The idiocy of a compact Lincoln

[silvrsvt]

Doing some math here, I was looking at the Price gap (base models) on Truedelta for C class sized cars...I used Acura and Honda as an example

 

The RDX costs nearly 10K more then a CR-V thats its based on. The gap between the TSX and Civic is nearly $13K! I know the TSX is a Japanese or Euro Market Accord, but I use the US Accord the gap narrows to almost 8K difference.

 

Anyways, depending on how much $$ Ford wants to spend, The Lincoln C based products could bring in some good $$$. If Ford was smart, they could do a Euro Kuga tophat and share it with Lincoln and then do a Trucky SUV looking Escape for the US Market, but I got a feeling that isn't going to happen.

[mackinaw]

Eh, MY13 really isn't that far off when you think about it. MY12's will be launching in 6 months. I suspect a Lincoln C-car would at the very least trail the '12 Focus by 6 months anyway. That barely puts it ahead of a potentially new Escape launch.

 

No matter what C-class vehicle they decide to bring out, I suspect prototypes will start running around Dearborn next year for sure (maybe even late this year).

[NickF1011]

No matter what C-class vehicle they decide to bring out, I suspect prototypes will start running around Dearborn next year for sure (maybe even late this year).

 

Probably. Hopefully they won't be as sneaky about it as they have been with the Focus. :glare:

[RichardJensen]

If the MkT can be profitable at the levels it is now, then so can this and higher levels. Besides Lincoln needs to move into other markets. China and South American markets are both growing faster than the US market, and this will allow Lincoln to go into those countries very well.

The MKT sells for up to $60k. There's more margin on more expensive products.

 

It would rather be easy since the MkZ production is being hurt by Fusion stealing its volume.

 

And you know this how?

 

Ford makes more money on MKZ sales than on Fusion sales, so why would they skew production in favor of the Fusion and away from the MKZ?

[ausrutherford]

The MKT sells for up to $60k. There's more margin on more expensive products.

 

 

 

And you know this how?

 

Ford makes more money on MKZ sales than on Fusion sales, so why would they skew production in favor of the Fusion and away from the MKZ?

 

Because Hermisillo is producing at or above designed production. The CD3 sedans likely sold 30k worldwide last month. Notice how sales of the Fusion were up 2500 in the US while the MkZ and Milan were down 1500. Meanwhile, the Fusion added sales of around 450 in Brazil and Fusion sales are up in Canada. Something had to give for Fusion sales to be up when Hermisillo are at max capacity for both 2009 and 2010.

[2b2]

Probably. Hopefully they won't be as sneaky about it as they have been with the Focus. :glare:

hopefully they won't be ABLE to be as sneaky...

...meaning the MKfoCus will be so different that it could never confused with or disguised as the non-MucK variety

[RichardJensen]

Something had to give for Fusion sales to be up when Hermisillo are at max capacity

Your assumption is that Ford would rather sell Fusions than MKZs. Why?

 

MKZs make more profit, so why would Ford shave MKZ production to build more Fusions?

[ausrutherford]

Your assumption is that Ford would rather sell Fusions than MKZs. Why?

 

MKZs make more profit, so why would Ford shave MKZ production to build more Fusions?

 

Production was/is at max capacity for both May 2009 and May 2010. The Fusion was up around the same amount the Milan and MkZ was down. Theres no way to get around that fact. Its just a matter of putting two and two together.

[RichardJensen]

Production was/is at max capacity for both May 2009 and May 2010. The Fusion was up around the same amount the Milan and MkZ was down. Theres no way to get around that fact. Its just a matter of putting two and two together.

 

Let me ask this question again:

 

Why did Ford INCREASE Fusion production at the EXPENSE of MKZ production, if Ford makes more profits on MKZs than on Fusions?

[RichardJensen]

BTW, you do know that May sales represent April and March production, right?

[papilgee4evaeva]

hopefully they won't be ABLE to be as sneaky...

...meaning the MKfoCus will be so different that it could never confused with or disguised as the non-MucK variety

 

Here we go... :rolleyes:

[ausrutherford]

Let me ask this question again:

 

Why did Ford INCREASE Fusion production at the EXPENSE of MKZ production, if Ford makes more profits on MKZs than on Fusions?

 

How would I know why they would do it?

[ausrutherford]

BTW, you do know that May sales represent April and March production, right?

 

yes, i know, I was just saying that as a figure of speech. Nonetheless, my theory still holds water when you look at the numbers.

[jpd80]

Your assumption is that Ford would rather sell Fusions than MKZs. Why?

 

MKZs make more profit, so why would Ford shave MKZ production to build more Fusions?

edit,

I know they would rather sell Fusions than Milans, maybe that's part of it..

 

Perhaps they're built in runs and MKZ's inventory was high enough to allow Ford to concentrate on increasing Fusion demand, they could be making a higher mix of mid/high series there too...

Edited June 4, 2010 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

How would I know why they would do it?

Because there's higher DEMAND for the Fusion than the MKZ.

 

Thus MKZ sales are not being 'artificially' capped by Fusion production.

 

And if there is limited demand for the MKZ, why would you assume that there will be great demand for an even smaller and less expensive Lincoln?

[RichardJensen]

yes, i know, I was just saying that as a figure of speech. Nonetheless, my theory still holds water when you look at the numbers.

 

What?

 

You mean to tell me that you deliberately made an incorrect statement in your previous post?

 

You -deliberately- said "May 2010" when you meant "March/April 2010"?

 

How is -that- a 'figure of speech'.

 

Furthermore, what is your theory, exactly?

 

The theory that the MKZ is supply constrained because Ford would rather sell a Fusion with a lower profit margin? What kind of a theory is that?

[RichardJensen]

Perhaps they're built in runs and MKZ's inventory was high enough to allow Ford to concentrate on increasing Fusion demand, they could be making a higher mix of mid/high series there too...

 

ausrutherford's numbers weren't May -production- numbers, they were May sales numbers, which basically reflect production from the previous two months (and possibly even farther back for sales in Canada & Brazil due to transportation).

[jpd80]

Because there's higher DEMAND for the Fusion than the MKZ.

 

Thus MKZ sales are not being 'artificially' capped by Fusion production.

 

And if there is limited demand for the MKZ, why would you assume that there will be great demand for an even smaller and less expensive Lincoln?

Because it's a different vehicle and the people aspiring to own a Lincoln

without paying the $40- 50K are not BMW, Mercedes, AUDI aspirants.

 

I suspect this is what Ford market research is now showing that buyers who

graduate from volume production cars are the targets, not 1 series refugees...

 

The first company that gets C Sized Luxury right will grab that niche,

it could easily be that the baby Lincoln is a compact masquerading as a true mid sizer......

 

C1 Focus has 2" more shoulder and hip room compared to

the US Focus you see every day, that's a huge difference.

Edited June 4, 2010 by jpd80

[rmc523]

Production was/is at max capacity for both May 2009 and May 2010. The Fusion was up around the same amount the Milan and MkZ was down. Theres no way to get around that fact. Its just a matter of putting two and two together.

 

Well now they'll be able to increase production of BOTH the Fusion AND MKZ because Milan is out of the way....

[jpd80]

ausrutherford's numbers weren't May -production- numbers, they were May sales numbers, which basically reflect production from the previous two months (and possibly even farther back for sales in Canada & Brazil due to transportation).

I see what you mean, I don't believe MKZ numbers are capped,

due to low sales volume they are usually built to order and most

likely have relatively low inventory numbers because of that.

 

There's no guarantee that cutting retail prices of Lincolns would add any sales,

maybe in another life, that would have been the role of a revitalized Mercury

Edited June 4, 2010 by jpd80

[ausrutherford]

What?

 

You mean to tell me that you deliberately made an incorrect statement in your previous post?

 

You -deliberately- said "May 2010" when you meant "March/April 2010"?

 

How is -that- a 'figure of speech'.

 

Furthermore, what is your theory, exactly?

 

The theory that the MKZ is supply constrained because Ford would rather sell a Fusion with a lower profit margin? What kind of a theory is that?

 

I was merely saying that the production that feeds May sales was at max capacity in both years.

 

You have another theory as to why MkZ and Milan were both down in the same month while the Fusion was hugely up? Go by your Local LM dealer and compare the inventories. My LM dealer has a toal of 4 MkZ/Milans combined while the 3 Ford dealers have like 50 Fusions. And last time I checked Milan/MkZ sales are not 1/12 of that of the Fusion.

[RichardJensen]

You have another theory as to why MkZ and Milan were both down in the same month while the Fusion was hugely up?

 

Yes. Ford builds what they can sell, and it's easier to sell the Fusion than the MKZ.

 

Your assertion as to the potential of the MKC to outsell the MKZ was based on the assumption that MKZ demand is not being met. I am of the opinion that it is being met at this volume at least as well as Fusion volume is being met.

[RichardJensen]

I suspect this is what Ford market research is now showing that buyers who

graduate from volume production cars are the targets, not 1 series refugees...

 

The first company that gets C Sized Luxury right will grab that niche,

Buyers who graduate from Fusions, Accords, and the like will have the means to afford an MKZ and likely the desire to own a car of at least that size.

 

I find it hard to believe that enough Fusion/Accord/Camry buyers will say, "Hey, you know what? We're doing alright for ourselves these days. Let's splurge. Let's spend as much as we spent on our last car, only we'll buy a smaller Lincoln instead."

 

And that, IMO, is why it's not a question of getting compact luxury 'right'.

 

Arguably, BMW has already gotten 'compact luxury' right, as they've turned the compact class 3-Series into what is, IIRC, the most popular 'luxury' vehicle on the planet.

[rmc523]

Buyers who graduate from Fusions, Accords, and the like will have the means to afford an MKZ and likely the desire to own a car of at least that size.

 

I find it hard to believe that enough Fusion/Accord/Camry buyers will say, "Hey, you know what? We're doing alright for ourselves these days. Let's splurge. Let's spend as much as we spent on our last car, only we'll buy a smaller Lincoln instead."

 

And that, IMO, is why it's not a question of getting compact luxury 'right'.

 

Arguably, BMW has already gotten 'compact luxury' right, as they've turned the compact class 3-Series into what is, IIRC, the most popular 'luxury' vehicle on the planet.

 

What about the buyer that graduates from a Focus or something and likes that size vehicle, but wants a luxury version?

[jpd80]

If Ford wants to take Lincoln international and sell it through Ford dealers in the rest of the world, the best vehicles for that would be C1 and CD4 in sedans and crossovers because they can be supplied in Ecoboost and diesel versions.....

Edited June 5, 2010 by jpd80