atvman Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Don't get too worked up, there's still a week left for GM to throw a couple thousand more dollars on the hoods of all their cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 ".... incentives, such as rebates, to artificially inflate sales at the expense of profits and brand image." GM can rebate itself back into bankruptcy. GM's loyal buyers need rebates for down payments saved, but then resale is bad. So, they will need rebates again to cover upside-down loans down the road, a vicious cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Don't get too worked up, there's still a week left for GM to throw a couple thousand more dollars on the hoods of all their cars. Yea... I can see the flood gates more GM rebates being opened soon :titanic: Another point to consider too... Ford has lots of new volume products coming out (or just came out): Focus, Explorer, F-150 with new engines, and Edge. GM has only 1 volume product launch this year: Chevy Cruze. Everything else GM has new or refreshed are niche vehicles (Volt, Sonic, Spark, Verano, Regal, Camaro convertible)... and fleet only rental car special (Captiva). It's an interesting point of comparison for sure... Ford's aging products are going from strength to strength (outgoing Focus, Escape, Fusion), setting sales records with high retail demand; while GM seems to be again stuck trying to figure out how to sell older cars without resorting to huge rebates. The contrast between outgoing Focus and Chevy Cobalt could not be more different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 And so it begins............ Bet GM pours on the incentives in April, in order to make up for the sales targets they missed in March. Richard- And do you think it's likely they'll reduce the incentives on the targets+ they hit, e.g., the MKZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Same thing... ROFL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I really don't get the title of this thread.....for past couple months GM has increased incentives much more than competition and has realized market share gains. Now this month they scaled them back and took a market share hit. So GM's market share probably fell 1% down to maybe 18.5% or so. Ford's market share fell about 1% over the last couple months down to 15.5% and should be back up to 16.5% for March. So GM will still have about 2% more market share for March than Ford and probably still sell 20,000-30,000 more vehicles than Ford. And for last year, Ford had profits of $6.6 billion compared to GM's $6.2 billon. Yes, Ford is more profitable, but marginally so. Some of you guys talk like Ford is significantly more profitable than GM and that's not the case. $400 million is a lot of money, but percentage wise compared to almost $7 billion not as much. About 6% or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Yea... I can see the flood gates more GM rebates being opened soon :titanic: Another point to consider too... Ford has lots of new volume products coming out (or just came out): Focus, Explorer, F-150 with new engines, and Edge. GM has only 1 volume product launch this year: Chevy Cruze. Everything else GM has new or refreshed are niche vehicles (Volt, Sonic, Spark, Verano, Regal, Camaro convertible)... and fleet only rental car special (Captiva). It's an interesting point of comparison for sure... Ford's aging products are going from strength to strength (outgoing Focus, Escape, Fusion), setting sales records with high retail demand; while GM seems to be again stuck trying to figure out how to sell older cars without resorting to huge rebates. The contrast between outgoing Focus and Chevy Cobalt could not be more different. The strength of GM seems to be Buick and Cadillac with big percentage gains consistently every month while GM has to pile on incentives to sell aging Silverado, Impala, Malibu to a lesser extent, and some other models like Buick Lucerne and some aging Cadillacs. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I really don't get the title of this thread.....for past couple months GM has increased incentives much more than competition and has realized market share gains. Now this month they scaled them back and took a market share hit. So GM's market share probably fell 1% down to maybe 18.5% or so. Ford's market share fell about 1% over the last couple months down to 15.5% and should be back up to 16.5% for March. So GM will still have about 2% more market share for March than Ford and probably still sell 20,000-30,000 more vehicles than Ford. And for last year, Ford had profits of $6.6 billion compared to GM's $6.2 billon. Yes, Ford is more profitable, but marginally so. Some of you guys talk like Ford is significantly more profitable than GM and that's not the case. $400 million is a lot of money, but percentage wise compared to almost $7 billion not as much. About 6% or so. Hey genius - how much profit would Ford have made last year if they didn't pay off $14B in debt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I really don't get the title of this thread.....for past couple months GM has increased incentives much more than competition and has realized market share gains. Now this month they scaled them back and took a market share hit. So GM's market share probably fell 1% down to maybe 18.5% or so. Ford's market share fell about 1% over the last couple months down to 15.5% and should be back up to 16.5% for March. So GM will still have about 2% more market share for March than Ford and probably still sell 20,000-30,000 more vehicles than Ford. And for last year, Ford had profits of $6.6 billion compared to GM's $6.2 billon. Yes, Ford is more profitable, but marginally so. Some of you guys talk like Ford is significantly more profitable than GM and that's not the case. $400 million is a lot of money, but percentage wise compared to almost $7 billion not as much. About 6% or so. I have a tough time aknowledging a GM profit after their illegal Obama sponsored bankruptcy, but lets say they did make $6.2B, look how many more units they had to move to accomplish that. That's the point. And what's not to understand about the title, Edmunds predicted ford to sell more than GM. I personally dont think they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Hey genius - how much profit would Ford have made last year if they didn't pay off $14B in debt? Hey genius- Ford had a HUGE debt problem and crappy credit rating and NEEDED to pay off debt. I had my Ford note called in by Ford last year that was paying me 9% return. That's how bad their credit rating was. They had no choice. And Ford is still not AAA rated and stil has more debt than GM. Yeah before you start squacking, I know Ford didn't take a bailout and hopefully that will not be forgotten. And Lincoln still sucks big time and is about to be a money pit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) I really don't get the title of this thread..... Let me break it down for you: Ford - n. An automobile manufacturer based in Dearborn, Michigan. may - v. Auxiliary verb indicating that the action expressed is possible, not certain. top - v.t. to exceed GM - n. An automobile manufacturer based in Detroit, Michigan. in - prep. confines the actors and action of a clause to the temporal, conceptual, or spatial limits of the prepositional object March - n. English name for the 3rd month of the Gregorian and Julian calendars, used as an adjective in this instance. sales - n. non-count noun referring, in aggregate, to individual revenue producing transactions between a business or individual and his/her/their customers. This noun may refer to the number of transactions, or the net amount of revenue generated by these transactions. ------- The title of the thread implies that there is a possibility that Ford will sell more vehicles than GM in March. Edited March 26, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Hey genius- Could GM have paid off $14B in debt last year with positive cash flow? The debt they 'paid off' they paid off with an escrow fund that was filled with money the US Treasury borrowed and then gave to GM. Edited March 26, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I really don't get the title of this thread..... Let me break it down for you: Ford - n. An automobile manufacturer based in Dearborn, Michigan. may - v. Auxiliary verb indicating that the action expressed is possible, not certain. top - v.t. to exceed GM - n. An automobile manufacturer based in Detroit, Michigan. in - prep. confines the actors and action of a clause to the temporal, conceptual, or spatial limits of the prepositional object March - n. English name for the 3rd month of the Gregorian and Julian calendars, used as an adjective in this instance. sales - n. non-count noun referring, in aggregate, to individual revenue producing transactions between a business or individual and his/her/their customers. This noun may refer to the number of transactions, or the net amount of revenue generated by these transactions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I have a tough time aknowledging a GM profit after their illegal Obama sponsored bankruptcy, but lets say they did make $6.2B, look how many more units they had to move to accomplish that. That's the point. And what's not to understand about the title, Edmunds predicted ford to sell more than GM. I personally dont think they will. Agreed. It was blatant disregard of U.S. bankruptcy laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Hey genius- Ford had a HUGE debt problem and crappy credit rating and NEEDED to pay off debt. I had my Ford note called in by Ford last year that was paying me 9% return. That's how bad their credit rating was. They had no choice. And Ford is still not AAA rated and stil has more debt than GM. Yeah before you start squacking, I know Ford didn't take a bailout and hopefully that will not be forgotten. And Lincoln still sucks big time and is about to be a money pit. Ford made $20B profit before they paid off $14B debt. GM still only made $6B because they didn't use any profits for debt paydown. If they do the same thing this year they'll be virtually debt free. And from that point on they will be making WAY more profit than GM - with more sales and half the employees. What part of that do you not understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 What part of that do you not understand? Anything involving facts or reality.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Ford made $20B profit before they paid off $14B debt. GM still only made $6B because they didn't use any profits for debt paydown. If they do the same thing this year they'll be virtually debt free. And from that point on they will be making WAY more profit than GM - with more sales and half the employees. What part of that do you not understand? Poor old Fordbuyer must work for GM, more sales must equal more profit...:shades: Meanwhile GM is still wondering how the F*** they got in trouble when they lead sales... GM haven't fixed Chevrolet, are relying heavily on Buick and only have two strong Cadillacs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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