Anthony Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 will be interesting to gauge which vehicle ( Focus Wagon/ Grand C-max ) earns the embrace of the buying public better. The Dad in me says the C-Max is more practical and might sell better then the wagon. However, I do like the Focus wagon. They are two vehicles with massive stigmas to overcome (Wagons and minivans). By targeting the the smaller vehicles (as opposed to larger wagons minivans) Ford might just find some buyers who favor practicability in a smaller (stylish) package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 It's a free country and it's your money. But I do believe for most people AWD/4WD SUV/CUV's are a big waste of money in an already tight budget for many. A weight and thus fuel penalty. For what? The once in a decade major blizzard? My FWD Taurus moves fine through the snow and have never been caught in the snow. My Taurus will carry my bike with rear seats folded down no problem. I even got a 66" by 34" board into the back with trunk lid closed no problem. A Focus wagon would be better with 40mpg highway, but for now the Taurus does fine. I'm sure some need an AWD vehicle like Edge, Explorer, Flex, but most don't and are just putting themselves into financial trouble that we all have to pay for one way or another. Ford just tried to get a refund on sales tax lost when their customers reneged on their new Ford vehicle loans. I would suppose many bought too much vehicle for their budgets just like many bought bigger house than they needed. That's more a problem with people buying new vs people who should be buying used, not necessarily people who should be buying a new SUV/CUV instead of a new station wagon. If you are so pressed for cash in your budget that a couple hundred bucks a month in car payments are going to break you, a new vehicle of any type probably shouldn't be in your future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 That's more a problem with people buying new vs people who should be buying used, not necessarily people who should be buying a new SUV/CUV instead of a new station wagon. If you are so pressed for cash in your budget that a couple hundred bucks a month in car payments are going to break you, a new vehicle of any type probably shouldn't be in your future. Let's see...a Focus hatch/wagon has I believe a 14 gallon tank and gets probably 32mpg in mixed driving. An Edge has I guess a 20 gallon gas tank and gets probably 20mpg in mixed driving assuming 50-50 mix. $56 vs. $80 for Edge to fill the tank if an when fuel hits $4/gallon again. And the Focus will get about 12 extra miles for every gallon used. So with every 20 gallons used, the Focus will go 240 miles further on average. That really adds up over the years. Many economists have claimed that $4 gas really pushed many families over the edge budget wise, especially those with big vehicles living in big houses many miles from work. Gas is really becoming a huge part of just about anyones budget. I really believe many don't budget in fuel costs and have no idea how much they spend on fuel for their vehicles. They don't keep gas receipts and try to ignore their checking balance until they get Insufficient Funds notice. So the more fuel sipper vehicles Ford comes out with the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I parked next to a VW Jetta wagon this morning. This looks a lot better and probably for less money. The specs for the Jetta Wagon are very close to the announced specs of the '12 Focus sedan VW/Focus Length 179.4 / 175.0 Width 70.1 / -?- W.B. 101.2 / 102.9 Height 59.2 / 58.6 Pass Volume 91.7 / 107.2 F H R 38.4 / 39.2 R H R 38.1 / 38.3 F L R 41.1 / 41.7 R L R 35.5 / 33.1 Ford could tap the small wagon market with a car they already build for Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Let's see...a Focus hatch/wagon has I believe a 14 gallon tank and gets probably 32mpg in mixed driving. An Edge has I guess a 20 gallon gas tank and gets probably 20mpg in mixed driving assuming 50-50 mix. $56 vs. $80 for Edge to fill the tank if an when fuel hits $4/gallon again. And the Focus will get about 12 extra miles for every gallon used. So with every 20 gallons used, the Focus will go 240 miles further on average. That really adds up over the years. Many economists have claimed that $4 gas really pushed many families over the edge budget wise, especially those with big vehicles living in big houses many miles from work. Gas is really becoming a huge part of just about anyones budget. I really believe many don't budget in fuel costs and have no idea how much they spend on fuel for their vehicles. They don't keep gas receipts and try to ignore their checking balance until they get Insufficient Funds notice. So the more fuel sipper vehicles Ford comes out with the better. 32mpg combined for the Focus is being pretty optimistic, at least currently. The Edge's tank is closer to 16 gallons. Any how...of course fuel costs matter, but if they matter that much, again, you probably shouldn't be considering any new vehicle at all. Of course, it's double-edged since used vehicles will usually get worse fuel economy than a comparable new one. I'm one of those who has no idea how much I spend to fuel my vehicles. I really don't care. I can't remember the last time I printed a gas receipt. I guess I'm one of those people GM's CEO was referring to: when the tank is empty, I fill it up. Of course, I haven't gotten an insufficient funds notice from the bank since I was an unemployed college student. I budget myself well enough elsewhere that my day-to-day spending is never a concern. Now, that doesn't mean I don't think Ford should focus resources on small, efficient cars. Of course they should. They will undoubtedly get more popular. However, I don't see some huge shift from SUV/CUV's to compact station wagons anytime soon, even with $4/gallon gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 During a reheasal for Ford press release for NAIAS, one Ford employee asked whether all of the Focus variant will be manufactured in US. Allen said "yes except the focus wagon". So, the focus wagons that will be sold in States will be made in Europe. I guess labor cost in Spain is cheaper than that in States. I find that hard to believe that it would make sense ONLY to import wagons The Dad in me says the C-Max is more practical and might sell better then the wagon. However, I do like the Focus wagon. I often wonder at times if the whole CUV is a sham and a way to make money for Manufactures...they can charge more for them then they can a wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 During a reheasal for Ford press release for NAIAS, one Ford employee asked whether all of the Focus variant will be manufactured in US. Allen said "yes except the focus wagon". So, the focus wagons that will be sold in States will be made in Europe. I guess labor cost in Spain is cheaper than that in States. Will be interesting to gauge the quality of the vehicles compared to each other. I know they aren't exactly the same, but they're close enough that we'll be able to see who is a better manufacturer. Do you guys think the age of the plant will make a difference in how well they are assembled or are they close enough that it will come down to the employees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I often wonder at times if the whole CUV is a sham and a way to make money for Manufactures...they can charge more for them then they can a wagon. Ding Ding Ding! :yup: It's a reincarnation of the SUV craze from the mid 1990s, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Ding Ding Ding! :yup: It's a reincarnation of the SUV craze from the mid 1990s, sadly. I don't think it ever went away. Look people will buy what they want, it's their borrowed money. I doubt dealers will tell you to buy what you need vice want. As well, car's go through fashion trends just like anything else. Common-sense or logic is not going to take that away because we have our emotional/passions as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I often wonder at times if the whole CUV is a sham and a way to make money for Manufactures...they can charge more for them then they can a wagon. I wouldn't be surprised. That been said, it's the next big thing that this industry does like every other industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapBoyPCS Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) During a reheasal for Ford press release for NAIAS, one Ford employee asked whether all of the Focus variant will be manufactured in US. Allen said "yes except the focus wagon". So, the focus wagons that will be sold in States will be made in Europe. I guess labor cost in Spain is cheaper than that in States. The question and answer are probably being misinterpreted. The question could have been interpreted as whether *all* variants (sedans, wagons, and hatches) will be manufactured in the US. If that's the case, then the reply is correct because currently only the sedan and hatch are being made in the US. I don't think the 'yes except the focus wagon' remark was implying the wagon will only come from Spain. The new plant, however, is flexible, no? So, I doubt Ford will waste money in importing a vehicle from Spain. Rather, I'm sure their update to MAP will mean a wagon can easily be brought online without much impact to the general manufacturing process. Edited January 19, 2011 by GapBoyPCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The question and answer are probably being misinterpreted. The question could have been interpreted as whether *all* variants (sedans, wagons, and hatches) will be manufactured in the US. If that's the case, then the reply is correct because currently only the sedan and hatch are being made in the US. I don't think the 'yes except the focus wagon' remark was implying the wagon will only come from Spain. The new plant, however, is flexible, no? So, I doubt Ford will waste money in importing a vehicle from Spain. Rather, I'm sure their update to MAP will mean a wagon can easily be brought online without much impact to the general manufacturing process. Yes but the plant probably does not have the capacity to build a wagon. They are already slated for the 4 door hatch, sedan, C-max, Hybird and plug-ins. Does anyone recall what the total output of MAP is yearly? They currently have 2 shift but wil have 3 soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Ding Ding Ding! :yup: It's a reincarnation of the SUV craze from the mid 1990s, sadly. I don't really find anything "sad" about it. Why do people buy them? They are comfortable. They are certainly no less efficient than fullsize sedans/wagons that are the only cars that offer the same space and comfort either. Plus, in my opinion, most of them look a heck of a lot better than any station wagon on the market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I wouldn't be surprised. That been said, it's the next big thing that this industry does like every other industry. Like the horrible CUV Sedans we are seeing pop up? Who the hell idea was that? Thankfully Ford hasn't gone down that road...yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't really find anything "sad" about it. Why do people buy them? They are comfortable. They are certainly no less efficient than fullsize sedans/wagons that are the only cars that offer the same space and comfort either. Plus, in my opinion, most of them look a heck of a lot better than any station wagon on the market. In the October 2000 issue (SUV or wagon: which is best for you?), Consumer Reports compared the original Ford Focus wagon to three "crossover" vehicles (Chrysler PT Cruiser, Subaru Forester, and Honda CR-V) and one traditional SUV (Nissan Xterra). The Focus won this comparison test handily - it bested all the other contenders in comfort, handling, fuel economy, and value; only the Xterra offered greater cargo capacity. CR's summation: "The Ford Focus wagon is the most logical choice here." Styling is a subjective attribute, but the clean, well proportioned exterior of the 2000 Focus wagon is to me more pleasant to look at than any of the CUV/SUV products in that particular comparison test. I'm sure the new Mk3 Focus Wagon will continue this tradition, and once again am grateful that Ford decided to resurrect it in the U.S. market. :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) In the October 2000 issue (SUV or wagon: which is best for you?), Consumer Reports compared the original Ford Focus wagon to three "crossover" vehicles (Chrysler PT Cruiser, Subaru Forester, and Honda CR-V) and one traditional SUV (Nissan Xterra). The Focus won this comparison test handily - it bested all the other contenders in comfort, handling, fuel economy, and value; only the Xterra offered greater cargo capacity. CR's summation: "The Ford Focus wagon is the most logical choice here." Styling is a subjective attribute, but the clean, well proportioned exterior of the 2000 Focus wagon is to me more pleasant to look at than any of the CUV/SUV products in that particular comparison test. I'm sure the new Mk3 Focus Wagon will continue this tradition, and once again am grateful that Ford decided to resurrect it in the U.S. market. :happy feet: Ah, good CR. I'll keep my Edge over any Focus wagon, thanks. And yeah, I know looks are subjective, but wow, I thought the 2000 Focus wagon was ugly as hell. Oh yeah, and what isn't subjective about comfort? Edited January 19, 2011 by NickF1011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) Gas prices can go as high as they want, SUV/CUV buyers like me will never see a Focus wagon as an alternative. During the last major price surge in gas, people in big SUVs jumped to smaller SUVs...and I would do the same. Infact, that is why I have been waiting for Lincoln to come out with a small SUV. Infact, if it got really bad, I would rather move back to a midsize sedan like the Fusion, afterall the main reason I buy a SUV is for ride height and comfort (I'm 6' 3")and once you move back to a wagon, basically I have the same drawbacks of a car but a compromised design and image (IMO). And since I don't need a 2nd row seat most of the time, If I had to go to a Focus, it would certainly be the hatchback which is attractive and has spacious cargo room. So in the end, I have a hard time seeing the benefits of a wagon unless you can't afford the gas and need to haul bulky cargo while carrying your children in the backseat at the same time, seems a narrow set of circumstances...but then again I'm just not a wagon customer and I think it's important to keep that in mind when attempting to appeal to SUV/CUV buyers. Edited January 19, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) The question and answer are probably being misinterpreted. The question could have been interpreted as whether *all* variants (sedans, wagons, and hatches) will be manufactured in the US. If that's the case, then the reply is correct because currently only the sedan and hatch are being made in the US. I don't think the 'yes except the focus wagon' remark was implying the wagon will only come from Spain. The new plant, however, is flexible, no? So, I doubt Ford will waste money in importing a vehicle from Spain. Rather, I'm sure their update to MAP will mean a wagon can easily be brought online without much impact to the general manufacturing process. The problem is Ford already announced they will build in NA, Focus hatch, C-MAX PHEV/HEV, Grand C-MAX, and Escape(Kuga), 4 vehicles for this segment of market. Care to rate/estimate how many each will sell annually? And, if Ford were to build the wagon here, too, where it will be in terms of sales? Plus, if Ford were to bring another C car to here, which one's more logical, the regular C-MAX that shares body panels with hybrids/PHEVs, or the wagon that needs new stamping parts/interior panels? Edited January 19, 2011 by 03 LS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Plus, if Ford were to bring another C car to here, which one's more logical, the regular C-MAX that shares body panels with hybrids/PHEVs, or the wagon that needs new stamping parts/interior panels? From a macro perspective, I wonder if Ford's strategy is to offer the market virtually everything it has on the C platform - all in the pursuit of the best possible MPG ratings for its fleet to offset the sales of lower mpg models.While there is obviously a cost to offer the various models, the cost is mitigated in the sense that the cost of designing the models is already sunk, and thus the investment is only for the 'hardware'. Edited January 21, 2011 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Check out this C-Max review: http://sniffpetrol.com/2011/01/14/flexible-as-a-blob-of-new-blu-tack/ "The Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCi Zetec is a bitch. And I spanked it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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