FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Yes, because Porsche's business model is comparable to Lincoln's. :rolleyes: May as well compare Porsche's business model to Frito Lay. Cadillac seems to be following it a bit as its V-Series circle the Nurburing in its latest commercials. Prices of V-Series are up into Boxster/Cayman range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Cadillac seems to be following it a bit as its V-Series circle the Nurburing in its latest commercials. Prices of V-Series are up into Boxster/Cayman range. Who said anything about price? We're talking profit margin. So, what are Lincoln's and Cadillac's profit margins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Someone seems to be forgetting the laws of physics....your front brakes do 80-90% of the total stopping power on a car. All your doing with those shiny yellow calipers on that Porsche is wasting money.... Not on a race track which the Boss Laguna Seca is made for. When you are in 4th gear and approaching 135mph in straight and then need to get down to 40mph in tight curve coming up quickly like in split seconds, you need big racing calipers on all four wheels. The Boss tested had useless back brakes after two laps of heavy braking into curves at Laguna Seca. It was testers only real complaint of the great Boss Mustang. Around town, in normal driving, you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Not on a race track which the Boss Laguna Seca is made for. When you are in 4th gear and approaching 135mph in straight and then need to get down to 40mph in tight curve coming up quickly like in split seconds, you need big racing calipers on all four wheels. The Boss tested had useless back brakes after two laps of heavy braking into curves at Laguna Seca. It was testers only real complaint of the great Boss Mustang. Around town, in normal driving, you are correct. Again. Compare development budgets. Ford didn't want the Boss Mustang to cost $100,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 The Boss tested had useless back brakes after two laps of heavy braking into curves at Laguna Seca. So where did you find this out at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Again. Compare development budgets. Ford didn't want the Boss Mustang to cost $100,000. Porsche has a ceramic braking option that runs about $7,000 extra. Ford could have offered an option like that for those who want to track their Boss Laguna Seca's. Btw, that is how Porsche gets 16% profit margin...by offering very expensive options. Now maybe the 750 Laguna Seca's Ford makes will end up sitting in heated garages and hardly ever driven...I don't know. That would be sad IMO because with proper rear brakes this vehicle would tear up tracks around country. I know I have had nothing but trouble with my rear drum brakes on my Taurus as I have to set the parking brake everytime I drive it to keep the rear brakes freed up so that they don't rust up and freeze causing excessive front brake wear. Ford likes to play that game of cost cutting with rear brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Porsche has a ceramic braking option that runs about $7,000 extra. Ford could have offered an option like that for those who want to track their Boss Laguna Seca's. Btw, that is how Porsche gets 16% profit margin...by offering very expensive options. And that's why Porsche and Ford cannot be compared. Porsche can get away with $7000 options. Ford cannot. Not even on Boss Mustangs. For those needing improved brake performance, Ford works very closely with several aftermarket companies and there are a multitude of options out there already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Porsche has a ceramic braking option that runs about $7,000 extra. Ford could have offered an option like that for those who want to track their Boss Laguna Seca's. If folks want super-duper better than stock brakes on their BOSS, they are going to go aftermarket instead of spending $7k more for a factory option. You aren't going to have a high-enough take rate on a brake option that adds 17% to the cost of the vehicle to make it feasible to develop, build, and test...on a Ford. Ford buyers typically don't have bottomless pockets like many Porsche buyers. Remind me again why we are comparing Ford to Porsche?? EDIT: Nick beat me to it by a minute... I know I have had nothing but trouble with my rear drum brakes on my Taurus as I have to set the parking brake everytime I drive it to keep the rear brakes freed up so that they don't rust up and freeze causing excessive front brake wear. Ford likes to play that game of cost cutting with rear brakes. Maybe if you didn't set the parking brake when you are driving, you wouldn't be so hard on brakes? Edited May 5, 2011 by fordmantpw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 And that's why Porsche and Ford cannot be compared. Porsche can get away with $7000 options. Ford cannot. Not even on Boss Mustangs. For those needing improved brake performance, Ford works very closely with several aftermarket companies and there are a multitude of options out there already. Porshce "stock" brakes are better than Mustang's with expensive Brembo brake package that unfortunately only puts them on front wheels and sticks with very pedestrian disc brakes on rear. Again, Ford could have offered factory brembo package on rear also as another option to check off when buying, Btw, I set my parking brake on my Boxster everytime I park it also to keep the rear discs freed up even though they are exact same calipers as front. Braking is outstanding also. It really isn't a "sin" to criticize Ford when they deserve it. I criticize Porsche all the time also when they deserve it. And they do have their problems big time. When you truly care about a company doing well, you use a critical eye. If I didn't care, I wouldn't even bother commenting. The new Mustang Laguna Seca is a truly outstanding performance vehicle, and another factory brake option taking care of rear brakes would have been nice. On race track, you need responsive, robust motor, great handling with high lateral g-forces, and great, fade resistant brakes. Ford got within 80% of criteria and then stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If folks want super-duper better than stock brakes on their BOSS, they are going to go aftermarket instead of spending $7k more for a factory option. You aren't going to have a high-enough take rate on a brake option that adds 17% to the cost of the vehicle to make it feasible to develop, build, and test...on a Ford. Ford buyers typically don't have bottomless pockets like many Porsche buyers. Remind me again why we are comparing Ford to Porsche?? EDIT: Nick beat me to it by a minute... Maybe if you didn't set the parking brake when you are driving, you wouldn't be so hard on brakes? First off, I'm comparing a $60,000 Boss Laguna Seca racing vehicle to a $60,000 Boxster S and the Boxster has much better brakes all around, not just on front wheels. Price points are equal, but brakes aren't. Second, after winning a spec race with Taurus, I like to do donuts before I travel around track with winner's flag :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 First off, I'm comparing a $60,000 Boss Laguna Seca racing vehicle to a $60,000 Boxster S and the Boxster has much better brakes all around, not just on front wheels. Price points are equal, but brakes aren't. Second, after winning a spec race with Taurus, I like to do donuts before I travel around track with winner's flag :happy feet: Comparing a Porsche to a Mustang in ANY regard is flatly ludicrous. I suppose it makes sense in Metro Detroit though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Comparing a Porsche to a Mustang in ANY regard is flatly ludicrous. I suppose it makes sense in Metro Detroit though... Hey, you have to admit that the Boxster looks like a Mustang in some small ways like functioning vents in front of rear wheels and horsey emblem on front hood, and on steering wheel. And the Flat 6 sounds almost as good as a throaty small block V8. Now if my Boxster was only as fast or as robust as a Mustang 5.0 in a straight line and maintenance was as cheap as a Mustang or my Taurus. I used to own a Mustang V8 like you, and maintenance on my Boxster is absolutely frightening in comparison. Labor rates at Porsche dealer are $140/hour and parts prices are out of this world. Thank god for Pelican parts and indie shops. Oh, and Porsche brakes need to have their brake fluid flushed and bled every two years. Blame RJ for this....he took a 6 week dormant thread and started this up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Oh, and Porsche brakes need to have their brake fluid flushed and bled every two years. And you think the Mustang needs a brake package like Porsche? Seriously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Now if my Boxster was only as fast or as robust as a Mustang 5.0 in a straight line and maintenance was as cheap as a Mustang How dare Porsche release a $60,000 car that doesn't have enough power then, right? There are limits with what you can do with a vehicle and stick to a particular price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 OMG, Ford Buyer shut your word hole. Holy heck, you are such an endless windbag. "I" "me" "my Porsche" "I" "me" "me" "I" "Porsche" "me" "me" "me" Get it through your thick skull. WE DON'T CARE. --- And if Porsche were so smart, why the heck did they try to buy Volkswagen? Huh? Answer me that. No, better yet, don't. In the interests of my sanity, further comment from you in this thread is forbidden. Why don't you go yap on Porsche forums about how much more trunk space you've got in your Taurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Nice looking vehicle. :reading: Btw, Porsche has 16% profit margin on every vehicle it sells. Maybe Lincoln needs to read its business model. Way to not answer the question. No wonder every time I see you posting I always think or reply "Do you post for the sake of posting and pot-stirring, FordBuyer?" Because you don't ever add anything to the conversation. No one has ever denied that Lincoln needs to improve. Many have concurred that a different naming scheme would be preferred. But you continue to trot out the well-worn, nearly always inaccurate blather that doesn't move the conversation forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 How dare Porsche release a $60,000 car that doesn't have enough power then, right? Remember, its a chick car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Porsche has 16% profit margin on every vehicle Pretty sure Lincoln's margins are somewhere in that neighborhood. Ford's NA profit margin, stem to stern, was about 9% after taxes. I'd guess Lincoln was in the 12-13% range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Check out those big ol' Porsche yellow calipers on all four wheels as Ford gives customer of latest Boss Mustang big Brembos on front and tiny stock calipers on rear that wont' stand up more than one lap of Laguna Seca. Says who? Are you drinking Porsche Cool-Aid? Other than the Motor Trend problem when they had brake failure, I can't find anything or anyone complaining about the Boss 302 brakes. Please enlighten us! As for the Boxster, if you can't see an engine, how can it be a sports car! LOL http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/car/2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-laguna-seca The car’s neck-wrenching 1.02g on the skidpad and 74.0-mph romp through the slalom make the Boss 302 the best-handling production Mustang ever, but the most impressive thing about it was its durability—it lapped Laguna Seca for two straight days needing only a few fuel stops and tire changes. Most other production cars wouldn’t have lasted five laps. The production run of the Boss 302 was short, lasting only a couple of years, but after winning the 1970 Trans-Am championship, it became a national icon. Now 42 years later, the folks at Ford have decided to resurrect the nameplate, creating the most agile Mustang ever, one that can go head to head with the best sports cars in the world, and that includes the likes of the BMW M3 and Porsche 911. So the LS Boss was lapping the track for TWO DAYS.........makes you comment sounds like some Boxster boys are a little upset! As usual a low level Porsche is over loaded with overpriced options it doesn't need, but the rear brake calipers are pretty tho! Edited May 6, 2011 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) BTW Why is this in a MKT discussion? http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q1/2012_ford_mustang_boss_302_-road_test At the front, four-pot Brembos clamp 14-inch vented rotors. The pads are near-race-spec compounds, although they don’t squeal, and the brake lines have been hardened to prevent expansion. On the road, pedal feel proved sublime—fairly hard but bang-on linear—and it was a cinch to modulate braking right on the threshold of the ABS. Fade? None that we encountered either during testing or during nine-tenths lapping around Laguna Seca. No complaints from C&D either........ http://www.theblogismine.com/2011/03/09/2012-ford-mustang-boss-302-laguna-seca-video/ Since we are racing via computer, here are some times: GT500 1:44.32 M3 1:42.96 Audi A8 1:40.75 BOSS 302 1:40.21 Boxster 1:49.007.............not even in the same league! FAIL! Edited May 6, 2011 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think the MKT needs a tweak or two or twenty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think the MKT needs a tweak or two or twenty Not to be hating on your work, but if anything your making it worse.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 There was a review where they were testing it at Laguna Seca and they complained about brake fade.. Can't remember which review it was though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) Not to be hating on your work, but if anything your making it worse.... LOL" it's so ugly,,,,,,," I was trying to make it less feminine, by butching it up a little. It looked like a fat old lady. Everyone hates on it, Now here's an idea for a design competition! Edited May 6, 2011 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 There was a review where they were testing it at Laguna Seca and they complained about brake fade.. Can't remember which review it was though. OK, here's one from Automobile Magazine: I've read all the major reviews and whoever complained about brake fade was either a minor review or didn't complain much. The Boss' ride over broken pavement is impressive, and the Mustang's long wheelbase helps eliminate any of the choppiness you'd expect from a firm ride. The upgraded, 14-inch front brakes (taken from the Shelby GT500) were easily overheated at Laguna Seca (a track notorious for killing brakes), but will likely survive less abusive tracks and aggressive back-roads blasts. http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1102_2012_ford_mustang_boss_302/engine_handling.html I'd like to see who reviewed the BOSS first........and last. I assume Ford replaced the brake pads and rotors at some point for safety, but there was the failure at MT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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