mettech Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 "...The 2012 Kia Rio, a completely new vehicle unveiled last week at the 2011 New York Auto Show, has more to boast about than its sculpted tiger grill: the appearance of its ISG (idle-stop-go) technology as the latest mechanism to save gas. The system, which shuts down the engine at stop-lights and when a car is idling, is already popular in Europe and is taking hold in the U.S. In addition to Kia, Ford and General Motors have announced they will be offering stop-start technology on vehicles starting in 2012. On the luxury side, BMW and Jaguar are joining Porsche...." .What car from Ford will get this first? Will the 2012 Fiesta get it? Start-Stop Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Will the 2012 Fiesta get it? Highly unlikely that any US Ford will get stop-start for 2012MY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Highly unlikely that any US Ford will get stop-start for 2012MY. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 Why? Because it's not ready yet. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 My guess is (start/stop tech) will debut in the North America C-Max in combo with the 1.6L EcoBoost, which is supposed to launch 4th quarter this year. Most likely will be offered on the EcoBoost equipped vehicles in the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 VW have been using it since the 1980's in Europe, MMMmmm fuel prices must be starting to bite a bit Stateside, your be driving diesel cars next & save another 30%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted May 20, 2011 Author Share Posted May 20, 2011 Because it's not ready yet. Duh. :reading: Why is Ford behind the times? Other car makers have it now?:shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 :reading: Why is Ford behind the times? Other car makers have it now?:shades: Ford has ecoboost engines. Why don't the other car makers have it now? Ford has Sync and My Ford Touch. Why don't the other car makers have it now? Ford will have 3 parallel hybrids, 1 plug-in-hybrid and 2 electric vehicles. Why don't the other car makers have that many? Priorities, plus they're adding it as part of the normal development cycle. Other things are more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 (edited) Well technically the fusion and escape already have it.... in the hybrid versions :shades: Edited May 21, 2011 by probowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Why is Ford behind the times? Other car makers have it now?:shades: I know they have been playing with it for a long time (they had a V8 Lincoln about 10 years ago that was started by a compressed rubber block). I do know there are about 30-40% less engineers working on more powertrain controls applications worldwide then there were about 5-6 years ago and they are working on more applications (in sourcing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Reynolds Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Not really a fan of Start/Stop here. Too many parameters have to be met in order for it to function consistently..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Not really a fan of Start/Stop here. Too many parameters have to be met in order for it to function consistently..... what parameters? How do these parameter differ from any other parameters used on car today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xargos Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 VW have been using it since the 1980's in Europe, MMMmmm fuel prices must be starting to bite a bit Stateside, your be driving diesel cars next & save another 30%? That's what gets me. It isn't like other companies haven't already been doing this. Toyota is also introducing this type of feature on the 2012 Vitz from what I've read, but it doesn't sound like the stateside 2012 Yaris is going to get it. Perhaps at least some manufacturers don't think Americans want this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 (edited) I'm getting older, and my near-term memory certainly isn't as good as it used to be, but you guys are bordering on pathetic!!!!! Here's an Autoblog article outlining Ford's announcement from December (uhhhh, that was only 6 months ago). Autoblog on Ford Start Stop First application in the U.S. is next year. My assumption is that the first application would be on the 1.6l EB in both the C-Max and Escape, but it's only a guess. Ford will be AHEAD of the pack, not a distant follower as some of you are implying. The only other manufacturers who will have SS on the ground when Ford previews are a handful of luxury applications. Ummm, a simple google search got me to the announcement. Edited June 4, 2011 by Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 I'm getting older, and my near-term memory certainly isn't as good as it used to be, but you guys are bordering on pathetic!!!!! Here's an Autoblog article outlining Ford's announcement from December (uhhhh, that was only 6 months ago). Autoblog on Ford Start Stop First application in the U.S. is next year. My assumption is that the first application would be on the 1.6l EB in both the C-Max and Escape, but it's only a guess. Ford will be AHEAD of the pack, not a distant follower as some of you are implying. The only other manufacturers who will have SS on the ground when Ford previews are a handful of luxury applications. Ummm, a simple google search got me to the announcement. Hyundia/KIA...? 2011 Hyundai i10 Promotes Fuel-Saving Start/Stop System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hyundia/KIA...? 2011 Hyundai i10 Promotes Fuel-Saving Start/Stop System I was speaking about the U.S. This Hyundai is not sold in the U.S. so I stand by my original comments that Ford will be in the league with only a couple of luxury players initially in the U.S. But I would expect other pedestrian brands (particularly Hyundai/Kia and probably GM) to follow rather rapidly. Part of the reason for the slow movement to SS is the complaint by the manufacturers that the present test cycle doesn't give enough of a bump in fuel economy label for SS, so it's not worth it to add the cost if you don't get any advertisable benefit. (Although there are parts of the test cycle when the vehicle is at idle). But of course, depending on an individual's personal situation, there could be a nice increase in fuel economy. Another reason is economies of scale. SS is essentially a "micro hybrid". So you start with electrifying all the accessories (except the alternator -- that would be perpetual motion). Electric water pump, electric steering, electric air compressor. You have to electrify to provide continued vehicle function with the engine off at stop lights. Then add a bigger battery. I'm not sure if Ford's SS system has regen braking. Versus a full hybrid, you're missing a much larger battery and traction motor(s), both of which are expensive, bulky, and heavy. Still, SS would be a step below Honda's Integrated Starter-Generator which they call IMA. Full electrification is just taking off. Electric steering is just now becoming the norm, so those systems are likely starting to come down in cost. Electric compressors are available and used on hybrids; I'm assuming they also will become the norm in the future across the board, but volumes are not so high right now, so the cost probably is quite high versus belt-driven. All of this electrification causes changes to the vehicle's electrical strategy which might (or might not) cause cost or engineering triggers. So SS will phase in, and some of the higher volumes in components from increased volume of hybrids and SS will trickle down to other IC applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 40 MPG Capable 2012 Kia Rio w/ Stop/Start to be Launched in NY I thinkd the Accent is being relased with SS now in the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 SS will produce more wear/replacement for the battery as well. This doesn't factor in often for folks up north, but if you live in Texas and have to replace it every 2.5-3 yrs anyway, adding maintenance cost for battery/starter/alternator etc. items by making them work 3-4 times as many start/stop cycles a year doesn't sound real appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 SS will produce more wear/replacement for the battery as well. This doesn't factor in often for folks up north, but if you live in Texas and have to replace it every 2.5-3 yrs anyway, adding maintenance cost for battery/starter/alternator etc. items by making them work 3-4 times as many start/stop cycles a year doesn't sound real appealing. Because we all know Ford (and other automakers) won't beef up the components to make them withstand the extra use. :rolleyes: Do folks in Texas really replace batteries every 2.5-3 years? My impression was that cold weather was harder on batteries that hot weather. I have NEVER replaced a battery in the summery, but have replaced several in the winter. And all my batteries have lasted 5 years plus. We get our share of heat here in MO, but all my batteries have died in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Because we all know Ford (and other automakers) won't beef up the components to make them withstand the extra use. :rolleyes: Do folks in Texas really replace batteries every 2.5-3 years? My impression was that cold weather was harder on batteries that hot weather. I have NEVER replaced a battery in the summery, but have replaced several in the winter. And all my batteries have lasted 5 years plus. We get our share of heat here in MO, but all my batteries have died in the winter. I live in Atlanta and have never had a battery last more than 3 years. Just had to replace the one on the 2008 Edge a few months ago. It's to the point where I just start replacing them after 3 years now before they actually fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I live in Atlanta and have never had a battery last more than 3 years. Just had to replace the one on the 2008 Edge a few months ago. It's to the point where I just start replacing them after 3 years now before they actually fail. Interestiong...didn't realize that. I just replaced the one in my '05 F150 last winter after 5+ years. The battery in my '99 F150 made it 6 years. Oddly enough, my father's '03 F250 diesel has the original batteries, and he has had it since Dec. '02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 SS will produce more wear/replacement for the battery as well. This doesn't factor in often for folks up north, but if you live in Texas and have to replace it every 2.5-3 yrs anyway, adding maintenance cost for battery/starter/alternator etc. items by making them work 3-4 times as many start/stop cycles a year doesn't sound real appealing. Ford hybrids with stop/start don't have alternators or starters and have proven their reliability in extreme duty (NYC taxi). Once you start electrifying more of a vehicle, maintenance issues tend to decrease. AGM batteries usually last the life of a vehicle, even in hot climates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex220 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 knock on wood, but up "North" in PA, I seem to get 7 or more years out of batteries...including the Mustang that doesn't get run much (and sits for 3-4 months in winter with monthly starts, and my truck has lots of starts with short trips. I always have load test done about annually once it starts to get older, and that has seemed to work well...I"m sure there's better technology out there and they're introducing it as things get tested. We won't recognize cars in a few years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I read the Autoblog article and there's other articles talking about the system. Direct Injection helps with the application of this system so it make sense it will show up in Focus however, the Focus press release doesn't mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I read the Autoblog article and there's other articles talking about the system. Direct Injection helps with the application of this system so it make sense it will show up in Focus however, the Focus press release doesn't mention it. DI can help as I understand it. Mazda has a system that stops the engine in a precise manner that makes charging the cylinder and firing up the engine easier on the starter. The key with stop/start application will be the new CAFE legislation. Manufacturers have been saying that they don't get much of a "kick" from the application of start/stop in both fuel economy label and in CAFE calculations (they are related but not the same). The gov't won't be changing the test cycles in the new legislation, but will evidently be giving manufacturers a fuel economy credit for its application. Depending on the size of the credit, I think you can expect to see much wider application as a key part of the way to meet upcoming stiff regulations. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I think it's a natural fall-out anyway. I can see higher and higher application of electric accessories, including water pump and air conditioning compressors. Once you have all the accessories other than the alternator off the belt, then the move to stop/start isn't so difficult or expensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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