TomServo92 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) And watch the depreciation on your $50k either way...Which do you think looses more? Looses? 2009 MKS 5 year depreciation: $18,024 2009 E-Class 5 year depreciation: $24,889 Source Shall I quote total cost of ownership figures too? Edited September 4, 2011 by TomServo92 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Okay, but those aren't in the same class. Full size cars just don't sell as well. How is the MKZ doing? The MKZ is much better at 2.337 in August even with a very low 34,647 base price. As you can see the MKZ & MKS combined do not match the more expensive E-Class MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Looses? Depreciates more. You know, how much less is it worth in 2 or 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Depreciates more. You know, how much less is it worth in 2 or 3 years. The word is "loses". Go back and look at my post. I edited it with an answer to your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The Explorer is the best vehicle in its class Nice strawman. This Explorer is better for Ford because it's better for Ford's customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Looses? 2009 MKS 5 year depreciation: $18,024 2009 E-Class 5 year depreciation: $24,889 Source Shall I quote total cost of ownership figures too? Your little chart has $1,763 depreciation in 1 year. Hell Lincoln has more cash than that on the hood for a brand new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Your little chart has $1,763 depreciation in 1 year. Hell Lincoln has more cash than that on the hood for a brand new one. Uh, yeah right. Ran out of legit arguments and resorting to bullshit now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Uh, yeah right. Ran out of legit arguments and resorting to bullshit now? I figured ya'll realized I was just screwing with you at this point. Look, I'm a Ford fan like most BONers but I can challenge the home team and disagree with the management decisions on some issues. Surrounding yourself with yes-men / cheerleaders is part of what brought GM down after all. Edited September 4, 2011 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) The Explorer is a big hit for Ford, but sales are being overhyped when you see that Lambda volume significantly outpacing the Explorer, and Chrysler is selling more Durangos and Cherokees. It's definitely Ford's first success story in the 7-seater market in a long time. Edited September 4, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The Explorer is a big hit for Ford, but sales are being overhyped when you see that Lambda volume significantly outpacing the Explorer, and Chrysler is selling more Durangos and Cherokees. It's definitely Ford's first success story in the 7-seater market in a long time. I'm not sure about Chrysler (I think they're on a roll), but really, what good is that volume doing GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Yes, yes, you win Richard. The Explorer is the best vehicle in its class because its sales are outstanding (Aug 2011=9,901) After all the Grand Cherokee only scored 11,320 in August. WTF? Why are you comparing the sales of the Explorer to that of the GC... They're not in the same class and have completely different intents. You can't even get a 3rd row in the GC...(but you can get off-road capabilities with the Explorer - something to think about) Unless you want to use the stupid platform-cousin argument were your comparison is justified in that the GC and Durango share a common platform... Hey, you might as well count the Mercedes-Benz ML since it too shares it's platform with the Chrysler cousins... Context be damned. /strawman And it's not like the new Explorer shares any commonality in it's platform with Volve's S80, S60, V70, XC70, XC90 and Ford's very own MKS, MKT, Flex, and Taurus... I think this argument would be BS if you tried to make it like someone pointed out up above. The Explorer is a big hit for Ford, but sales are being overhyped when you see that Lambda volume significantly outpacing the Explorer, and Chrysler is selling more Durangos and Cherokees. It's definitely Ford's first success story in the 7-seater market in a long time. Chrysler sold a 38% larger volume than the Explorer(9900 of 16,000 is ~62%) across two vehicles... That, in my opinion, is not a "win" for Chrysler especially keeping with the fact that they have two complete redesigns within 1 model year. @Lambda: I'm pretty sure the Acadia, Enclave, and Traverse have more money on the hood than the Explorer where the Explorer sales significantly more than the Enclave and Acadia individually. I just don't find it relatively impressive that Chrysler and GM can sell 16-21k vehicles across 2-3 vehicles respectively when the competition is selling about half(or more in case of Chrysler twins) with just one vehicle. What are the amalgamated sales of the CDx/Dx platform vehicles? Would it even make sense to group them that way?(Serious question) Edited September 4, 2011 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) WTF? Why are you comparing the sales of the Explorer to that of the GC... They're not in the same class and have completely different intents. You can't even get a 3rd row in the GC...(but you can get off-road capabilities with the Explorer - something to think about) Unless you want to use the stupid platform-cousin argument were your comparison is justified in that the GC and Durango share a common platform... Hey, you might as well count the Mercedes-Benz ML since it too shares it's platform with the Chrysler cousins... Context be damned. /strawman And it's not like the new Explorer shares any commonality in it's platform with Volve's S80, S60, V70, XC70, XC90 and Ford's very own MKS, MKT, Flex, and Taurus... I think this argument would be BS if you tried to make it like someone pointed out up above. Recommendations: See your optometrist if you have to enlarge the font. Relax, your tone indicates control issues, take your meds as prescribed. And above all remember; The cornerstone of defeat is to underestimate the competition. Oh, and if we are going off-road I'll take the Grand Cherokee and you can take the Explorer...and a tow rope. Edited September 4, 2011 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The cornerstone of defeat is to underestimate the competition. I'll keep that in mind once I'm hired as the Explorer's CPE. Until then...................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Recommendations: See your optometrist if you have to enlarge the font. Relax, your tone indicates control issues, take your meds as prescribed. And above all remember; The cornerstone of defeat is to underestimate the competition. Oh, and if we are going off-road I'll take the Grand Cherokee and you can take the Explorer...and a tow rope. I suppose I would need AT LEAST a 1024pt font to adequately express the pity that I felt for you upon reading your nonsensical drivel. The cornerstone of a fallacious straw-man argument is to offer no refutation to the arguments presented to you, but instead further introduce straw-men by projecting your own mental conjecture on the arguer... Relax, your futile tangent indicates defeat. I'll take your offer... I get 85% of the off-road capabilities of the GC and 125% of the on-road capabilities in my Explorer I'll bring a tow rope, you bring the fire extinguisher. :shades: Edited September 4, 2011 by GT-Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 I suppose I would need AT LEAST a 1024pt font to adequately express the pity that I felt for you upon reading your nonsensical drivel. The cornerstone of a fallacious straw-man argument is to offer no refutation to the arguments presented to you, but instead further introduce straw-men by projecting your own mental conjecture on the arguer... Relax, your futile tangent indicates defeat. I'll take your offer... I get 85% of the off-road capabilities of the GC and 125% of the on-road capabilities in my Explorer I'll bring a tow rope, you bring the fire extinguisher. :shades: ...not laughing with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) I'll keep that in mind once I'm hired as the Explorer's CPE. Until then...................................... :beerchug: Edited September 4, 2011 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 ...not laughing with you. I wasn't laughing........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) Mercedes Benz E350 base price $49,400 268HP RWD performance luxury sedan Lincoln MKS base price $41,500 274HP FWD--the best Taurus ever August 2011 Mercedes E-Class sales total 5,628 ...YTD 42,702 (USA sales only) August 2011 Lincoln MKS sales total 1,498 ...YTD 7,770 Like a lot of people here, I don't understand your comparison of the E350 with MKS, the E 350 sedan is smaller than MKZ and its internal dimensions are similar to a Focus. I doubt true MB buyers would be be seen dead in a Lincoln dealership let alone be even cross shopping any Lincoln with their chosen MB product....... Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus all lack the snob value of Euro Luxury Marques.... Edited September 4, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 (edited) The Explorer is a big hit for Ford, but sales are being overhyped when you see that Lambda volume significantly outpacing the Explorer, and Chrysler is selling more Durangos and Cherokees. It's definitely Ford's first success story in the 7-seater market in a long time. Ford's the scales of economy are what really matter, they are leaving GM and Chrysler for dead... Edited September 4, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 the E 350 sedan is smaller than MKZ and its internal dimensions are similar to a Focus. In your dreams, maybe. Note that the E350 base engine is only 210 hp. The MK S is longer, but the same width, and about 70 lb heavier and with 60+ more hp. E350 Base Price $49,400 Drivetrain Rear Wheel Drive Curb Weight (lbs) 4059 City (MPG) 22 Hwy (MPG) 33 Horsepower 210@3800 Torque (lb-ft) 400@1600 - 2400 Wheelbase 113.1 Length (in.) 191.7 Width (in.) 75.9 Height (in.) 57.7 MK Z Base Price $34,605 Drivetrain Front Wheel Drive Curb Weight (lbs) 3598 City (MPG) 18 Hwy (MPG) 27 Horsepower 263@6250 Torque (lb-ft) 249@4500 Wheelbase 107.4 Length (in.) 189.8 Width (in.) 72.2 Height (in.) 56.9 MK S Base Price $41,500 Drivetrain Front Wheel Drive Curb Weight (lbs) 4127 City (MPG) 17 Hwy (MPG) 24 Horsepower 273@6250 Torque (lb-ft) 270@4250 Wheelbase 112.9 Length (in.) 204.1 Width (in.) 75.9 Height (in.) 55.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 E350 Base Price $49,400 City (MPG) 22 Hwy (MPG) 33 Horsepower 210@3800 Torque (lb-ft) 400@1600 - 2400 Those are the diesel numbers. The gas numbers are Torque: 273 ft-lbs. @ 3500 rpm Horsepower: 302 hp @ 6500 rpm City 18 Hwy 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Everyone has a right to their opinion and if they don't like something, they should be honest and just say so. If this is what they truly feel, then their courage for saying it should be honored. ...But does anyone else notice that Motor Trend's opinions on Fords are the polar opposite and 180 degrees away from everyone else's opinions. To me it seems that because Ford is viewed as a well run company by almost every single publication, Motor Trend feels the need to be the James dean rebel and trash Ford to be the different bad assed publication. The only car they seem to like is the Mustang. Almost every other test has a poor showing by the same Ford models that test well everywhere else. I've noticed that they like Ecoboost F-150s and Mustangs just fine. The Explorer is going to be a vehicle that cleans up at the dealership while being lambasted by some car mags...which, let's face it, isn't anything new for the Explorer. I admit that I find it a handsome vehicle, but I've yet to read any review that rates it high dynamically. Seeing as how the "driving experience" is supposed to matter, maybe the Explorer is suffering from the old Volvo bones it's built on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT-Keith Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 I've noticed that they like Ecoboost F-150s and Mustangs just fine. The Explorer is going to be a vehicle that cleans up at the dealership while being lambasted by some car mags...which, let's face it, isn't anything new for the Explorer. I admit that I find it a handsome vehicle, but I've yet to read any review that rates it high dynamically. Seeing as how the "driving experience" is supposed to matter, maybe the Explorer is suffering from the old Volvo bones it's built on. C&D didn't exactly have negative things to say about the Explorer's dynamics; that it has "numb, but accurate steering." Same for InsideLine. It out-handled and out-slolemed the Durango... Every performance test, the Explorer came out a head of the Durango. The Durango won because, subjectively, it felt better.(It feel like a sports car being RWD - then there's Dodge marketing it as if it were sports car) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 In your dreams, maybe. Oops, I accidentally looked up the 2-door coupe figures, I see the sedan is much bigger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 OK, I've seen talk about how the Explorer and Grand Cherokee are not competitors because the GC doesn't have seating for seven. I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and also conclude that the Escape no longer competes with the RAV-4, and that the Edge no longer competes with the Highlander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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