NickF1011 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 But here's the thing: The >$23k Focus will have leather, heated seats, EATC, BAMR, MyFord Touch, EB, etc. For $35k your putative Lincoln compact sedan will have what additional amenities? Cooled seats, maybe a fancier suspension, better leather, and real wood. The price premium will rest almost entirely on the badge. And that's not a 'failing' for Lincoln. Frankly, that's why luxury cars are so profitable. The biggest markup comes from one of the cheapest parts on the car (the badge). Now among those willing to pay a premium for chrome plated plastic Lincoln emblems, how many want a -compact- sedan? Let alone a bizarre hatchbacky Pacerish oversized Chuck Taylor high top? A $28K starting price would still have it undercutting most of the entry-lux competition. And yeah, if it comes to market looking anything like that ugly Concept C it will be full of fail. The only way I see it succeeding at all is as a tradtional 3-box sedan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 But here's the thing: The >$23k Focus will have leather, heated seats, EATC, BAMR, MyFord Touch, EB, etc. For $35k your putative Lincoln compact sedan will have what additional amenities? Cooled seats, maybe a fancier suspension, better leather, and real wood. The price premium will rest almost entirely on the badge. Perhaps Ford should look again at adding all that extra equipment to the Focus and keep it for the Lincoln Model? It doesn't make sense to do on larger cars (which most people are willing to spend extra on with a Ford product), but Lincoln needs SOMETHING to make it different then just sheetmetal and plastic chrome on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 A $28K starting price would still have it undercutting most of the entry-lux competition. And yeah, if it comes to market looking anything like that ugly Concept C it will be full of fail. The only way I see it succeeding at all is as a tradtional 3-box sedan. I'm more of the mind that a CUV is the only way to go, as you noted several pages ago--based on my 'take' of the typical Lincoln customer. A C-segment CUV probably won't have any more passenger space than a C-segment sedan, but the CUV will seem bigger--and will probably sustain a higher margin. Not only that, the C-segment luxury field is, IMO, woefully underserved. You've got the X3, the RDX, and what else? While I suppose the argument against bite-sized luxury cars could be made against c-segment CUVs (there aren't many of them and they don't sell well), I'm inclined to discount that argument in this case because the other argument against bite sized luxury is that people won't downsize at the same price ('lets trade in our $28k Fusion for a $28k A3'), and in this case, I think there are plenty of Escape/CRX/RAV4 type owners that are in a position to trade those vehicles in on a Lincoln CUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Perhaps Ford should look again at adding all that extra equipment to the Focus and keep it for the Lincoln Model? Goes back to what I was saying in one of the Mercury threads though. You can't artificially handicap one model line just to benefit another. If the Focus doesn't offer certain features, Chevrolet, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, etc will, and will steal potential Focus customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 Perhaps Ford should look again at adding all that extra equipment to the Focus and keep it for the Lincoln Model? I don't think you want to do that because if you can put that technology in a car at that price point, you -need- to put that technology in a car at that price point because if you don't, someone else will, and then you have two choices: appear to be a follower, or refuse to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 I don't think you want to do that because if you can put that technology in a car at that price point, you -need- to put that technology in a car at that price point because if you don't, someone else will, and then you have two choices: appear to be a follower, or refuse to follow. Thats understandable, but at the same time does a Focus or Fiesta really need a 1500-2K Nav system in it, which is roughly 5-10% of the asking price of the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Thats understandable, but at the same time does a Focus or Fiesta really need a 1500-2K Nav system in it, which is roughly 5-10% of the asking price of the car If people are willing to pay for it, yes. If hardly anyone ends up opting for them, I'm sure they'll drop them. Won't hurt much to offer it though and see how it is received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share Posted June 8, 2010 If people are willing to pay for it, yes. If hardly anyone ends up opting for them, I'm sure they'll drop them. Won't hurt much to offer it though and see how it is received. The markup on those things is extraordinary, and I don't think it costs much to integrate them. I don't know if 'modern' Ford has ever dropped an option like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 Thats understandable, but at the same time does a Focus or Fiesta really need a 1500-2K Nav system in it, which is roughly 5-10% of the asking price of the car People love their navs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 People love their navs. Fiesta as of now is only getting turn by turn direction nav, no big screen and consequently no $2000 ticket....Focus may get the option.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) So you're saying that Lincoln should have a two seat convertible/coupe? Priced in the high $30ks? Because that's what the TT is, and where it is No the origins of a car are far less important than the car itself. Focus on the Car and it's intended market, not on what it is based upon, or stereotypes. But it DOES need cars that pay their own way. this is true this is why they are looking to base it on a volume architecture. all small Audis are based on VWs, all Acuras are based on hondas, they don't sit up at night a worry about percetions of the car because of it's origins. why should we. Edited June 9, 2010 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 they don't sit up at night a worry about percetions of the car because of it's origins. why should we. They damn well BETTER worry about the perception of their car, the days of 'throw it against the wall and see if it sticks had BETTER be over at Ford. And my objection is the SIZE not the ORIGIN. BTW: +1 fail for comparing Lincoln to Acura (Lincoln outsells Acura) and +2 fail for comparing Lincoln to Audi (Audi barely outsells Lincoln) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 A $28K starting price would still have it undercutting most of the entry-lux competition. And yeah, if it comes to market looking anything like that ugly Concept C it will be full of fail. The only way I see it succeeding at all is as a tradtional 3-box sedan. I like the Concept C, it needs some love but I think in general a compact lux car should look a little different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I like the Concept C, it needs some love but I think in general a compact lux car should look a little different What other luxury compacts follow anything other than a traditional 2- or 3-box design? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 The markup on those things is extraordinary, and I don't think it costs much to integrate them. I don't know if 'modern' Ford has ever dropped an option like that. just ordered an 11 Edge for a customer...Nav has dropped tp $795.....???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 just ordered an 11 Edge for a customer...Nav has dropped tp $795.....???????? With so many phones now offering built-in nav, and now Sync offering Google Maps integration, maybe they were seeing a big drop-off in nav orders as people found them less and less necessary for the cost. For $795 I would consider it in a new vehicle. For $1500+? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 just ordered an 11 Edge for a customer...Nav has dropped tp $795.....???????? Did it include the MyFord Touch gauges or whatever they are calling it? Wait a minute....the digital gauges have 2 different configurations....My Ford comes with a single 4.2 LCD, my Ford Touch comes with 2 4.2in LCD plus a 8 inch LCD in the center console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 They damn well BETTER worry about the perception of their car, the days of 'throw it against the wall and see if it sticks had BETTER be over at Ford. And my objection is the SIZE not the ORIGIN. BTW: +1 fail for comparing Lincoln to Acura (Lincoln outsells Acura) and +2 fail for comparing Lincoln to Audi (Audi barely outsells Lincoln) So comparing the proposed small Lincoln to the best selling 3 series which is 3 inches longer than the fiesta and narrower than the EU focus, is more or less valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one2gamble Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 What other luxury compacts follow anything other than a traditional 2- or 3-box design? how many compact luxury cars are on the market the size of a fiesta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 So comparing the proposed small Lincoln to the best selling 3 series which is 3 inches longer than the fiesta and narrower than the EU focus, is more or less valid? Nope. No point in 'aspiring' to sell fewer cars (Acura) or about the same number of cars (Audi) (BTW: YTD-37k Lincolns, 39k Audis, 7 Lincoln models, 9 Audi models). Nor is there any point in pretending that Lincoln can sell a vinyl equipped compact car for $33k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 (edited) Did it include the MyFord Touch gauges or whatever they are calling it? Wait a minute....the digital gauges have 2 different configurations....My Ford comes with a single 4.2 LCD, my Ford Touch comes with 2 4.2in LCD plus a 8 inch LCD in the center console. My Ford is std on SE and SELs, option code 52N ( Navigation ) is the $795 upgrade, MyFord touch is std on 201a and 202a SEL packages and that gives the 8 inch screen that is a necessary element...so now the nav isnt the whole kit and caboodle, I guess it just adds the Nav itself single Cd MP3 playerSd card for map POI storage and Travel link...man, my heads about ready to explode....I'm NEVER going to remember all this crap.....oh FYI....NO notations regarding the 2.0 eco engine yet... Edited June 9, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Nope. No point in 'aspiring' to sell fewer cars (Acura) or about the same number of cars (Audi) (BTW: YTD-37k Lincolns, 39k Audis, 7 Lincoln models, 9 Audi models). Nor is there any point in pretending that Lincoln can sell a vinyl equipped compact car for $33k ....Mini somehow does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 ....Mini somehow does.... Yes. If only Ford could somehow recapture the essence of an iconic 60s vehicle.... Oh wait. Ford already has its Mini and it sells way better than BMW's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) RJ, do you think Lincoln needs to have the choices offered by other luxury makers eg:sedan, coupe, convertible, wagon CUV, in the C segment aka 3-series, MB C-class etc to reinvent Lincoln? Or should Lincoln not make a play for that consumer and in a sense not necessarily reinvent itself in the way Cadillac has been attempting? Edited June 10, 2010 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) how many compact luxury cars are on the market the size of a fiesta? Where does this FIESTA thing keep coming from?? I don't hear any indication that the compact Lincoln will be built on any platform smaller than the Focus. Edited June 10, 2010 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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