NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1046423_2011-hyundai-equus-genesis-to-get-429-hp-5-0-liter-tau-v-8 I really hope Ford is paying attention here and doing its due dilligence with their new planned Lincoln models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 I wonder if they'll stuff it in a Genesis Coupe..that would be VERY interesting...for the Mustang and Camaro As for the Equus and Genesis Sedan...their biggest problem (outside of crappy resale values down the road) is the name in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 I wonder if they'll stuff it in a Genesis Coupe..that would be VERY interesting...for the Mustang and Camaro From what I understand, even the 4.6 Tau doesn't fit in the Genesis coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Good! This will keep the fire going in the product development department. Ford will have to do something about the 8-speed transmissions that are appearing in other makes, to remain competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Beef up the tranny, turn up the screws on the EB, voila! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01FOCI Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Well, once you get to a certain higher price point I think the allure of or perhaps even the perception of fuel efficiency takes a back seat to things like power, handling, looks and intrinsic value. What Ford might want to do if they want a true competitor yet more efficient and green perceptive engine would be to build an EB V-8, the BMW 760 already has what is essentially an EB V-12 which makes a 535 HP and 550 lbs but starts at a breathtaking $137,000. The more plebeian 740i starts at 70,150 with a TT DOHC DI 3.0L I6 with 315hp. So I guess what I am trying to convey is that if Lincoln wants a true flagship sedan that competes above a well optioned Buick they better start thinking EB V-8's and rear wheel drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 The v-8 won't fit in the coupe also from what I predicted before and how current Genesis sales numbers are no-one's lookin for a "Hyundai Camaro" or a "Hyundai 300". Ford have the motors to beat anything Hyundai (3.5 tt /6.2/ 5.0), the problem is Ford don't have a car to put them in (Shitstang excluded), a Stang' based Lincoln Mark 9 would be nice but oh it will sell, god forbid Ford makes rwd cars that people will buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 The v-8 won't fit in the coupe also from what I predicted before and how current Genesis sales numbers are no-one's lookin for a "Hyundai Camaro" or a "Hyundai 300". Ford have the motors to beat anything Hyundai (3.5 tt /6.2/ 5.0), the problem is Ford don't have a car to put them in (Shitstang excluded), a Stang' based Lincoln Mark 9 would be nice but oh it will sell, god forbid Ford makes rwd cars that people will buy. Is there a reason you always refer to Ford's most recognizable model as the "Shitstang"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgts Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Is there a reason you always refer to Ford's most recognizable model as the "Shitstang"? Because Ford can offer several modren rwd cars on the same platform rather then just one coupe and forcing buyers either to buy a "Stang dude" or buy from another carmaker. Hyundai, i still wouldn't buy thier crap but they on the right track with offering 3 rwds, a high-end sedan a mid-level sedan and a coupe. Chrysler have this also except bigger sale numbers. Gm ani't all there ethier but you can buy more then one rwd coupe with a few rwd sedans comming down the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Because Ford can offer several modren rwd cars on the same platform rather then just one coupe and forcing buyers either to buy a "Stang dude" or buy from another carmaker. Hyundai, i still wouldn't buy thier crap but they on the right track with offering 3 rwds, a high-end sedan a mid-level sedan and a coupe. Chrysler have this also except bigger sale numbers. Gm ani't all there ethier but you can buy more then one rwd coupe with a few rwd sedans comming down the pipe. Ford was limited in resources when they developed the D2C chassis for the Mustang. It cannot really be stretched or widened and still be built at AAI, which limits what other vehicles can be based on it. So, no, Ford really can't offer several modern RWD cars on the same platform at this time. Could there be a Lincoln coupe based on it? Perhaps. Is there enough market there for it though and would it be worth adding an IRS? A solid axle surely wouldn't do. I'm hoping the next generation Mustang chassis is more flexible, but I still don't see where the current chassis = "shitstang". As for Hyundai and Chrysler -- yeah, they are offering them, but are they selling them? The Genesis sedan and coupe combined are selling under 2000 units a month. On the Chrysler side, the only one that is really moving in decent numbers is the fleet-heavy Charger. Challenger and 300 are only moving a few thousand a month these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Is there a reason you always refer to Ford's most recognizable model as the "Shitstang"? To get a reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) Falcon and Mustang as loosely related derivatives on the same platform: Mustang, Falcon (T'Bird), Fairlane (Town Car replacement) Territory (High Series RWD/AWD Lincoln). Oh and of course, the one in my Avatar - a 1 ton half chassis pick up. Edited June 23, 2010 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 23, 2010 Author Share Posted June 23, 2010 Falcon and Mustang as loosely related derivatives on the same platform: Mustang, Falcon (T'Bird), Fairlane (Town Car replacement) Territory (High Series RWD/AWD Lincoln). Oh and of course, the one in my Avatar - a 1 ton half chassis pick up. See, you run into issues there though trying to make a one-size-fits-all RWD chassis, as has been mentioned numerous times here. Either the sedan variants will not be large enough or the coupe variants will likely end up being too porky, just like the Camaro and Challenger. There's no simple solution it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 See, you run into issues there though trying to make a one-size-fits-all RWD chassis, as has been mentioned numerous times here. Either the sedan variants will not be large enough or the coupe variants will likely end up being too porky, just like the Camaro and Challenger. There's no simple solution it seems. It's been reported that Ford is very happy with the amount of sharing between the Mustang and Falcon going forward (suspension components, electrical, engines) while each car will still be able to retain the aspects of the architecture that make them "fit." Falcon nor Mustang will be a part of the GRWD program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 To get a reaction. That's what trolls do! :blah: :blah: :blah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 Falcon nor Mustang will be a part of the GRWD program. Then what would be left for GRWD? If it's a larger architecture, the Falcon could use it. If it's a smaller architecture, the Mustang could use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Then what would be left for GRWD? If it's a larger architecture, the Falcon could use it. If it's a smaller architecture, the Mustang could use it. It's larger than either the Mustang or the Falcon... all the hubbub last year about the Falcon getting "replaced" by the Taurus in AU was started when it was said that the Taurus was going to be sold down under. Most assumed it was meant to replace the Falcon, but it's going to slot above it, allowing the Falcon to continue being what it's supposed to be. (the Taurus' presence would keep the Falcon from having to cover both the mid and full sized segments) So what's left for GRWD? Full-sized Ford sedan, Lincoln coupe and sedan, and a few RWD SUVs (Possibly next-gen Explorer?). Let's not forget that the GRWD program was started primarily to provide a Panther replacement... the Mustang and Falcon were dropped from the program early on because their respective unique requirements. Falcon and Mustang were then joined to share engines, electrical, and suspension components going forward. So, the latest info I got (aggregated from a few in-the-know posters and first hand info) would paint it out this way: Mustang - unique platform that will continue to "evolve" on it's own schedule Falcon - unique platform, spawning next-gen MKZ (could be built at AAI?) and possible Ford sport sedan GRWD - Ford sedan, Lincoln sedan (MKS?), Lincoln coupe, Ford SUV (Explorer?), possible Lincoln SUV (Avaitor-ish as it was described to be) Don't forget that the 2013 Fusion will be merged with the Mondeo, meaning getting the MKZ off the CD platform and out of Hermosillo could allow that plant to flex Fusion and Mondeo production for export if need be, or to keep up with growing US demand. Also, with the Taurus likely moving to a stretched CD platform in the next-gen, the MKS could be moved onto GRWD to further differentiate it from the Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Also, with the Taurus likely moving to a stretched CD platform in the next-gen, the MKS could be moved onto GRWD to further differentiate it from the Taurus. Or keep the MKS with the Taurus on the SCD4 platform and make the RWD the Flagship Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Or keep the MKS with the Taurus on the SCD4 platform and make the RWD the Flagship Lincoln Possible, but at the pricepoint that the MKS is already at (with extremely high transaction prices to boot), I think that the S should be the RWD Flagship... and should be called Continental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 Possible, but at the pricepoint that the MKS is already at (with extremely high transaction prices to boot), I think that the S should be the RWD Flagship... and should be called Continental. Ugh. Please don''t revive the Continental name. It just sounds....old. And well, there's plenty of room above the MKS's pricepoint for a flagship. Have you priced the flagships from everybody else lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 Ugh. Please don''t revive the Continental name. It just sounds....old. And well, there's plenty of room above the MKS's pricepoint for a flagship. Have you priced the flagships from everybody else lately? Didn't mean to start a naming debate (though I'm really hoping to see a move away from the Em-Kay-__ scheme). FWD/AWD and RWD/AWD full sizers could coexist, but there are several holes in the lineup that should be patched before we get to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 24, 2010 Author Share Posted June 24, 2010 but there are several holes in the lineup that should be patched before we get to that. Like what? It's almost certain that they will be getting a small CUV and possibly a small sedan. The only other "gaps" I really perceive are far more niche than a fullsize flagship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) Like what? It's almost certain that they will be getting a small CUV and possibly a small sedan. The only other "gaps" I really perceive are far more niche than a fullsize flagship. I guess my big point is that the MKS is already their full-sized flagship, weather they like it or not. If you're going to build another full-sizer, this time on a RWD/AWD setup, what's the point of keeping the MKS around? If it's joined at the hip to the Taurus, you'll have to restrict features from the Ford to keep the Lincoln competitive. My ideal Lincoln lineup: cars- MKC, Focus-based 2+2 coupe / convertible MKZ, Falcon-based sedan. MKR, GRWD-based coupe and convertible MKS, GRWD-based sedan crossovers- MKG, C-segment 5 seater MKX, C/D segment 5 seater MKT, Full-sized crossover, not sure if this should continue SUVs- Aviator, GRWD based 5/7passenger Navigator, F-150 based full sizer Now, if the MKS and GRWD Flagship were to coexist, I'd use the GRWD under an MKR sedan and MKR Coupe, with the Taurus-based MKS slotting below. Here's an idea... If the MKZ moves onto the Falcon architecture, and the market would accept it, the next generation MKX could also move onto that platform and perhaps have some commonality with the Z/Falcon/Territory. This would leave the MKG as a FWD/AWD crossover and the MKX as a RWD/AWD crossover. I'm not sure that the market is clamoring for RWD sporting CUVs, but it could be used as a point of differentiation between the G and X. Edited June 24, 2010 by PREMiERdrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 If it's joined at the hip to the Taurus, you'll have to restrict features from the Ford to keep the Lincoln competitive. The problem with that? EVERY Lincoln will be 'joined at the hip' with a comparable Ford product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted June 24, 2010 Share Posted June 24, 2010 The problem with that? EVERY Lincoln will be 'joined at the hip' with a comparable Ford product. Guess I didn't really think that one through, eh? I'm just not sure of having two full sizers in the lineup, but if done correctly it could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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