Chevy Volt Pricing

[FordBuyer]

GM are going to be smart by offering good leases the Volt for around $350/month with around $2,500 down.

I understand what you're saying with equipment levels and not all buyers would want a loaded C car

but still as I said, the Volt is basically a good idea. Perhaps subsidies and leasing is the way of the future for EVs...

 

I'm curious to know what price Ford will put on their next gen hybrid Focus, and next gen Ecoboost version.

Perhaps Ford's global economies of scale will keep GM more than honest in the pricing department.

 

The batteries alone cost about $7,500,don't they? Add in the gas generator and software to mesh both, and I'm sure the Volt will cost quite a bit more than full electric Focus. I would imagine the EV Focus would priced similar to the Leaf.

[RangerM]

I read the Leaf's battery is made up of "modules" making a complete replacement unnecessary. Simply replace a single (assuming cheaper) module, and off you go.

Edited July 28, 2010 by RangerM

[AGR]

how many miles can this thing go before it needs to stop and plug in somewhere?

It doesn't have to plug at all. It will run all day, as long as there is gas in the tank...but it doesn't make sense to buy one and NOT plug it in.

[nelsonlu]

Yep, I'm thinking the same thing. All we are doing is shifting our energy use from one dirty source to another. There are over 600 coal burning power plants operating in America. And they supply like 90% of our electrical needs. Wind and solar supply less than .5%. On top of that, it's almost impossible to obtain a permit for a new power plant. So the utility industry couldn't handle million of EV's anyway. And even if it could it wouldn't change our carbon foot print significantly. We would have to build hundreds of nuclear power plants to make a difference and it takes 10 years just to go through licensing process. It will generations before any meaningful change takes place.

 

First of all, electricity generation is more efficient than burning gas, so there is still substantial carbon footprint savings there.

 

Second, while most of the electricity generation still requires burning fossil fuel, a portion does not. I'd say that if we can save 5%, we save 5% rather than simply give up.

[nelsonlu]

how many miles can this thing go before it needs to stop and plug in somewhere?

 

Assuming 50 MPG on gas (which is what the Prius gets, and their engines are pretty comparable) and an 8-gallon tank, the range should be 440 miles. Not as long as my Fusion Hybrid, but longer than the majority of sedans on the market.

[nelsonlu]

I'd say the best comparison to the Volt would be the Cruze, considering they share bodystyle (4 doors) and platform (GM Delta).

 

The problem is that it's impossible to price a Cruze right now; Chevrolet's current C-segment car is still the Cobalt here. Cobalt is severely out of date and isn't really comparable to the Volt.

 

What I decided to price it against is the Honda Civic. (I would have done the Focus except that the current Focus doesn't have navigation available at all except through Sync, and while Sync Navigation is pretty nifty (and free for now), it's not quite the same. Similarly, Nissan Sentra, Hyundai Accent, and Kia Forte all seem to not have it available. I thought I saw somewhere on the Toyota Web site that the Corolla is available with navigation, but I certainly can't seem to find a way to configure a Corolla with one.) It seems that the closest comparable trim level is the Civic EX + navigation + XM radio + remote engine start. It got up to $23,814 -- which is only $10K less than the Volt with the tax credit. (Also, Honda doesn't offer anything comparable to OnStar as far as I can tell (Ford does, but again, I can't price a next-generation Focus -- which I imagine will have navigation available -- right now).) A Civic Hybrid with navigation + XM radio (remote start doesn't seem to be an option) is $26,862.

 

It still seems to me that a lot depends on driving pattern of the purchaser.

[jpd80]

The batteries alone cost about $7,500,don't they? Add in the gas generator and software to mesh both, and I'm sure the Volt will cost quite a bit more than full electric Focus. I would imagine the EV Focus would priced similar to the Leaf.

See, that's what I don't understand, a hybrid Fusion is around $28,000 and why you couldn't

simply add a long range battery for $4,000 is beyond me....

[twintornados]

.....I'd say that if we can save 5%, we save 5% rather than simply give up.

Would not suggest that we "give up"...all I am saying is if you are buying one to save on fuel costs alone, you are buying it for the wrong reason. Our national power grid needs a lot of work to "clean it up"....it has come along way from the bad old days of spewing tons of pollutants into the air...but, there are many more hurdles to surpass before they are considered "cleaner" than a gasoline powered modern sedan. Can a modern coal plant be labeled as "Partial Zero Emission"? Only when it is shut down for maintenance.

[nelsonlu]

Would not suggest that we "give up"...all I am saying is if you are buying one to save on fuel costs alone, you are buying it for the wrong reason. Our national power grid needs a lot of work to "clean it up"....it has come along way from the bad old days of spewing tons of pollutants into the air...but, there are many more hurdles to surpass before they are considered "cleaner" than a gasoline powered modern sedan. Can a modern coal plant be labeled as "Partial Zero Emission"? Only when it is shut down for maintenance.

 

Obviously, you may claim that sites like these have an axe to grind (since they push plug-in conversion kits), but are you claiming that their figures, comparing emissions from power plants for plug-in vehicles, versus ICE emissions, are completely wrong? article arguing for PHEV While the biodiesel/ethanol part is simply not market-viable at this point (and not likely to be in the foreseeable future), there is nothing that I see that calls for skepticism about.

 

But in any case, your assertion "if you are buying one to save on fuel costs, alone, you are buying it for the wrong reasons," is itself problematic. First, for some (not many), there will be a fuel cost savings. Second, in any auto purchase -- Volt or any other vehicle -- it is rare that one should be justifying a purchase on a single reason alone. For people to single out the Volt while, for example, not questioning even more questionable purchases -- recently, for example, I got yelled at for still no good reason that I can think of, for arguing that it is wasteful to trade in a 2010 Taurus for a 2011 Taurus (see this thread) just smacks of hypocrisy to me.

 

The Volt is not going to be the right vehicle for everyone, or even close to a large segment of the population. But for the 10,000 who will buy it in the first year, and more later on, it is going to reduce their carbon footprint. Whether it also saves them money will depend on their driving pattern.

 

As I wrote above, the price of a Volt vs., for example, a comparably equipped Honda Civic, is actually substantially smaller than the Volt's detractors are claiming. A lot of things will change the equation of that: for example, as I will acknowledge, in a state with high sales tax rates but no additional state tax credit for the Volt (e.g., California -- 9% sales tax, while the Volt currently won't qualify for a $5,000 state tax credit for electric vehicles -- although there is some legislative and regulatory discussions that may change that, although I wouldn't advise anyone to count on a law change there) the Volt will make even less sense. In a state that has a state tax credit and/or no or low sales tax, the Volt will make more sense. In a state that has high gas prices, the Volt will make more sense.

 

Let's take the example of someone who drives 60 miles a day on weekdays and 20 miles a day on weekends, for a total of 340 miles a week (17680 per 52-week-year, which I think is not significantly off from a typical commuter usage). Let's assume gas is $3 per gallon regular and $3.25 per gallon premium, electricity costs $50 per 7,500 miles (which is basically the double of what the Edmunds folks came up with in their MiniE one-year test, to account for accounting errors as well as the higher residential rates), 50 MPG for the Volt on gas, no state sales tax, and no state tax credits. For this driver, the Volt will be on electricity for 240 miles per week, or 12,480 miles per year, for a $83.20 electricity cost. He/she will also spend 5,200 miles on gas, and, assuming that the Volt does need premium, $338 on gas, for a total of $421 total fuel cost. Assuming the same figures in a calculation with the Honda Civic (which I assume only requires regular gas), that's going to be $1,829 fuel cost per year. The Volt saves, under this calculation, $1,408 per year in fuel costs, so it pays back, money-wise, in a little less than seven years. If you account for time savings as well -- and time is money -- the Volt makes sense.

 

On the other hand, let's take a non-commuter who drives 15 miles a day, for a total of 5,460 miles per 52 weeks. That person will have, if we simplify the equation, $36.40 in electricity for the Volt and no gas cost. (In reality, it's not going to be quite $0, since the Volt will have to periodically turn on its ICE, but the cost will be fairly negligible.) That person, however, would only have $565 in gas costs with the Civic. It would take over 18 years for the Volt to pay off for itself for that person. In that case, the Volt would make absolutely no financial sense at all. (As an aside, this is actually pretty close to my mother's usage, and that's the reason why I'm not pushing her to replace her 2003 Grand Marquis yet. For her, who would want a nice and comfortable car and who should have one at her age -- and I don't think the Volt or the Civic really is -- the energy costs from the Grand Marquis are not worth replacing it until it really should be replaced.)

 

For this second person, however, the Nissan Leaf or the Focus EV, on the other hand, can make a lot of sense, even when no state tax credit is involved. This person's driving pattern is completely covered by the Leaf/Focus's 100-mile range within any conceivable reason. With the federal tax credit, the Leaf is going to be at $25,280 (and the Focus should be pretty close to the same), which would only be $1,466 more than the gas Civic. It pays for itself in less than three years. I would, however, not recommend a Leaf/Focus for the commuter in the first example even though it would pay off even sooner, because although his/her commute range would normally fit within the Leaf/Focus's 100-mile range, it cuts it too close that he/she does run the risk of running out of electricity if a detour suddenly becomes necessary, for example. (It is close as far as whether I'd recommend my mother to have one when she does finally decide to replace the Grand Marquis; again, the Leaf/Focus will completely cover her driving pattern, but I will have to wait and see if either of them is sufficiently comfortable for her. If not, again, at her age, I'm not going to recommend one for her even if it financially makes sense; it's not worth it overall to force her into a C-segment car.)

 

What I mean to say here, which should be obvious but doesn't seem to be for many people, is that whether any of these new vehicles makes sense for a person financially and otherwise depends a lot on the person's driving pattern. I am seeing too many broad assertions from people claiming that the Volt is too expensive. Whether it is, again, depends on the person's driving pattern.

[twintornados]

...What I mean to say here, which should be obvious but doesn't seem to be for many people, is that whether any of these new vehicles makes sense for a person financially and otherwise depends a lot on the person's driving pattern. I am seeing too many broad assertions from people claiming that the Volt is too expensive. Whether it is, again, depends on the person's driving pattern.

:reading: Ok...

[PREMiERdrum]

What I mean to say here, which should be obvious but doesn't seem to be for many people, is that whether any of these new vehicles makes sense for a person financially and otherwise depends a lot on the person's driving pattern. I am seeing too many broad assertions from people claiming that the Volt is too expensive. Whether it is, again, depends on the person's driving pattern.

 

I think spending $40,000 on a new "family" sedan is completely wasteful. :shades:

[akirby]

I think spending $40,000 on a new "family" sedan is completely wasteful. :shades:

 

POTW!

 

It would take between 10 and 16 years to recover the additional cost of the Volt over a nicely equipped C sized 4 door depending on whether you qualify for the tax rebate or not.

 

The best case is you only drive the volt 40 miles per day so no gas but let's say $30 in electricity for the month. A 4 cylinder Cruze or Focus would get 25 mpg combined (easily) so you're looking at $130/month in fuel costs for a net savings of $100/month or $1200/yr. You should be able to get the Cruze of Focus for $21K for a difference of $20K without the tax rebate or $12,500 with it.

[nelsonlu]

I think spending $40,000 on a new "family" sedan is completely wasteful. :shades:

 

Except that's really a $33,500 sedan that pays you back gas savings every year. Again, your driving pattern, which determines the size of that gas savings, determines whether it's worth it, but it would be incorrect to simply look at the sale price.

[nelsonlu]

POTW!

 

It would take between 10 and 16 years to recover the additional cost of the Volt over a nicely equipped C sized 4 door depending on whether you qualify for the tax rebate or not.

 

The best case is you only drive the volt 40 miles per day so no gas but let's say $30 in electricity for the month. A 4 cylinder Cruze or Focus would get 25 mpg combined (easily) so you're looking at $130/month in fuel costs for a net savings of $100/month or $1200/yr. You should be able to get the Cruze of Focus for $21K for a difference of $20K without the tax rebate or $12,500 with it.

 

There is no way that a Volt is going to cost $30 per month. Again, the Edmunds folks calculated their MiniE to cost $26 over their entire year of having it (about 7,500 miles). Even when accounting for the difference in commercial and residential rates, your assumptions are way off.

[akirby]

There is no way that a Volt is going to cost $30 per month. Again, the Edmunds folks calculated their MiniE to cost $26 over their entire year of having it (about 7,500 miles). Even when accounting for the difference in commercial and residential rates, your assumptions are way off.

 

Ok smarty pants. Make the electricity FREE. It still takes 8-13 years to break even. My assumptions are conservative.

[nelsonlu]

Ok smarty pants. Make the electricity FREE. It still takes 8-13 years to break even. My assumptions are conservative.

 

Except you assumed that the base Cruze and Focus are comparable. They're not. The Volt's standard equipment is comparable to a fairly fully-equipped C car - that's why I used the Civic EX, and even there to get it up to the Volt's standard equipment level you had to add navigation, XM, and remote start. I did the calculation above, which you obviously didn't bother to read. The difference is much smaller than you claim.

[PREMiERdrum]

Except you assumed that the base Cruze and Focus are comparable. They're not. The Volt's standard equipment is comparable to a fairly fully-equipped C car - that's why I used the Civic EX, and even there to get it up to the Volt's standard equipment level you had to add navigation, XM, and remote start. I did the calculation above, which you obviously didn't bother to read. The difference is much smaller than you claim.

 

You don't need all those fancy bells and whistles. They're just wasteful.

[nelsonlu]

You don't need all those fancy bells and whistles. They're just wasteful.

 

You're free to think that. I think that these days, navigation and satellite radio are pretty essential, and I got them for my Fusion Hybrid. Remote start I could do without, but in hotter regions it can become pretty essential as well.

[PREMiERdrum]

You're free to think that. I think that these days, navigation and satellite radio are pretty essential, and I got them for my Fusion Hybrid. Remote start I could do without, but in hotter regions it can become pretty essential as well.

 

I fail to see the difference between buying a new car every year, and spending thousands of dollars on plush niceties that you don't "need". Of course, I don't see a problem with either. :shades:

[akirby]

You're free to think that. I think that these days, navigation and satellite radio are pretty essential, and I got them for my Fusion Hybrid. Remote start I could do without, but in hotter regions it can become pretty essential as well.

 

It's no fun when the person you're making fun of doesn't get it.......

[jpd80]

Except you assumed that the base Cruze and Focus are comparable. They're not. The Volt's standard equipment is comparable to a fairly fully-equipped C car - that's why I used the Civic EX, and even there to get it up to the Volt's standard equipment level you had to add navigation, XM, and remote start. I did the calculation above, which you obviously didn't bother to read. The difference is much smaller than you claim.

 

A fully loaded C car for $26,000 to 28,000 is still a bit f a hard sell, especially when you have the Fusion hybrid sitting there. And lests be realistic here, for a few dollars more people can get a Lincoln MKZ hybrid for $36K compared to Cruze for $41,000 - don't for get you have to apply for the $7,500 rebate after you purchase the Volt.

[nelsonlu]

A fully loaded C car for $26,000 to 28,000 is still a bit f a hard sell, especially when you have the Fusion hybrid sitting there. And lests be realistic here, for a few dollars more people can get a Lincoln MKZ hybrid for $36K compared to Cruze for $41,000 - don't for get you have to apply for the $7,500 rebate after you purchase the Volt.

 

But again, it depends on usage. Depending on a person's usage, he/she can either be completely wasting time and money with a Volt, or the Volt could be saving him/her thousands of dollars over the course of ownership. The Fusion Hybrid really isn't comparable here because even with the Fusion Hybrid (which I love and would probably get another one), there are still substantial fuel costs, so it comes down to whether if people can live with the Volt's limitations to try to save even more money compared to the Fusion Hybrid.

 

As far as I am concerned, I am simply not comfortable driving a C-segment car over the very windy Altamont Pass (ideally, if there is such a thing as a Taurus Hybrid, I might consider it, but there isn't, and the Taurus doesn't fit in my garage, which means that I'd have to park it on the street), which my daily commute involves, and my commute is too long for the Volt to be worth it anyway. (85 miles each way is, on each day, over four times the electricity-only range of the Volt, by which time it is just too much like the Prius as far as fuel efficiency is concerned.) But the Volt can make perfect sense for someone who has a shorter commute, but not too much shorter.

Edited July 30, 2010 by nelsonlu

[jpd80]

But again, it depends on usage. Depending on a person's usage, he/she can either be completely wasting time and money with a Volt, or the Volt could be saving him/her thousands of dollars over the course of ownership. The Fusion Hybrid really isn't comparable here because even with the Fusion Hybrid (which I love and would probably get another one), there are still substantial fuel costs, so it comes down to whether if people can live with the Volt's limitations to try to save even more money compared to the Fusion Hybrid.

 

As far as I am concerned, I am simply not comfortable driving a C-segment car over the very windy Altamont Pass (ideally, if there is such a thing as a Taurus Hybrid, I might consider it, but there isn't, and the Taurus doesn't fit in my garage, which means that I'd have to park it on the street), which my daily commute involves, and my commute is too long for the Volt to be worth it anyway. (85 miles each way is, on each day, over four times the electricity-only range of the Volt, by which time it is just too much like the Prius as far as fuel efficiency is concerned.) But the Volt can make perfect sense for someone who has a shorter commute, but not too much shorter.

I can respect that view, it's just that Ford's coming strategy of offering 1) Ecoboost, 2) Hybrid and 3) battery Electric vehicles seems to cover the envelope of product and customer needs much better. I guess in the end, customers will decide just what vehicle or types of vehicles suit their needs the best.

[Anthony]

While Volt is basically a good idea (extended range EV), you're still buying a 16,000 car for $41,000 now $33,000.

You can buy a lot of gasoline for $17,000, the real battle remains making gas engines more efficient.

 

Because the Volt supposedly shares the same platform with the Cruze, it's automatically a $16k car? Using that rationale, that means the $44k Lincoln MKT is basically just a $25k car since it somewhat shares a platform with the Taurus.

 

Apparently platform sharing automatically devalues anything costing more then the lowest common denominator?

 

I'm no fan of the Volt for anything more then it's engineering, but that is a silly argument to make.

[jpd80]

Because the Volt supposedly shares the same platform with the Cruze, it's automatically a $16k car? Using that rationale, that means the $44k Lincoln MKT is basically just a $25k car since it somewhat shares a platform with the Taurus.

 

Apparently platform sharing automatically devalues anything costing more then the lowest common denominator?

 

I'm no fan of the Volt for anything more then it's engineering, but that is a silly argument to make.

What is even sillier is the notion of a fuel efficient C car for $33,500.

 

All of the examples you quoted are high series luxury versions but when the primary function of the vehicle is fuel economy, the last thing you should be doing is pumping up the costs with extras and making the vehicle even more expensive.

 

 

IMO, Volt could have been so much more appealing if it had been built as a Mid Sized car. GM could have picked any platform they wanted to showcase this technology, why they chose to market it as a compact with such cost restrictions is beyond comprehension...Imagine the appeal in a Crossover or even Mid sized sedan.

Edited August 1, 2010 by jpd80