Deanh Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Regarding the Fusion S, about the only thing it doesn't have is fog lights. Big deal. My 2002 Taurus SES Sport doesn't have fog lights. And the Fusion S comes standard with alloy wheels, not plastic chrome rims like the Fusion SE mounted on steel wheels. And it gets 10% better fuel mileage and is best in class like Ford likes to brag about. The ONLY Fusion S I have ever seen had one option and otherwise good list of features. It was also stickered under a Focus SEL in price with same gas mileage highway wise with much more room and comfort. I just don't believe Ford buyers can't see the value in the phantom Fusion S. The pattern has been set....Ford is out to produce S models in very limited quantities for pretty much advertising purposes only knowing full well most Ford customers can't get their hands on one without custom ordering one and waiting months for it to come in. Or SFE models or whatever they call it. we order the occasional S model, but fact is they are generally for advertising purposes ( we all KNOW how you guys levitate to ludicrously low come on prices ) and thus loss leaders to tempt those thus bent. However when one veiws the content upgrades just by going to an SE, and witness's better incentives and lease programs on a more optioned vehicle for but a few extra bucks, then its pretty easy to see the dealerships angle. Its about what moves and is fiscally viable, not taking a loss or performing a polite favor to a target audience of 1%....why would a dealer use up valuable allocation for those reasonings.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 we order the occasional S model, but fact is they are generally for advertising purposes ( we all KNOW how you guys levitate to ludicrously low come on prices ) and thus loss leaders to tempt those thus bent. However when one veiws the content upgrades just by going to an SE, and witness's better incentives and lease programs on a more optioned vehicle for but a few extra bucks, then its pretty easy to see the dealerships angle. Its about what moves and is fiscally viable, not taking a loss or performing a polite favor to a target audience of 1%....why would a dealer use up valuable allocation for those reasonings.... I'm generally not the kind of person that believes there is a conspiracy behind every story, but when it comes to the Fusion S, I'm very suspicious. A conspiracy between Ford and Dealers to keep it off lots since they know most buyers don't like the hassle of custom ordering vehicles and waiting for months on end. The Fusion S makes the Focus look overpriced. Who needs that competition and you can still use the Fusion S for advertising "best in class fuel mileage." I'm sure lots of customers asked about the 34mpg Fusion, and were discouraged by none on lot and hundreds of SE's on lot in every color and pricier stickers meaning higher transaction prices for Ford and more profit for dealer. I bet if a dealer had 10 Fusion S's on lot, they would be gone much quicker than 10 SE's. Easy bet to win. Hermosillo must be making Fusion S's everday, but most go to fleet and never see a dealer lot. I imagine that is same fate awaiting the 40mpg Fiesta. Dealers will try to push buyers into SES's and SEL's by not having the 40mpg Fiesta on lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'm generally not the kind of person that believes there is a conspiracy behind every story, but when it comes to the Fusion S, I'm very suspicious. A conspiracy between Ford and Dealers to keep it off lots since they know most buyers don't like the hassle of custom ordering vehicles and waiting for months on end. The Fusion S makes the Focus look overpriced. Who needs that competition and you can still use the Fusion S for advertising "best in class fuel mileage." I'm sure lots of customers asked about the 34mpg Fusion, and were discouraged by none on lot and hundreds of SE's on lot in every color and pricier stickers meaning higher transaction prices for Ford and more profit for dealer. I bet if a dealer had 10 Fusion S's on lot, they would be gone much quicker than 10 SE's. Easy bet to win. Hermosillo must be making Fusion S's everday, but most go to fleet and never see a dealer lot. I imagine that is same fate awaiting the 40mpg Fiesta. Dealers will try to push buyers into SES's and SEL's by not having the 40mpg Fiesta on lot. exact opposite here...they ( if financing ) would rather pay an additional $20 a month for the upgrades...or, get this....LESS if they lease the car due to the S models residual being lower....as for the Fiesta gauging by what custom ers have ordered....they are all SE's and above....and based on that THOSE are what we are also ordering for stock.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 apologies if this sounds like a pitch...but perhaps it will help those screaming conspiracy to understand why dealers do not stock too many S's. Aside from limited allocation, apples to apple the MSRP differences are $1500, invoice to invoice less than $1200, financing thats ( 0% ) $20 a month, for that you get upgradedstereo, floor mats, fog lights, fold flat pass seat, body colored morrors, Satellite radio, redundant wheel controls and 1 inch bigger wheels and two more exterior color choices, and two more interior color choices......not to mention other options such as Sync ( N/A on the S model ) And if you are a lease customer the residual is 3 points higher on the SE....so payments work out potentially less, what choice would YOU make....the sales numbers dont lie, theres a reason buyers gravitate to the SE and up, and therein lies the reason for the dealers decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 As for the Fiesta, I figured something was up when EPA on manual is only 37mpg. No way is auto going to give you 3mpg extra. The automatic in the Fiesta (and Fusion and Honda Fit) has a higher top gear than the manual. So it is not too much of a surprise that the EPA highway number for the automatic is a bit better. It is also to be noted that when the EPA tests manual transmission cars, they use a fixed shift schedule, regardless of whether the shift points are appropriate for the vehicle. The shift points are: 1->2 15mph 2->3 25mph 3->4 40mph 4->5 45mph (5 or more speeds) 5->6 50mph (6 or more speeds) Most manual cars that I have driven can be upshifted at lower speeds than the EPA shift points. So manual cars may be disadvantaged in the EPA ratings in this way, while automatic transmissions can be programmed to optimize fuel economy under EPA test conditions. That may be why a manual driver driving for fuel economy may be able to beat the EPA numbers by a greater margin than an automatic driver. Of course, a manual driver could also get much worse fuel economy by redlining every gear before upshifting. The EPA does allow manufacturers to add an upshift light in the dash, but they need to do a weighted average between the upshift light and the EPA's shift schedule based on the percentage of drivers who shift by the upshift light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) we order the occasional S model, but fact is they are generally for advertising purposes ( we all KNOW how you guys levitate to ludicrously low come on prices ) and thus loss leaders to tempt those thus bent. Back in early 2009, a local Ford dealer had three new 2009 (pre-refresh) Fusion S manuals on the lot. They advertised them for $11,988 (three at this price) in local newspapers. Granted, this was when few people were buying any new cars, but even by early 2009 standards, this was a screaming deal for someone who wanted a Fusion and was willing to use a manual transmission. It was months before even one of them was bought, based on checking the dealer's inventory on the web site. Edited June 30, 2010 by tjl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share Posted July 1, 2010 exact opposite here...they ( if financing ) would rather pay an additional $20 a month for the upgrades...or, get this....LESS if they lease the car due to the S models residual being lower....as for the Fiesta gauging by what custom ers have ordered....they are all SE's and above....and based on that THOSE are what we are also ordering for stock.... You know what...let's just say the Fusion gets 31mpg highway and the Fiesta 38mpg highway and leave it at that. The pie in the sky Fusion S and Fiesta XFE or whatever are for most part not available for those who buy from mega dealer stock inventory. Forget this nonsense about 40mpg Fiestas and 34mpg Fusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Galpin Ford in North hills CA has 9 on the lot, ranging from 13K to 20 large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 You know what...let's just say the Fusion gets 31mpg highway and the Fiesta 38mpg highway and leave it at that. The pie in the sky Fusion S and Fiesta XFE or whatever are for most part not available for those who buy from mega dealer stock inventory. Forget this nonsense about 40mpg Fiestas and 34mpg Fusions. The dealers I mentioned are Houston metro dealers and aren't small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_in_va Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I always say skip the options and keep the cash. In 99 I sought out an Escort LX without the tape player. When Im ready to buy my Fiesta the dealer that gets my business will be the one with an S in stock. I'm not going to spend $500-$1000 more on an SE just because it's what's in stock. The stereo, sync, power windows, whatever, just not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang_sallad Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 photos please! I have yet to see one at a dealer or on the road. Looking forward to it! And I have been since I first heard rumors of Ford getting back into the b-segment maybe 4 or 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey61 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 news alert, the SFE package has been integrated across the board...all the aero tweeks have been mandated....not the ONLY difference apparently is T rated tires....and the 38mpg makes me curious, not like Fords SANDBAGGING again is it, because in several constant speed tests I have seen 43 mpgs, and that was on the 5 speed. So what you're are saying is that, as of right now all new Fiestas that are equiped with the automatic transmission get 40 mpg highway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 You know what...let's just say the Fusion gets 31mpg highway and the Fiesta 38mpg highway and leave it at that. The pie in the sky Fusion S and Fiesta XFE or whatever are for most part not available for those who buy from mega dealer stock inventory. Forget this nonsense about 40mpg Fiestas and 34mpg Fusions. Using http://www.fordvehicles.com , I did a cursory check of Fusion inventory at about nine local dealers. Four or five of them had one Fusion S each (all automatic transmission). So the Fusion S automatic with EPA ratings of 23/34 does exist on the ground, but is not that common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I did an inventory search of Fiestas on http://www.fordvehicles.com on five local dealers. Most of the arrivals are hatchbacks. Only a few are sedans, and most of those are S trim (the rest SE -- no SEL). The hatchbacks were all over the place in terms of options (both SE and SES trims were well represented). It appears that many of them are pre-orders, since the window stickers list accessories like the cargo management package, keyless entry keypad, remote start, etc.. Each dealer seemed to have a different mix of trims and options, which would be consistent with many of the cars being pre-orders. At least one of the cars has a moonroof, even though that option was supposed to be delayed availability. Most cars have automatic transmissions, but the manual transmission percentage appears to be higher than typical for Ford dealer stock. All of the window stickers list EPA fuel economy as 28/37 (manual) or 29/38 (automatic). None of the cars has the SFE package which would give EPA fuel economy of 29/40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 So what you're are saying is that, as of right now all new Fiestas that are equiped with the automatic transmission get 40 mpg highway? nope...you missed the T rated tires.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I always say skip the options and keep the cash. In 99 I sought out an Escort LX without the tape player. When Im ready to buy my Fiesta the dealer that gets my business will be the one with an S in stock. I'm not going to spend $500-$1000 more on an SE just because it's what's in stock. The stereo, sync, power windows, whatever, just not worth it. Mike...if that floats your boat then so be it...however you represent an infintesimal % of the people that will buy the fiesta and thus dealers inventory will be stocked to reflect just that....expect 1 out of 30 Fiestas to be base S models..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 nope...you missed the T rated tires.... From what I understand, the SFE tires are 195/60/15 . What size are the non-SFE tires? Various sources list 185/65/15 or 185/60/15. If the non-SFE tires are 185/60/15, then the larger diameter of the SFE tires (by about 2-3%) likely helps fuel economy by effectively making the gearing higher. If the non-SFE tires are 185/65/15, then that is very close to the same diameter as the SFE tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 From what I understand, the SFE tires are 195/60/15 . What size are the non-SFE tires? Various sources list 185/65/15 or 185/60/15. If the non-SFE tires are 185/60/15, then the larger diameter of the SFE tires (by about 2-3%) likely helps fuel economy by effectively making the gearing higher. If the non-SFE tires are 185/65/15, then that is very close to the same diameter as the SFE tires. cant rightfully tell you, i know the SEL, and SES go to 16 inch wheels....but the think the T rated tyres indicate low rolling resistance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillSD Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 (edited) From what I understand, the SFE tires are 195/60/15 . What size are the non-SFE tires? Various sources list 185/65/15 or 185/60/15. If the non-SFE tires are 185/60/15, then the larger diameter of the SFE tires (by about 2-3%) likely helps fuel economy by effectively making the gearing higher. If the non-SFE tires are 185/65/15, then that is very close to the same diameter as the SFE tires. Standard tire is 185/65R15. SFE tire is 195/60R15. Upgrade tire (SEL/SES) is 195/50R16. Edited July 1, 2010 by WillSD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjl Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Standard tire is 185/65R15. SFE tire is 195/60R15. Upgrade tire (SEL/SES) is 195/50R16. The standard 185/65/15 size happens to be the same size as that used on the 2004-2009 Toyota Prius. There are several low rolling resistance (good fuel economy) tires available in that size. Tire Rack tested several of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 From what I understand, the SFE tires are 195/60/15 . What size are the non-SFE tires? Various sources list 185/65/15 or 185/60/15. If the non-SFE tires are 185/60/15, then the larger diameter of the SFE tires (by about 2-3%) likely helps fuel economy by effectively making the gearing higher. If the non-SFE tires are 185/65/15, then that is very close to the same diameter as the SFE tires. 15" tires (non-SFE, S & SE models): Kumho Solus KH25, size 185/60R15, H speed rating 15" tires (SFE, SE model): Hankook Optimo H725, size 195/60R15, T speed rating 16" tires (non-SFE, SES & SEL models): Hankook Optimo H426, size 195/50R16, H speed rating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 15" tires (non-SFE, S & SE models): Kumho Solus KH25, size 185/60R15, H speed rating 15" tires (SFE, SE model): Hankook Optimo H725, size 195/60R15, T speed rating 16" tires (non-SFE, SES & SEL models): Hankook Optimo H426, size 195/50R16, H speed rating well as soon as those POS wear out it will be either Michelins or bF Goodrich..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 How many can even pronounce that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 How many can even pronounce that? The way I imagine you pronounce Kumho could get you some strange looks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted July 2, 2010 Share Posted July 2, 2010 The way I imagine you pronounce Kumho could get you some strange looks... I think they are called "Cougars" today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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