... and they seem to have taken that knowledge with them over to the new Police Interceptor...

 

They truly are different animals, just a similar platform with the same sheet metal... The D3 Interceptor is the same, Sheet Metal will probably be the only similarity with the exception of some Nuts and Bolts

 

With that being said... I don't want my plant to close so Bring over the Falcon!! hehe

 

Just recently, an Officer In Toronto lost his life after having his Charger Wrapped around a light-pole... the loss is terrible, and I hate knowing that if he were in a Panther Interceptor? He would be alive today...

 

 

The AWD EB 3.5 version does not drive like a FWD. No torque steer either. You are right thou, I am concerned about the suspension durability. On the flipside, AWD will be nice for the police cruisers in the NE winters.

[akirby]

You are right thou, I am concerned about the suspension durability.

 

Right - because every can can hit a 8" curb at 40 mph with no damage.

[danglin]

 

Just wait until all of the Testing (MSP and LA County), and pricing is out before writing this off. I think this machine will perform quite well. It is definitely going to be a safer car. It appears that Ford has made many significant changes to the Taurus Platform to make this a car worthy of serious consideration.

 

Chevrolet looks to have a competitive car, but it will be imported (Expensive Parts?), and the console shifter must go. This is not acceptable!!!

 

Who knows how long the Charger will be around, and I am not hearing much good about reliabilty.,,

Edited March 17, 2010 by danglin

[SysEng]

 

Just wait until all of the Testing (MSP and LA County), and pricing is out before writing this off. I think this machine will perform quite well. It is definitely going to be a safer car.

 

...

Who knows how long the Charger will be around, and I am not hearing much good about reliabilty.,,

 

Issue, is that it is another in a series of "acceptable" ( OK, we'll see about that ) contenders.

Therefore, it gets to split the market 4 -5 ways.

 

The CVPI is a lone contender... FWIW it OWNS the entire market.

 

Personally, if the "panthers" are actually canceled, this is a gift to Chrysler.

 

As in the Charger/ C300 are a better choice than the other contenders in that class.

 

[stpatrick90]

Issue, is that it is another in a series of "acceptable" ( OK, we'll see about that ) contenders.

Therefore, it gets to split the market 4 -5 ways.

 

The CVPI is a lone contender... FWIW it OWNS the entire market.

 

Personally, if the "panthers" are actually canceled, this is a gift to Chrysler.

 

As in the Charger/ C300 are a better choice than the other contenders in that class.

 

 

The Panther is dead. Plain and simple. The sooner you come to terms with that the sooner you can move on.

Are you really so naive as to believe that FMC will go bankrupt the year after they close STAP? That is a laugh. The CVPI is a great car in its own right but it frankly won't meet modern day safety standards (ie Stability Control/Curtain Airbags). Granted those things can be retrofitted, however at a great cost. Then there is the whole problem that the CV has no sales outside of fleet and even that is in jeopardy as taxi fleets look to more fuel efficient models. So essentially what FMC has is the Panther platform that is so old and out of date that it shares little to no components with any other FMC vehicle. The Panthers use the 4.6 which is now being replaced (along with the 5.4) by the new 5.0 and 6.2. Combine that with the fact that the transmission is also now unique to only that vehicle. The fact that the powertrain is being phased out in the FMC lineup is further reason to cut the Panther rather than revamp it at a huge expenditure. By the time FMC would implement a new powertrain and the needed safety items you would be looking at a car that cost just as much as the new PI that is coming out, and would it be any better?

The business case behind making the new PI off the D3 is undeniably the smart thing to do economically. There is no denying that any of the D3 vehicles are safe and as robust as can be. I currently have a D3 Sable and that thing is a tank and arguably has more usable interior space than a CV or GM in my experience. The fuel efficiency is phenomenal, I regularly seeing 31 mpg on the hwy and I have AWD and I drive with a lead foot. Also in my experience the trunk is much more usable than any Panther, and that is large part because of the huge flat floor un-intruded by a spare tire. So what we have already right there in the D3 is great safety, and efficiency in both size, space and fuel consumption. So what FMC smartly decided to do from a business standpoint was PI-ify the D3. If you would have paid attention to the presentation you would have noticed that FMC smartly benchmarked the CVPI in every aspect and either met that benchmark or exceeded it. That last part is in important because that means by simple reasoning we can conclude that the new PI is going to be better than the current CVPI because it meets or exceeds the CVPI (and yes that means the 75 mph rear crash test too).

PS you probably should know this, but the Charger PI is not too reliable.

PSS the Caprice is probably going to be some stiff competition but I feel that the volume is going to be constrained being imported and all.

[fordmantpw]

The Panther is dead. Plain and simple. The sooner you come to terms with that the sooner you can move on.

Are you really so naive as to believe that FMC will go bankrupt the year after they close STAP? That is a laugh. The CVPI is a great car in its own right but it frankly won't meet modern day safety standards (ie Stability Control/Curtain Airbags). Granted those things can be retrofitted, however at a great cost. Then there is the whole problem that the CV has no sales outside of fleet and even that is in jeopardy as taxi fleets look to more fuel efficient models. So essentially what FMC has is the Panther platform that is so old and out of date that it shares little to no components with any other FMC vehicle. The Panthers use the 4.6 which is now being replaced (along with the 5.4) by the new 5.0 and 6.2. Combine that with the fact that the transmission is also now unique to only that vehicle. The fact that the powertrain is being phased out in the FMC lineup is further reason to cut the Panther rather than revamp it at a huge expenditure. By the time FMC would implement a new powertrain and the needed safety items you would be looking at a car that cost just as much as the new PI that is coming out, and would it be any better?

The business case behind making the new PI off the D3 is undeniably the smart thing to do economically. There is no denying that any of the D3 vehicles are safe and as robust as can be. I currently have a D3 Sable and that thing is a tank and arguably has more usable interior space than a CV or GM in my experience. The fuel efficiency is phenomenal, I regularly seeing 31 mpg on the hwy and I have AWD and I drive with a lead foot. Also in my experience the trunk is much more usable than any Panther, and that is large part because of the huge flat floor un-intruded by a spare tire. So what we have already right there in the D3 is great safety, and efficiency in both size, space and fuel consumption. So what FMC smartly decided to do from a business standpoint was PI-ify the D3. If you would have paid attention to the presentation you would have noticed that FMC smartly benchmarked the CVPI in every aspect and either met that benchmark or exceeded it. That last part is in important because that means by simple reasoning we can conclude that the new PI is going to be better than the current CVPI because it meets or exceeds the CVPI (and yes that means the 75 mph rear crash test too).

PS you probably should know this, but the Charger PI is not too reliable.

PSS the Caprice is probably going to be some stiff competition but I feel that the volume is going to be constrained being imported and all.

 

Well said, but they (the panther mafia) won't listen to you!

[T'Cal]

I too am disappointed by Ford's choice to base the next PI on the Taurus; however, I'm not at all surprised. I had guessed that Ford would use the Taurus as the basis but that AWD and the new 305HP 3.7L V6 would be standard. That would likely be the best all around compromise for cost, straight line performance, handling dynamics, and fuel economy. My fear is that the AWD EB PI model will be too expensive initially not to mention over all due to higher fuel consumption and maintenance. In addition, the FWD model might only prove to be a better FWD squad car than the antique Impala - not too difficult a task. As for the bulk of the market that Ford now owns, it will likely go to the new Caprice, which might cost a bit more than the Taurus. Chevy will be able to charge more initially because the demand for used Caprice PPVs will very likely be quite high; that's where cities/villages will be able to recoup most if not all of their initial higher costs.

 

With the SHO drive train (more than 365HP per Ford's press release), the Taurus PI will likely be measurably faster than the 355HP Caprice, but that will all be academic as both will be quite fast. I believe that many of us who as patrol officers drove (and loved!) the '94-'96 LT1 Caprices will see a rebirth of that magic in this new (if unrelated) Caprice. Now, some 15+ years later, many of us have risen up the ranks into positions that make or at least influence the purchasing decisions for our agencies. Many of us will choose the RWD Caprice PPV over the FWD/AWD Taurus PI for our officers to drive. FWD just hasn't held up well in the form of the 90's Taurus and the Impalas since 2000.

 

Where Ford may do really well is with the Explorer based PI. The only pursuit rated SUV out there now is the RWD Tahoe, which is heavy, thirsty, and expensive. The Explorer PI could expand the law enforcement SUV market if it comes in cheap - even more so if it's available with AWD and no EB. Many agencies would seriously consider the convenience of a pursuit rated SUV especially if it costs no more than a sedan, which the Explorer has the potential to do. Like the Taurus PI, the most balanced drive train for an Explorer PI would be the 3.7L with AWD.

Edited March 22, 2010 by T'Cal

[rscalzo]

...Sync Please say a Command, officer says Lights and Sirens...Sync Repeats, Lights and Sirens, then they come on....Now I like Sync, and I am not in Law Enforcement,

 

They are about eight years too late. NH has had that feature called "Project 54" http://www.project54.unh.edu/overview/about.html for years. It was developed by Univ. of Nh and offered free to any agency that wanted it. It works well.

Edited March 22, 2010 by rscalzo

[akirby]

I too am disappointed by Ford's choice to base the next PI on the Taurus; however, I'm not at all surprised. I had guessed that Ford would use the Taurus as the basis but that AWD and the new 305HP 3.7L V6 would be standard.

 

Don't forget this is a concept and it's 18 months away from production. It will most likely either get the upgraded 3.5 or the 3.7 by then. But even the 3.5 would outperform the current 4.6L V8.

[PItrippin']

I've talked to a lot of my contemporaries lately and my opinion is shared by most. Although the AWD EB version seems like it might be very impressive, they too doubt that the cost will be low enough for their agencies to purchase many units. Many also remember the Taurus squads of the early 90's and the Impalas (Celebrities and Luminas too if you were around long enough) and front wheel drive just turns them off. I talked to our fleet mechanic about it and he said while it is a screamer (the SHO Taurus vehicle) you can barely get a feeler gauge around the engine compartment when you lift the hood and look inside.

 

I read in one article that FWD is/was chosen because most young people today grow up driving FWD. Big deal, many drive pick-ups and SUVs too as the second family vehicle and they have RWD. The issue of FWD, RWD, AWD in familiarity of operator is a training issue. Spend some time on the EVOC course with the car, you'll get used to it (RWD) and you'll like it much better! If FWD was so great, why do we not see it in racing applications at the highest levels of the sport?

 

I hope Ford uses the time to look at some of these concerns and get it right with this pursuit rated Explorer. This might just assuage those of us who like our RWD cruisers. Design and build that vehicle the right way and price it right and it might become very popular. I really hope so because our agency just bought one of those RWD pursuit Tahoes to try out.

 

Look, I'm not Panther Mafia. I like my CVPI, but I can part with it. It has been good to me and mine but it has been long in the tooth for a while. I've wanted to see a replacement for years now but I was really hoping for a version of an Aussie RWD Falcon.

[akirby]

I read in one article that FWD is/was chosen because most young people today grow up driving FWD.

 

I think it's fairly obvious that FWD was chosen because it's the only available cost effective platform right now.

 

I hope Ford uses the time to look at some of these concerns and get it right with this pursuit rated Explorer. This might just assuage those of us who like our RWD cruisers.

 

I'm guessing you totally missed the part about the new Explorer - on which the PI Utility would be based - is going to be FWD on the same platform as the Taurus. The only difference with the Explorer will be more storage, ground clearance and towing capability.

[PItrippin']

I think it's fairly obvious that FWD was chosen because it's the only available cost effective platform right now.

 

One article, just one, mentioned the driving attributes. I read a bunch of the "fairly obvious" ones also in regards to manufacturing costs. But thanks.

 

 

 

I'm guessing you totally missed the part about the new Explorer - on which the PI Utility would be based - is going to be FWD on the same platform as the Taurus. The only difference with the Explorer will be more storage, ground clearance and towing capability.

 

 

I'm guessing I did "totally miss" it then. Well, I won't want something that's something like a pursuit rated minivan with a longer hood then will I? Thanks again.

[MIAMI-DADE]

I think most agencies will load up on the 2011 CVPI to hold them over for awhile till they decide what they really want to get...They will get as many as they can afford.

 

Sheriff if you are out there what do you think of the new T.P.I.?

[rscalzo]

I think most agencies will load up on the 2011 CVPI to hold them over for awhile till they decide what they really want to get...They will get as many as they can afford.

 

Sheriff if you are out there what do you think of the new T.P.I.?

 

 

Most agencies can barely afford pencils right now. Stocking up on additional vehicles isn;t goinbg to happen.

[packardbob]

Our PD held off last year on buying new cars, they usually buy either 2 or 3 a year and retire the same number. This year they are doing the same thing and are hoping to get to replace the entire fleet towards the end of next year.