Focus sales hampered by supply constraints

[Hugh]

My link

 

My two cents: If Ford is getting a great profit margin over it's competitors, good. Ford doesn't look like it will ramp production up any faster for the sake of demand and sacrifice quality checks. I'm sorry Ford gets a lot more disproportionate press about bad quality (you can say when Ford messes up, they don't fool around ) and quality is still the biggest thing as far as I'm concerned.

[akirby]

My link

 

My two cents: If Ford is getting a great profit margin over it's competitors, good. Ford doesn't look like it will ramp production up any faster for the sake of demand and sacrifice quality checks. I'm sorry Ford gets a lot more disproportionate press about bad quality (you can say when Ford messes up, they don't fool around ) and quality is still the biggest thing as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think it depends on whether the demand is permanent or temporary. If it's permanent and Ford can sell enough to keep a 3rd shift busy without resorting to incentives to move them. But I don't think we'll know that for a few more months.

 

The last thing Ford wants to do is ramp up another shift then have to let them go and/or put cash on the hood to move them.

[rkisler]

I think it depends on whether the demand is permanent or temporary. If it's permanent and Ford can sell enough to keep a 3rd shift busy without resorting to incentives to move them. But I don't think we'll know that for a few more months.

 

The last thing Ford wants to do is ramp up another shift then have to let them go and/or put cash on the hood to move them.

 

You're right.

 

Another thing to consider is that you can actually get 20 hours of production on a 2-crew schedule (with overtime). So adding a third crew only allows an additional 4 hours of production. And of course, a third crew is a commitment that adds to Ford's fixed costs. Not a decision made lightly.

[Noah Harbinger]

You're right.

 

Another thing to consider is that you can actually get 20 hours of production on a 2-crew schedule (with overtime). So adding a third crew only allows an additional 4 hours of production. And of course, a third crew is a commitment that adds to Ford's fixed costs. Not a decision made lightly.

 

I don't know muchanything about work scheduling, but there are 168 hours a week, and I'd imagine that with overtime, 3 shifts could keep a plant going 24/7 - not just 24/5.

 

Even if not, continuous overtime wears on people and eventually they start making mistakes at greater rates.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Noah Harbinger

[Biker16]

ford has been using overtime since launch.

 

they have been consistently producing 5200-5300 cars per week.

 

in comparison the Escape and Fusion with 3 shifts are producing 6700-6800 per week.

 

there looks to be some changes happening to the production system in the next few months, hopefully to better utilize the 2 existing shifts or add a 3rd to make the EV and hybrids.

 

The question to ask is how many hybrids and EVs does for expect to sell. how do the Tier II workers fit into ford's plan for MAP?

[Footballfan]

With the addition of the electrics and C-Max to MAP (not to mention the Lincoln built off the Focus) , eventually Ford will need a second plant for the Focus, as they will need a second plant for the 2013 Fusion. I think the latest plan is that AutoAlliance will be used to help pick up the slack with these vehichles.

[Hugh]

Just some comments from the Autoblog on this article:

1. Folks are ticked because there isn't a 6 manual. I drove a Focus S with the 5 and it's carry over from the last-gen IIRC and it's the same one in the Fiesta. It's a good transmission. I think it's just a hold-over until something new comes around. Perhaps if Ford has the short-throw and different ratio available in the Fiesta?

Second, a commenter stated they spoke to a dealer and claims the manual will be available in Titanium trim at the end of the year. Can anyone confirm/deny this? I personally hope so.

[jpd80]

You're right.

 

Another thing to consider is that you can actually get 20 hours of production on a 2-crew schedule (with overtime). So adding a third crew only allows an additional 4 hours of production. And of course, a third crew is a commitment that adds to Ford's fixed costs. Not a decision made lightly.

 

Overtime can also be used to adjust production numbers with out adding a full shift or re-balancing the line to a higher speed.

2 x 10 hr shifts is pretty effective and adding a Saturday shift might be a good temporary option ahead of adding a third shift...

[BlackHorse]

Just some comments from the Autoblog on this article:

1. Folks are ticked because there isn't a 6 manual. I drove a Focus S with the 5 and it's carry over from the last-gen IIRC and it's the same one in the Fiesta. It's a good transmission. I think it's just a hold-over until something new comes around. Perhaps if Ford has the short-throw and different ratio available in the Fiesta?

Second, a commenter stated they spoke to a dealer and claims the manual will be available in Titanium trim at the end of the year. Can anyone confirm/deny this? I personally hope so.

 

 

1. Never believe anything a dealership tells you.

 

2. The vast majority of not only the Focus but of all cars sold today are automatics. I think manuals comprise something like 6% of overall sales. If I was Ford I wouldn't waste time and money developing a gearbox that a very small percentage of Focus buyers will opt for.

Edited September 6, 2011 by BlackHorse

[rkisler]

ford has been using overtime since launch.

 

they have been consistently producing 5200-5300 cars per week.

 

in comparison the Escape and Fusion with 3 shifts are producing 6700-6800 per week.

 

there looks to be some changes happening to the production system in the next few months, hopefully to better utilize the 2 existing shifts or add a 3rd to make the EV and hybrids.

 

The question to ask is how many hybrids and EVs does for expect to sell. how do the Tier II workers fit into ford's plan for MAP?

 

Ford might still be debating the volumes of the C-Max Hybrid and Energi. They've tied the Gen 3 hybrid system to a specific body style to try to get more recognition, somewhat like Prius. But the body style -- essentially a 2-row tall wagon -- is not seen on the streets right now, and the larger versions such as Mazda 5 have not been so successful. So calling volumes is very, very tough; it's hard to get any facts to support them, but I can assure you there are lots and lots of forcefully argued opinions.

 

The early interest in the Prius V would seem to give some indication that volumes could be decent -- I"m thinking 50-70k for the pair.

 

I think Ford is going to have to lay on a third crew, but they are holding out until the completion of UAW contract negotiations.

[GapBoyPCS]

Just some comments from the Autoblog on this article:

1. Folks are ticked because there isn't a 6 manual. I drove a Focus S with the 5 and it's carry over from the last-gen IIRC and it's the same one in the Fiesta. It's a good transmission. I think it's just a hold-over until something new comes around. Perhaps if Ford has the short-throw and different ratio available in the Fiesta?

Second, a commenter stated they spoke to a dealer and claims the manual will be available in Titanium trim at the end of the year. Can anyone confirm/deny this? I personally hope so.

 

In this market segment, there are people that still want a manual transmission. Even with the Fusion, there are still those who look at, say, the Japanese or European marques and see the option. So, they look at Ford and say: Well, why don't you offer one as well?

 

The Canadian sales brochure says "Late Availability" for a Titanium manual transmission. That being said, Canadians can still get an SEL with a manual (as high-level as you can get with a manual). It's hard to say how many folks are getting them - most of the ones I see on dealer lots are all PowerShift. One of the local dealers around me has ordered SEL manuals in stock, but that seems rare for the others. At this rate, I find it hard for Ford to offer a Titanium manual transmission if people aren't snatching up SEL manuals (the only differences really being seat trim and design, wheels, and suspension tuning).

[Biker16]

With the addition of the electrics and C-Max to MAP (not to mention the Lincoln built off the Focus) , eventually Ford will need a second plant for the Focus, as they will need a second plant for the 2013 Fusion. I think the latest plan is that AutoAlliance will be used to help pick up the slack with these vehicles.

 

I think ford will take HAP down and bring in the Transit connect for North and south America, use HAP as the Focus and Fusion overflow plant, and to supply Fusions for South America. I could see The C-max 7 slotted in at HAP with the idea of selling it in low volumes in south America and north America.

 

the trade agreements with Brazil require Mexican production.

 

AAI should be on the Future product list because KCAP and HAP have do not have products yet. AAI may keep the mustang for all global markets, and add GRWD ford and Lincoln production in the future. ford will likeley wait until Mazda leaves before taking any action on the plant.

 

Just some comments from the Autoblog on this article:

1. Folks are ticked because there isn't a 6 manual. I drove a Focus S with the 5 and it's carry over from the last-gen IIRC and it's the same one in the Fiesta. It's a good transmission. I think it's just a hold-over until something new comes around. Perhaps if Ford has the short-throw and different ratio available in the Fiesta?

Second, a commenter stated they spoke to a dealer and claims the manual will be available in Titanium trim at the end of the year. Can anyone confirm/deny this? I personally hope so.

 

the 5 spd is not shared with the Fiesta, it is the MTX 75 Which is the same Tranny used in the Zetec focus for 1999, and Debuted in the Contour in 1995. the Tranny is solid.

 

You have to look to the EU for its replacement, the MMT6 is a Dual Layshaft Transmission, and the recently introduced Single-layshaft MT6. the MMT6was the basis for the powershift AMT used in the focus today, the MT6 is a lighter and simpler design than the MMT6 and looks to replace the MMT6 and MTX75 in the lineup, as it's volume is increased. the MT6 is cost effective enough to replace the 5spd MTX75. the MT6 debuted on the 1.6 Ecoboost powered C-max and Mk3 focus, last fall.

 

Soo, If we extrapolate that the focus ST will use the MT6 it is possible Ford could then add the MT6 to the higher end focus models like the Titanium as the ST will be pulling enough volume to make the addition more cost effective to do.

 

to me the best indicator of the sales for a manual are the orders for fully loaded SE sports, with manuals.

 

I know I am grasping at straws here, but you have to have hope.

 

Ford might still be debating the volumes of the C-Max Hybrid and Energi. They've tied the Gen 3 hybrid system to a specific body style to try to get more recognition, somewhat like Prius. But the body style -- essentially a 2-row tall wagon -- is not seen on the streets right now, and the larger versions such as Mazda 5 have not been so successful. So calling volumes is very, very tough; it's hard to get any facts to support them, but I can assure you there are lots and lots of forcefully argued opinions.

 

The early interest in the Prius V would seem to give some indication that volumes could be decent -- I"m thinking 50-70k for the pair.

 

I think Ford is going to have to lay on a third crew, but they are holding out until the completion of UAW contract negotiations.

 

i think the market for small MPVs is waiting for a mainline manufacture like ford to mkae that niche mainstream. Talking with people At NAIAS there was alot of demand for a vehicle like the C-max 7. The media seems to have the issue categorizing the vehilce more than the perspective buyers do.

 

i think all plant announcements are waiting for the completion of the UAW negotiations.

 

In this market segment, there are people that still want a manual transmission. Even with the Fusion, there are still those who look at, say, the Japanese or European marques and see the option. So, they look at Ford and say: Well, why don't you offer one as well?

 

The Canadian sales brochure says "Late Availability" for a Titanium manual transmission. That being said, Canadians can still get an SEL with a manual (as high-level as you can get with a manual). It's hard to say how many folks are getting them - most of the ones I see on dealer lots are all PowerShift. One of the local dealers around me has ordered SEL manuals in stock, but that seems rare for the others. At this rate, I find it hard for Ford to offer a Titanium manual transmission if people aren't snatching up SEL manuals (the only differences really being seat trim and design, wheels, and suspension tuning).

 

The Titanium is more sport-luxury while the SEL is more luxury. I think that more Titanium buyer would gravitate towards the manual than SEL buyers.

 

add in an optional Eco-boost 1.6 and I think you would have more demand for the Manual as well.

[aneekr]

You have to look to the EU for its replacement, the MMT6 is a Dual Layshaft Transmission, and the recently introduced Single-layshaft MT6. the MMT6was the basis for the powershift AMT used in the focus today, the MT6 is a lighter and simpler design than the MMT6 and looks to replace the MMT6 and MTX75 in the lineup, as it's volume is increased. the MT6 is cost effective enough to replace the 5spd MTX75. the MT6 debuted on the 1.6 Ecoboost powered C-max and Mk3 focus, last fall.

 

Soo, If we extrapolate that the focus ST will use the MT6 it is possible Ford could then add the MT6 to the higher end focus models like the Titanium as the ST will be pulling enough volume to make the addition more cost effective to do.

Biker16, do you know if either the MMT6 or the MT6 were designed in-house by Ford? Or are these sourced from another manufacturer like Getrag, Mazda, PSA, etc.?

[MKII]

I am try to get an understanding how this decision is made by Ford N.A. to offer manual or not to offer manual and to which markets.

EG: Ford decided to offer the Focus SEL in Canada (very small market) with the 5spd manual, but not in the USA.

Ford Canada monthly Focus sales are 2,000-3000 units.

The car is built on the same line at MAP, SEL for USA nope do not put the manual in that car, next SEL coming done the line is for Canada, yep put a manual in that one.

Where is the cost effectiveness in this scenario. And how does this so called cost factor become a negative to slap a manual in the Titanium coming down the line. Are not all trim levels certified for the manual or are there other factors.

Did Ford N.A. find a cost effective way to put the manual in the SEL to a small market like Canada, but could not in a market 10 times the size of Canada.

This cost effective excuse does not make sense in this scenario.

Edited September 6, 2011 by MKII

[akirby]

I am try to get an understanding how this decision is made by Ford N.A. to offer manual or not to offer manual and to which markets.

EG: Ford decided to offer the Focus SEL in Canada (very small market) with the 5spd manual, but not in the USA.

Ford Canada monthly Focus sales are 2,000-3000 units.

The car is built on the same line at MAP, SEL for USA nope do not put the manual in that car, next SEL coming done the line is for Canada, yep put a manual in that one.

Where is the cost effectiveness in this scenario. And how does this so called cost factor become a negative to slap a manual in the Titanium coming down the line. Are not all trim levels certified for the manual or are there other factors.

Did Ford N.A. find a cost effective way to put the manual in the SEL to a small market like Canada, but could not in a market 10 times the size of Canada.

This cost effective excuse does not make sense in this scenario.

 

U.S. CAFE may be one reason. Doesn't the powershift DSG get better fuel economy?

 

Besides - the ST is coming with a manual so that might also be a reason. Is Canada getting the ST?

 

Canada has always been different. You could get a Lincoln LS in Canada with cloth seats but not in the states. You could get a non-sport package V8 LS in Canada but not in the states (03-06).

[Hugh]

In this market segment, there are people that still want a manual transmission. Even with the Fusion, there are still those who look at, say, the Japanese or European marques and see the option. So, they look at Ford and say: Well, why don't you offer one as well?

 

The Canadian sales brochure says "Late Availability" for a Titanium manual transmission. That being said, Canadians can still get an SEL with a manual (as high-level as you can get with a manual). It's hard to say how many folks are getting them - most of the ones I see on dealer lots are all PowerShift. One of the local dealers around me has ordered SEL manuals in stock, but that seems rare for the others. At this rate, I find it hard for Ford to offer a Titanium manual transmission if people aren't snatching up SEL manuals (the only differences really being seat trim and design, wheels, and suspension tuning).

Agree and thanks for the information. I never said people are not getting a manual. I said people are asking why there isn't a 6-speed manual. I think Ford is getting the Power-Shift online while using the MTX 75 which again I state is a fine transmission in it's own right just maybe outdated in some customers minds.

 

The Fiesta manual has a designation AEO B5 on the dealer websites, can anyone comment?

Edited September 6, 2011 by Hugh

[Hugh]

U.S. CAFE may be one reason. Doesn't the powershift DSG get better fuel economy?

 

Besides - the ST is coming with a manual so that might also be a reason. Is Canada getting the ST?

 

Canada has always been different. You could get a Lincoln LS in Canada with cloth seats but not in the states. You could get a non-sport package V8 LS in Canada but not in the states (03-06).

Canada is getting the ST but I don't know how different we are going with available packages. Sometimes it's just a different name such as the 'Canadian Touring Package' in the 2011-12 Edge which is a Moon and Tunes pkg.

[Deanh]

1. Never believe anything a dealership tells you.

 

2. The vast majority of not only the Focus but of all cars sold today are automatics. I think manuals comprise something like 6% of overall sales. If I was Ford I wouldn't waste time and money developing a gearbox that a very small percentage of Focus buyers will opt for.

exactly why the St wont be available with a manual trans....oh wait.....lol

[Biker16]

Biker16, do you know if either the MMT6 or the MT6 were designed in-house by Ford? Or are these sourced from another manufacturer like Getrag, Mazda, PSA, etc.?

 

both are getrag designs, built at Getrag/Ford JV plants.

[Biker16]

Agree and thanks for the information. I never said people are not getting a manual. I said people are asking why there isn't a 6-speed manual. I think Ford is getting the Power-Shift online while using the MTX 75 which again I state is a fine transmission in it's own right just maybe outdated in some customers minds.

 

The Fiesta manual has a designation AEO B5 on the dealer websites, can anyone comment?

 

Manual transmission are strange beasts because the pace of innovation has been stagnant over the last 10-15 years. during that time the Auto have become more and more advanced moving from 3 speeds to even 7 and 8 speeds in that time frame.

 

manuals have been at 5 speeds for almost 2 decades, there haven't been the market forces to force rapid changes in thier design like their have been for Automatics. they are so stupid simple their isn't a way to make them more efficient than they already are, so we have been stuck at 5 gears for most of the last 20 years, with few complains from customers.

 

the Fiesta uses the IB5 transaxle, this design dates back to 1976 and the IB4, in 1982 the IB5 debuted.

 

the story is that manual transmission can have a very long design life.

[Biker16]

the ST will have to use the WET clutch AMT it generates too much torque for the Dry Clutch model used in the Focus and Fiesta right now.

[brooks1083]

Manual transmission are strange beasts because the pace of innovation has been stagnant over the last 10-15 years. during that time the Auto have become more and more advanced moving from 3 speeds to even 7 and 8 speeds in that time frame.

 

manuals have been at 5 speeds for almost 2 decades, there haven't been the market forces to force rapid changes in thier design like their have been for Automatics. they are so stupid simple their isn't a way to make them more efficient than they already are, so we have been stuck at 5 gears for most of the last 20 years, with few complains from customers.

 

the Fiesta uses the IB5 transaxle, this design dates back to 1976 and the IB4, in 1982 the IB5 debuted.

 

the story is that manual transmission can have a very long design life.

 

I would have loved to have a 6 speed focus. But I also wanted the Titanium trim level which isn't an option to get a manual. Not the worst thing in the world to have an auto, I just feel a little less attached to the vehicle when I'm driving.

[BlackHorse]

exactly why the St wont be available with a manual trans....oh wait.....lol

 

And the ST will comprise a fraction of a precent of overall Focus sales. I know that some of you guys are diehard stick shift fans and I have nothing against a manual transmission. But the reality is that probably within 20 years they will be completely nonexistent in new cars.

[Deanh]

And the ST will comprise a fraction of a precent of overall Focus sales. I know that some of you guys are diehard stick shift fans and I have nothing against a manual transmission. But the reality is that probably within 20 years they will be completely nonexistent in new cars.

as much as I hate to say it you may be correct...but not in my lifetime...I'll get an auto when i live in Seisure world, snipping discount coupons for Adult diapers....