tucker_bmd Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 In print in the September issue page 55 (I checked the online story and they make no mention of it online). http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-cars/first/new-from-ford-for-2012 Ford Focus ST Price Range: est $22000 HP: est 250 Weight: est 2800 lb EPA, city/hwy: est 20/27 mpg 0-60 mph: est 6.0 sec So where do they get these numbers? I was expecting better mpg considering the V6 Mustang makes 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 (edited) In print in the September issue page 55 (I checked the online story and they make no mention of it online). http://www.roadandtr...m-ford-for-2012 Ford Focus ST Price Range: est $22000 HP: est 250 Weight: est 2800 lb EPA, city/hwy: est 20/27 mpg 0-60 mph: est 6.0 sec So where do they get these numbers? I was expecting better mpg considering the V6 Mustang makes 30. I think they pulled the figures out of their ass... EB Edge gets better than that Edited August 4, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I think they pulled the figures out of their ass... EB Edge gets better than that I bet this was written before Ford announced the the EB numbers for the Explorer and Edge. my guess is 26/35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Aside from 0-60, all the numbers look a little bogus to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 The Mazdaspeed3 also gets fairly crappy MPG for a direct-injection turbo 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmalonehunter Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Aside from 0-60, all the numbers look a little bogus to me. Yeah, I highly doubt it will only be $22k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Yeah, I highly doubt it will only be $22k. agreed, im thinking 25k, close to 30 maxxed out ( leather the works )....and mpgs will be 35ish, 27 COMBINED....place your bets, R & T should stop smoking the chronic...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 IIRC, the difference between the 3.5 Taurus and SHO Taurus was only a mpg or two, I would expect something similar for the Focus. The Mazda GTDi's have never gotten very good mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I bet this was written before Ford announced the the EB numbers for the Explorer and Edge. my guess is 26/35. Yes, my guess is that EB will be almost identical to DI 2.0 but give superior performance. My prediction is that Focus ST 2.0 EB will give 270 hp/270 lb ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 The Mazdaspeed3 also gets fairly crappy MPG for a direct-injection turbo 4. That's not Ecoboost, compare CX-7 with 2.3 turbo to Edge Ecoboost and you see the difference right away. The secret is in the software management, it's got 11 different herbs and spices.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 ...My prediction is that Focus ST 2.0 EB will give 270 hp/270 lb ft. I used to think along those lines but 'problem posts' & the 2.3EB and 2.5EB rumors have changed that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 My prediction is that Focus ST 2.0 EB will give 270 hp/270 lb ft. over on some of the Focus boards I visit, A Ford Spokesperson stated only to expect about 250HP in the ST... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Has there been any rumors on if the RS will live on? Will the ST get revo knuckle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Has there been any rumors on if the RS will live on? Will the ST get revo knuckle? IMHO the RS is important for the EU market, where there are hot hatches from Renault, Peugeot/Citroen, Vauxhall/Opel, Honda/Acura, Volvo, Skoda/SEAT/VW plus Audi and BMW plus WRX Subies. I sure hope Ford shows up with something competitive. To be a class leader, it will need around 400 hp, or it will be seen as a day late and a dollar short. Please no hybrid like that ghastly Honda hatch, just a nice simple 3-dr Focus with AWD and 400 hp. It can't be that difficult, can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I don't know, I think if done properly a partial hybrid (don't know if that's the right term for it) could be pretty cool. Electric motors in the rear wheels in addition to the regular drivetrain up front could perform pretty well if done right, I would think. As long as the weight penalty isn't too bad. Even so, some more weight towards the back could help balance the car more towards a 50/50 instead of having all of the weight hanging over the front of the car like most FWD setups are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) IMHO the RS is important for the EU market, where there are hot hatches from Renault, Peugeot/Citroen, Vauxhall/Opel, Honda/Acura, Volvo, Skoda/SEAT/VW plus Audi and BMW plus WRX Subies. I sure hope Ford shows up with something competitive. To be a class leader, it will need around 400 hp, or it will be seen as a day late and a dollar short. Please no hybrid like that ghastly Honda hatch, just a nice simple 3-dr Focus with AWD and 400 hp. It can't be that difficult, can it? For you Ed, sounds like RS will stay FWD, no hybrid electric motors and at least 300 hp, Ford have had Ecoboost 2.0 as high as 380 hp but reliability gets tough after that....I should think so.. New Focus RS hot-hatch is go Jez Spinks August 4, 2011 The current Ford Focus RS More power, still front-wheel drive for next-generation hero Focus, while XR5 Turbo replacement will be rebadged ST for Australia. Ford has confirmed it is developing a new flagship, RS version of its latest-generation Focus small car. The company's global boss for small cars, Gunnar Herrmann, revealed to Drive that the third iteration of the hot-hatch was in the works at this week's local launch of the all-new Focus. The current RS was belatedly imported to Australia last year in limited numbers and a $59,990 price tag. It proved to be an impressive engineering feat by putting 224kW of power through the front wheels only, but Ford says the replacement will have more power and continue to ignore all-wheel drive. Advertisement: Story continues below Ford Focus ST "I think we stay with our two-wheel-drive strategy [for the new RS], which I think was well executed [for the previous version]," says Herrmann, Ford's German vehicle line director for C-segment (small vehicle) platform. "I think [more power for the next RS] is sustainable. With the limited edition RS500 [sold only in the UK] we went up to 350 horsepower [261kW] and some of our development units we have them up to 380hp [283kW]. And we even moved torque [upwards]. "And then you really get into engine durability. But [the car] can handle it." The new RS, expected in late 2013 or 2014, will continue to employ the so-called 'Revoknuckle' suspension that allowed Ford to put 224kW through the front wheels without creating excessive torque steer – the undesirable effect of sometimes violent steering wheel tugs when lots of power is fed through the same wheels trying to direct the car. Herrmann's comments suggest there's no truth to one rumour in the UK that the new RS would become all-wheel-drive by adopting electric motors to power the rear axle. Herrmann says the current RS's Volvo-sourced 2.5-litre five-cylinder turbo was a great engine for tuning to higher power levels, and admits Ford's engineers are still working at extracting more power out of the 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbo that will initially power the ST with 184kW. The ST, which for cost reasons won't feature the RS's clever front suspension when it goes on sale in 2012, will also retain its European badge for Australia, Ford has confirmed. Ford rebadged the existing Focus ST as XR5 Turbo, but the replacement's switch to a four-cylinder engine has upset the XR naming strategy – including cars such as the inline six-cylinder Falcon XR6 and V8-powered XR8 - that has been based on the cylinder count. Ford Australia's sales and marketing boss, Beth Donovan, says the ST badge also makes sense considering the company has changed all the trim level titles for the regular new Focus. "We went to Titanium from Ghia for Territory and then on Focus, so nomenclature wise we're not going to be CL, LX or Zetec anymore," she says. "We're now Ambiente, Trend, Sport and Titanium. "And as we introduce new models of passenger cars, that stragety follows. So from a nomenclature perspective, if it's well thought out... [it works]. The [Focus] RS is a good example of that. People knew what [the badge] was. Edited August 5, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 For you Ed, sounds like RS will stay FWD, no hybrid electric motors and at least 300 hp, Ford have had Ecoboost 2.0 as high as 380 hp but reliability gets tough after that....I should think so.. No AWD, and down in power to the AWD competition. Maybe Ford will bring out an AWD RS+ when the next RS gets blown away by the S versions of the Audi A-1, A-3 and TT, the VW R, the Volvo C30 R. It seems that Ford will indeed be a day late and a dollar short. Too bad. That kind of attitude got Ford EU to the pinnacle of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTwannabe Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 That's not Ecoboost, compare CX-7 with 2.3 turbo to Edge Ecoboost and you see the difference right away. The secret is in the software management, it's got 11 different herbs and spices.......... I think the steeper final drive ratio and close ratio gearbox contribute to that as well; issues that would also affect the ST. Torque steer is going to be a problem without AWD. I'm sure the ST will have a lot of features to mitigate it, but they will do it by limiting power output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I think the steeper final drive ratio and close ratio gearbox contribute to that as well; issues that would also affect the ST. Torque steer is going to be a problem without AWD. I'm sure the ST will have a lot of features to mitigate it, but they will do it by limiting power output. electronic version of Limited slip diffs= Torque Vectoring..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 electronic version of Limited slip diffs= Torque Vectoring..... Ah — Bogmatic Drive; such a pleasant driving experience. How much can RevoKnuckle cost over a standard Mac strut set-up? It does not appear to be anything exotic for fabrication: $100? $200? Memo to Ford: do NOT throw nickels around like manhole covers on a sled that's almost 30K. So, to save $200, we get something that sucks off the line or bogs through the line? Maybe they could offer RevoK as an option, but that might be a strain, and I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons why it's a silly idea to give the paying customer the ability to order the best FWD handling possible as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Ah — Bogmatic Drive; such a pleasant driving experience. How much can RevoKnuckle cost over a standard Mac strut set-up? It does not appear to be anything exotic for fabrication: $100? $200? Memo to Ford: do NOT throw nickels around like manhole covers on a sled that's almost 30K. So, to save $200, we get something that sucks off the line or bogs through the line? Maybe they could offer RevoK as an option, but that might be a strain, and I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons why it's a silly idea to give the paying customer the ability to order the best FWD handling possible as an option. in absolute agreement...lipstick on a pig springs to mind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) I think the steeper final drive ratio and close ratio gearbox contribute to that as well; issues that would also affect the ST. Torque steer is going to be a problem without AWD. I'm sure the ST will have a lot of features to mitigate it, but they will do it by limiting power output. If you look at FWD 2.3 T CX-7 and compare its city/highway mileage 17/24 with FWD V6 Edge 19/26, the Edge kills it even though it's a heavier vehicle. And then we have Ecoboost Edge with 30 mpg highway....... I think the steeper final drive ratio and close ratio gearbox contribute to that as well; issues that would also affect the ST. Torque steer is going to be a problem without AWD. I'm sure the ST will have a lot of features to mitigate it, but they will do it by limiting power output. As one who has driven an XR5 T Focus (ST) I can tell you that the former 2.5 I-5 was an absolute delight to drive, torque steer wasn't bad either...:shades: Edited August 5, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Ah — Bogmatic Drive; such a pleasant driving experience. How much can RevoKnuckle cost over a standard Mac strut set-up? It does not appear to be anything exotic for fabrication: $100? $200? Memo to Ford: do NOT throw nickels around like manhole covers on a sled that's almost 30K. So, to save $200, we get something that sucks off the line or bogs through the line? Maybe they could offer RevoK as an option, but that might be a strain, and I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons why it's a silly idea to give the paying customer the ability to order the best FWD handling possible as an option. in absolute agreement...lipstick on a pig springs to mind..... What Ford needs to reconcile is exactly how much performance North American customers are expecting from Focus ST. I see that Buick are releasing a 2.0 Turbo Regal that has 270 hp/295 lb ft, I could see that same engine going into a Cruse Sport... So where would that leave Ford and their Focus ST with expected 250 hp/270 lb ft? That's why I believe they will have to set up ST on several power levels to combat GM for one.. so perhaps that 250hp/270 lb ft will become more 270 hp/ 290 lb ft, there's all different tune levels... FoE have had the 2.0 EB up to 380 hp and still reliable...above that it gets troublesome, can't work out why...:rolleyes: And once you start looking at +300 hp through the front wheels on a 2800 lb car, you better have Revoknuckle... And what's wrong with a good old fashioned mechanical LSD in a performance Focus to give that full time meaty bite. Edited August 5, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Ah — Bogmatic Drive; such a pleasant driving experience. How much can RevoKnuckle cost over a standard Mac strut set-up? It does not appear to be anything exotic for fabrication: $100? $200? Memo to Ford: do NOT throw nickels around like manhole covers on a sled that's almost 30K. So, to save $200, we get something that sucks off the line or bogs through the line? Maybe they could offer RevoK as an option, but that might be a strain, and I'm sure there's all sorts of reasons why it's a silly idea to give the paying customer the ability to order the best FWD handling possible as an option. Revo knuckle is such a low volume component, that require alot of specialized parts. it is the lack of volume that drives the costs up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Revo knuckle is such a low volume component, that require alot of specialized parts. it is the lack of volume that drives the costs up. For those wonder what the devil we are banging on about, a Revoknuckle strut is a more sophisticated version of the Macpherson strut which allows better control of suspension and steering angles. This comparison should assist in comprehending the changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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