Ford wants Mustang in Sprint Cup for '13

[blksn8k2]

My link

[Pioneer]

The Mustang in Sprint Cup?

 

Bullsnot. There are no production cars in NASCAR. They are generic cookie cutter models with unique stickers. The whole series should be sued for fraud.

[blksn8k2]

The Mustang in Sprint Cup?

 

Bullsnot. There are no production cars in NASCAR. They are generic cookie cutter models with unique stickers. The whole series should be sued for fraud.

 

I take it you didn't even read the article? That was kind of Ford's point... :shades:

[Pioneer]

I take it you didn't even read the article? That was kind of Ford's point... :shades:

 

I didn't see that insinuation anywhere in the article. I however found this quote very amusing.

 

''We are driving to make sure that the car we race is more consistent and more in context with the cars we sell,'' Allison said. ''They have to look like the cars we sell.''

 

Like I said, it's pure fraud. None of the vehicles on the track look like anything available for sale in any dealership. Not to mention the engine and exhaust from the 1970's that isn't even street legal.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Pioneer

[TomServo92]

''We are driving to make sure that the car we race is more consistent and more in context with the cars we sell,'' Allison said. ''They have to look like the cars stickers we sell.''

 

That's more truthful IMO.

[wildosvt]

I didn't see that insinuation anywhere in the article. I however found this quote very amusing.

 

 

 

Like I said, it's pure fraud. None of the vehicles on the track look like anything available for sale in any dealership. Not to mention the engine and exhaust from the 1970's that isn't even street legal.

 

 

FAUXCAR.

[BlackHorse]

NASCAR is such a joke. So they're finally switching to fuel injection next year? Congratulatins NASCAR, you're only 28 years behind. WTCC is a far better racing series but then people watch WTCC to actually see a race while the truth about NASCAR that everybody knows but nobody admits is that people watch it for the big wrecks. I mean lets be honest, there's nothing exciting about three hours of left turns on a big oval track. But again, that was done so that fans could see the whole of the track and not miss any of the big wrecks when they happen. WTCC, Grand Am, and WRC are all far more interesting racing series than NASJOKE. Personally I'm a rally car fan but unfortunately most Americans are clueless about it.

 

You show me a NASCAR that can do this and I'll watch NASCAR.

 

[AGR]

Good for Ford and NASCAR. I may actually start watching again on a regular basis. Indycars and F1 are my favorite forms of racing(sad that FoMoCo is no longer in either), but from the local tracks with stocks and sprints, to the big time oval and road racing it's all good. I don't get all the negativity...

[Edstock]

I don't get all the negativity...

It's really quite simple: NASCAR is supposed to be about "stock" cars. They haven't done this since the late70's-early 80's.

 

They mandate an iron-block iron cylinder head pushrod engine, not used in any road car.

 

 

They mandate the use of a carburetor, when the world has gone to fuel injection.

 

Front wheel drive alloy V-6 cars become RWD iron V-8's with decals for headlights.

 

So the cars have become rolling jokes, and an insult to the history of NASCAR.

 

Meanwhile, in Europe, German Super Touring uses production-derived vehicles as does Australian stock car racing. Real doors. Real headlights.

 

So, the Germans and the Australians can run successful stock car series, but NASCAR, who invented the stock car, can't?

Edited February 12, 2011 by Edstock

[AGR]

I will grant you the lack of tech in the engine department...I don't like that, either. But as for the bodies, there's a good reason that they don't use stock bodies: safety. Unlike the other series you cited, NASCAR run on ovals. The cars need to withstand higher forces of impact, even with the SAFER barrier. Those other series run road courses that generally have runoff areas, gravel traps, and tire barriers. A regular stock body will suffice for them.

If NASCAR uses the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger(WGAF what Toy uses...), the race car and road car configurations would be the same. Make them stock appearing with modern tech engines, that would be fine. If Peter DeLorenzo is correct, that's what we're likely to get.

[robertlane]

I used to be a big NASCAR fan up until 1993. I can care less what happens to that series today though. Ford has the right idea: Let's race what we sell!

[BlackHorse]

I will grant you the lack of tech in the engine department...I don't like that, either. But as for the bodies, there's a good reason that they don't use stock bodies: safety. Unlike the other series you cited, NASCAR run on ovals. The cars need to withstand higher forces of impact, even with the SAFER barrier. Those other series run road courses that generally have runoff areas, gravel traps, and tire barriers. A regular stock body will suffice for them.

If NASCAR uses the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger(WGAF what Toy uses...), the race car and road car configurations would be the same. Make them stock appearing with modern tech engines, that would be fine. If Peter DeLorenzo is correct, that's what we're likely to get.

 

Two things.

 

1. Clearly you must never have seen some of the horrendous accidents in rally racing and those cars are based on stock cars just like the WTCC cars that Edstock is talking about. I've seen rally racing accidents that make the slip and slide into the wall NASCAR stuff look like a silly joke by comparison. Those guys survive with the safety improvements made to a "stock" car. So it's not safety.

 

2. Big oval tracks are all about keeping the whole race right in front of the spectators in the stands where they can see all the wrecks.

 

Edstock is right, NASCAR has gone completely away from what it was supposed to be and that is why people have stopped watching. The European WTCC is much more NASCAR than NASCAR is.

Edited February 12, 2011 by BlackHorse

[Edstock]

But as for the bodies, there's a good reason that they don't use stock bodies: safety. Unlike the other series you cited, NASCAR run on ovals. The cars need to withstand higher forces of impact, even with the SAFER barrier. Those other series run road courses that generally have runoff areas, gravel traps, and tire barriers. A regular stock body will suffice for them.

No. Review the history of how NASCAR sleds came to be what they are.

 

One of the biggest problems with NASCAR is that they have dropped the cars to the point that they "scrape" the ground, creating suction down-force. This makes wind disturbance dangerous for following cars.

 

IMHO, NASCAR needs to go back to the relatively "stock" ride heights that they ran in the 1960's. Maybe even go back to treaded tires.

 

By doing this, you get a more "stock" looking race car, you get rid of a lot of aerodynamic downforce problems.

 

Compare:

 

Edited February 12, 2011 by Edstock

[BlackHorse]

A current WTCC series Chevrolet Cruze just for comparison.

 

 

 

It actually makes a really nice racing car. I'd love to see the new Focus hatch out there racing against it.

[Edstock]

A current WTCC series Chevrolet Cruze just for comparison.

 

 

 

It actually makes a really nice racing car. I'd love to see the new Focus hatch out there racing against it.

Yes please! :happy feet:

[Moosetang]

A current WTCC series Chevrolet Cruze just for comparison.

 

 

 

It actually makes a really nice racing car. I'd love to see the new Focus hatch out there racing against it.

Patience.

[blksn8k2]

I'm not going to try and defend NASCAR because I also believe that the series has strayed too far from its roots and why it became so popular in the first place. With the current rules that mandate generic bodies and drivetrains there really isn't much of a reason for anyone to have any brand loyalty. The problem for Ford and all the other manufacturers is that NASCAR is still the most popular form of racing in this country and they feel they need to have a presence. There was even less brand identity in open wheel racing and that is one of the reasons why Ford left those series. There is still a significant fan base that attends short track races at local dirt and paved oval tracks all over rural America. Like it or not, oval track racing is uniquely American. I think Ford is taking a step in the right direction by wanting to have a "performance" car body like the Mustang in NASCAR. I don't think too many people are going to go out and buy a Fusion, Camry or Impala just because they run those bodies in NASCAR. But it might help sell a few Mustangs. Ford is just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

 

I personally prefer Australian V8 Supercars and the Grand AM Continental Tire Challenge Series precisely because I am brand loyal and Ford has a strong presence in those series that more closely reflect today's performance cars.

[blksn8k2]

I don't expect anyone here to be watching the Bud Shootout this evening but there is a major change in restrictor plate racing taking place right now. NASCAR has done everything in their power to reduce the speeds on the super speedways (Daytona and Talladega) since 1988 but tonight they are hooking up in two car drafts and so far they have run laps at over 206 mph. Say what you want but that is impressive for restricted V-8s with not much over 400 hp. To those who say there is no technology in NASCAR keep in mind that these are pushrod engines that turn well over 9000 rpms and last for 500 miles.

Edited February 13, 2011 by blksn8k2

[akirby]

1. Clearly you must never have seen some of the horrendous accidents in rally racing and those cars are based on stock cars just like the WTCC cars that Edstock is talking about. I've seen rally racing accidents that make the slip and slide into the wall NASCAR stuff look like a silly joke by comparison. Those guys survive with the safety improvements made to a "stock" car. So it's not safety.

 

Show me a driver hitting a concrete wall head on at 200 mph in WTCC.and surviving.

 

Or go ask Adam Petty's family how safe it is.

 

There is a huge difference between 200 mph oval racing with concrete walls and road racing.

[BlackHorse]

Show me a driver hitting a concrete wall head on at 200 mph in WTCC.and surviving.

 

Or go ask Adam Petty's family how safe it is.

 

There is a huge difference between 200 mph oval racing with concrete walls and road racing.

 

Let me see if I have this right. You quoted me talking about rally car crashes and somehow to you that translated into WTCC crashes? You do understand that WTCC and WRC are completely different right?

 

A rally car doing 120 mph in a heavily wooded area where the trees are literally less than a foot off the side of the dirt path they are running down is easily just as dangerous as hitting a wall, Maybe more so. Sorry, the "NASCAR is more dangerous" mentality just doesn't pass muster. I've seen rally cars fall off 100 + foot tall cliffs during a race. Ever see a NASCAR do that?

 

All racing is dangerous, that's just a part of it. But this notion that NASCAR is using the COT because of safety reasons and because it's just so much more dangerous than any other racing is just not accurate.

[akirby]

Let me see if I have this right. You quoted me talking about rally car crashes and somehow to you that translated into WTCC crashes? You do understand that WTCC and WRC are completely different right?

 

A rally car doing 120 mph in a heavily wooded area where the trees are literally less than a foot off the side of the dirt path they are running down is easily just as dangerous as hitting a wall, Maybe more so. Sorry, the "NASCAR is more dangerous" mentality just doesn't pass muster. I've seen rally cars fall off 100 + foot tall cliffs during a race. Ever see a NASCAR do that?

 

All racing is dangerous, that's just a part of it. But this notion that NASCAR is using the COT because of safety reasons and because it's just so much more dangerous than any other racing is just not accurate.

 

You don't really understand the laws of physics, do you?

[PWR Kid]

NASCAR getting fuel injection in 2012

[FPV GTHO]

Meanwhile, in Europe, German Super Touring uses production-derived vehicles as does Australian stock car racing. Real doors. Real headlights.

 

So, the Germans and the Australians can run successful stock car series, but NASCAR, who invented the stock car, can't?

 

Confusion alright, because none of that is true. DTM are GT cars running 4 doors. Theyre infact trying to develop a new rules package in tandem with SuperGT in Japan. Theyre about as stock as NASCAR. V8 Supercars has morphed into its own silhouette series which in one form or another has been running race cars to different body specification to the road car since 2003, and more seriously since 2007.

 

Only the Super2000 formulas seem to be running true stock cars, which are boring to spectate for the average fan in comparison.

[BlackHorse]

You don't really understand the laws of physics, do you?

 

LMAO, spend five minutes on you tube searchnig for rally crash videos and then talk to me about physics. That's the response of someone who knows they've been proven wrong. I've never seen a NASCAR crash in which the driver was in danger of drowning at the end of the crash in his car. That happened in a rally crash.

[Edstock]

Confusion alright, because none of that is true. DTM are GT cars running 4 doors. Theyre infact trying to develop a new rules package in tandem with SuperGT in Japan. Theyre about as stock as NASCAR. V8 Supercars has morphed into its own silhouette series which in one form or another has been running race cars to different body specification to the road car since 2003, and more seriously since 2007.

 

Only the Super2000 formulas seem to be running true stock cars, which are boring to spectate for the average fan in comparison.

I can see that you are right about those series and NASCAR, but, at least V8 Supercars have REAL headlights. Real is good. RWD conversions aren't. I stopped watching, anyway.

 

In a way, the COT is an insult to the ingenuity of the original NASCAR builders. If NASCAR had told the teams to race FWD, what kind of technology they would have come up with to make high power FWD work.