The idiocy of a compact Lincoln

[silvrsvt]

I'm going to help prove RJ point here a little...its far more simple then he's trying to say....

 

Both BMW and Mercedes have a major issue...they are both Luxury makes in the markets they compete in and make mostly CD and larger sized cars that mostly get not so great MPG. With that being said, they face a big issue both in the USA and the EU...one is MPG CAFE ratings (well BMW pays the fine) and Co2 regs in the EU (which is partly offset by killing people with Diesel exhausts in return for good MPG, but is going to change in the near future)

 

Since both are luxury players in the market, they need to make smaller cars to help out with these issues...with the way Ford is (a full line car maker) and Lincoln is....Lincoln really doesn't need anything smaller then a CD sized car at the moment. Maybe if gas goes back up into the $4-5 range in a couple years they will, but I'd say for the next 2-3 years the market isn't going to be there for a compact sedan. Since Ford sells alot of Fiestas, Foci and even Mondeos/Fusions with I4 engines in them, they aren't going to need a C sized Luxury car right away if at all (baring a major change in the market, like I explained above) to make these new regulations coming down the pike.

[PREMiERdrum]

Didn't he say that Mercury wasn't going anywhere?

 

Seriously, I think you put too much faith into what this person says.

 

He confirmed that the review was being done and it was up to the board to pick with option (of the 3 I posted here the day before the announcement). His sources thought that they would side with the first option, which would have kept Mercury going with the plan in place, at least until the Lincoln line was beefed up. Instead, they decided to add models to Lincoln quicker and pull the plug on Mercury now.

 

There are plenty of "insiders" who I wouldn't trust at all. Wescoent's sources are solid and I've never had an issue with anything he's reported.

[syrtran]

the 1 series is a coupe, and only available as a convertible and coupe. this does not match demographics of the US which has been moving away from coupes for some time.

The problem with the 1 series is that it's powered by an I6. It should've been designed around an all-new 4-banger, and gotten over 30 mpg. Otherwise, it's just a shortened low-end 3 series, for the same price.

 

(And the problem with the A3 is that it's a badge-engineered Jetta)

 

^^^

A Compact Lincoln wouldnt start at 26K...32K i would say at least.

 

The MkC does not share the deminsiions of the A3 or C30. The MkC is huge, bigger than a 64 Continental on the inside. It will sell more than what you give it, youll see.

32K is too close to the price of the MKZ. I'd expect a smaller Lincoln to be cheaper

 

The MKC is closer in size to the A3 than it is to any other product.

 

And don't try and impress me by quoting size figures from sixties cars. They had TERRIBLE space utilization back then. Compare any car built before the '77 Caprice with the '77 Caprice.

 

Every passenger car being built today is descended first from the '77 Caprice and second from the '86 Taurus.

1976 Chevrolet Chevette (you should've specified "American designed")

 

I agree with Richard. There's no market in the US for a compact Lincoln, unless it's a reskin of the Mariner (or Kuga, which I still think could be made to look like the Concept C).

 

The money made from the A3/A4, 1-series, C30/S40, and even, possibly, the Mini probably just about covers the money spent on marketing these things - but they sure help CAFE numbers, which Lincoln doesn't need.

[ausrutherford]

The problem with the 1 series is that it's powered by an I6. It should've been designed around an all-new 4-banger, and gotten over 30 mpg. Otherwise, it's just a shortened low-end 3 series, for the same price.

 

(And the problem with the A3 is that it's a badge-engineered Jetta)

 

 

32K is too close to the price of the MKZ. I'd expect a smaller Lincoln to be cheaper

 

 

1976 Chevrolet Chevette (you should've specified "American designed")

 

I agree with Richard. There's no market in the US for a compact Lincoln, unless it's a reskin of the Mariner (or Kuga, which I still think could be made to look like the Concept C).

 

The money made from the A3/A4, 1-series, C30/S40, and even, possibly, the Mini probably just about covers the money spent on marketing these things - but they sure help CAFE numbers, which Lincoln doesn't need.

 

How much you want to bet the next MkZ will cost like 38k?

[2b2]

How much you want to bet the next MkZ will cost like 38k?

they talked about the littlest Lincoln a bit on AutolineDetroit-AfterHours this week

and tho I certainly don't take them as gospel, they thought the C-car would start at $30k

then (given that I'm imbued with base-ten pricepoints)

the MKZ could start at 35

and the MKS at 40 . . .

 

& a contrarian thought I posted elsewhere semi-seriously(?)

(partly cuz another Wescoent post mentioned the Focus-RS drivetrain for the Lincoln)

 

kinda thinking with the MKG/KuGa to handle the need for more space,

a mini-hotrod might not be a bad idea - even tho the the bottomline might not support that

Edited June 7, 2010 by 2b2

[ausrutherford]

they talked about the littlest Lincoln a bit on AutolineDetroit-AfterHours this week

and tho I certainly don't take them as gospel, they thought the C-car would start at $30k

then (given that I'm imbued with base-ten pricepoints)

the MKZ could start at 35

and the MKS at 40 . . .

 

& a contrarian thought I posted elsewhere semi-seriously(?)

(partly cuz another Wescoent post mentioned the Focus-RS drivetrain for the Lincoln)

 

kinda thinking with the MKG/KuGa to handle the need for more space,

a mini-hotrod might not be a bad idea - even tho the the bottomline might not support that

 

The MkS already starts above 40.

[2b2]

The MkS already starts above 40.

I did a real-quick google & saw 38

 

but I guess my point would be that a 5k step-stone doesn't sound to small to me

[ausrutherford]

I did a real-quick google & saw 38

 

but I guess my point would be that a 5k step-stone doesn't sound to small to me

 

It starts now at $42,270. My bet the next one will be near $45k.

[2b2]

It starts now at $42,270. My bet the next one will be near $45k.

so

MKFocus = 30

MKZ = 37.5

MKS = 45

?

 

or

MKFocus = 31

MKZ = 38

MKS = 45

 

honestly, I don't keep up on the prices of things I can't afford...

...pretty much anything other than groceries

[2b2]

so

MKFocus = 30

MKZ = 37.5

MKS = 45

?

 

or

MKFocus = 31

MKZ = 38

MKS = 45

 

honestly, I don't keep up on the prices of things I can't afford...

...pretty much anything other than groceries

MKFocus = 30 (ie 29,999.95)

MKZ = 37

MKS = 44

 

MKFocus = 30 (ie 29,999.95)

MKZ = 36

MKS = 42

if they hold the prices to keep volume

 

but what IF they go the sporty/RS route??

MKF-RS = 35

MKZ = 37

MKS = 44

((I'm just babbling))

[RichardJensen]

1976 Chevrolet Chevette (you should've specified "American designed")

 

The Chevette is that old? Really?

 

Well, I'm still sticking with the Caprice, because it was a better car--even if it came a year later. :D

Edited June 7, 2010 by RichardJensen

[ausrutherford]

MKFocus = 30 (ie 29,999.95)

MKZ = 37

MKS = 44

 

MKFocus = 30 (ie 29,999.95)

MKZ = 36

MKS = 42

if they hold the prices to keep volume

 

but what IF they go the sporty/RS route??

MKF-RS = 35

MKZ = 37

MKS = 44

((I'm just babbling))

 

Im thinking...

 

MkFocus-33

MkFocus RS-40

MkEscape-38

MkEscape EB-44

MkZ-38

MkZ EB-44

MkX-42

MkX EB-48

MkS-45

MkSL-48

MkS Eb-51

Nav-60

NavL-62

Nav with GT500 engine-67

Edited June 7, 2010 by ausrutherford

[rmc523]

Im thinking...

 

MkFocus-33

MkFocus RS-40

MkEscape-38

MkEscape EB-44

MkZ-38

MkZ EB-44

MkX-42

MkX EB-48

MkS-45

MkSL-48

MkS Eb-51

Nav-60

NavL-62

Nav with GT500 engine-67

 

LOL at that last one there....

[Ford Jellymoulds]

100 MPG Econetic Diesel/Hybrid Lincoln COMPACT that would make Prius owners spill their milk and command a premium price in Europe and make Lincoln instantly desirable.

[Biker16]

Have we debunked the the topic of this thread yet?

 

the best selling luxury car in the world is only 4 inches longer than the fiesta.

[RichardJensen]

the best selling luxury car in the world is only 4 inches longer than the fiesta.

 

AND IT'S A BMW.

 

Go back and read the TITLE of this THREAD.

[Biker16]

AND IT'S A BMW.

 

Go back and read the TITLE of this THREAD.

 

Right but you used the BMW 1 series as an reason why a Small Lincoln won't work. Hmm?

 

You boast that there is no market for Small luxury cars, when the best selling luxury car is a Small Car.

 

So is size the issue or is it Lincoln itself?

[RichardJensen]

Right but you used the BMW 1 series as an reason why a Small Lincoln won't work. Hmm?

 

You boast that there is no market for Small luxury cars, when the best selling luxury car is a Small Car.

 

So is size the issue or is it Lincoln itself?

 

The 1-Series, it should be obvious, was picked because it's priced below the MKZ and the 3-Series.

 

And YES, the issue IS Lincoln. Lincoln doesn't have the cachet to charge > $30k for a compact sedan, which leaves you with the C30/A3 segment.

[NickF1011]

And YES, the issue IS Lincoln. Lincoln doesn't have the cachet to charge > $30k for a compact sedan, which leaves you with the C30/A3 segment.

 

If Ford has the cachet to charge upwards of $23K for the new Focus, I don't see where there would be much trouble launching a new compact Lincoln for around $28K-35K, especially if it has the distinctiveness the brand actually deserves. I expect nothing less than the next gen MKZ to jump by several thousand dollars in price.

[silvrsvt]

If Ford has the cachet to charge upwards of $23K for the new Focus, I don't see where there would be much trouble launching a new compact Lincoln for around $28K-35K, especially if it has the distinctiveness the brand actually deserves. I expect nothing less than the next gen MKZ to jump by several thousand dollars in price.

 

Thats not an issue, since you can get a Focus for under 20k..only when its optioned out to the max will you see it get that high. Lincoln needs to work on its cache before it can put out a small car like the Focus, or otherwise it will damage its image even more.

[Biker16]

Thats not an issue, since you can get a Focus for under 20k..only when its optioned out to the max will you see it get that high. Lincoln needs to work on its cache before it can put out a small car like the Focus, or otherwise it will damage its image even more.

do you think Audi was as skittish before it brought out the first gen TT based on the Mundane VW golf??

 

please grow a pair and focus on what the market for this car will be.

 

have faith in the process, linclon does not need homeruns to survive.

[silvrsvt]

do you think Audi was as skittish before it brought out the first gen TT based on the Mundane VW golf??

 

Totally different car then what Lincoln will be doing with a Focus based car

 

have faith in the process, linclon does not need homeruns to survive.

 

 

Nor did I say that...they line up they have now is a great starting point improve upon

 

 

 

 

[NickF1011]

Thats not an issue, since you can get a Focus for under 20k..only when its optioned out to the max will you see it get that high. Lincoln needs to work on its cache before it can put out a small car like the Focus, or otherwise it will damage its image even more.

 

How is Lincoln going to build cachet with no product? Yes, if it's a rebadged Focus it will fail. I expect much more.

[RichardJensen]

do you think Audi was as skittish before it brought out the first gen TT based on the Mundane VW golf??

So you're saying that Lincoln should have a two seat convertible/coupe? Priced in the high $30ks? Because that's what the TT is, and where it is

have faith in the process, linclon does not need homeruns to survive.

But it DOES need cars that pay their own way.

[RichardJensen]

I don't see where there would be much trouble launching a new compact Lincoln for around $28K-35K, especially if it has the distinctiveness the brand actually deserves.

 

But here's the thing: The >$23k Focus will have leather, heated seats, EATC, BAMR, MyFord Touch, EB, etc.

 

For $35k your putative Lincoln compact sedan will have what additional amenities? Cooled seats, maybe a fancier suspension, better leather, and real wood.

 

The price premium will rest almost entirely on the badge.

 

And that's not a 'failing' for Lincoln.

 

Frankly, that's why luxury cars are so profitable.

 

The biggest markup comes from one of the cheapest parts on the car (the badge).

 

Now among those willing to pay a premium for chrome plated plastic Lincoln emblems, how many want a -compact- sedan? Let alone a bizarre hatchbacky Pacerish oversized Chuck Taylor high top?