silvrsvt Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Smaller pulley = more boost = more emissions = more stress on engine components = less durability. Not to mention that the 5.8 or 351 (I like the sound of that better) Gives you more "headroom" to keep improving the HP...so maybe the SuperSnake will be in the 800-900 HP Range? Thats downright INSANE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 800 is extreme, but 625 is but a smaller pulley away....seems a hell of a lot simpler than this route.... The cubes are important when matching it with competitors like Camaro (6.2) and Challenger (392) a Shelby with blown 5.8 (351) sounds more up to the task, it is more marketable than say a blown 5.0 Coyote.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Smaller pulley = more boost = more emissions = more stress on engine components = less durability. not that much, but anyways...riddle me this...why are they investing 50 MILLION on a limited edition engine....could the engine also show up normally aspirated?....i mean it does equate to a rather famous number.....351....could there be another limited run Mustang in the future with those numbers on the side?.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 not that much, but anyways...riddle me this...why are they investing 50 MILLION on a limited edition engine....could the engine also show up normally aspirated?....i mean it does equate to a rather famous number.....351....could there be another limited run Mustang in the future with those numbers on the side?.... Could be used elsewhere perhaps, but like I said, it's not the first time Ford has developed a proprietary engine for the Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Could be used elsewhere perhaps, but like I said, it's not the first time Ford has developed a proprietary engine for the Mustang. I just see $50mill as one hell of a chunk of change for what sort of return on a limited run of GT500's.....which is why I mentioned perha[ps there is more in the engines future than we know....6.2 replacement?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just see $50mill as one hell of a chunk of change for what sort of return on a limited run of GT500's.....which is why I mentioned perha[ps there is more in the engines future than we know....6.2 replacement?..... I doubt the bespoke 5.4 DOHC in the '00 Cobra R cost a whole heck of a lot less to develop, and that only went into 300 cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I just see $50mill as one hell of a chunk of change for what sort of return on a limited run of GT500's.....which is why I mentioned perha[ps there is more in the engines future than we know....6.2 replacement?..... Or....possibly replace the 6.2L with the 5.8L in the F-150 trucks as the premium V-8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Or....possibly replace the 6.2L with the 5.8L in the F-150 trucks as the premium V-8. there we go....personally im not too impressed with the 6.2....the whole 2 plugs percylinder thingy shouts making up for inferior combustion to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I doubt the bespoke 5.4 DOHC in the '00 Cobra R cost a whole heck of a lot less to develop, and that only went into 300 cars. that was just heads no? this is bore which means heads as well....and didnt the 5.4 DOHC get shoehorned into the Navigator?.....Im reaching here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I just see $50mill as one hell of a chunk of change for what sort of return on a limited run of GT500's.....which is why I mentioned perha[ps there is more in the engines future than we know....6.2 replacement?..... It's not, other things are happening at Romeo engine plant: Romeo Engine PlantTruck leadership is requiring the continuation of the 6.2L V8, a key engine in Ford's truck lineup. The 5.4L Supercharged engine gets upgraded to a 5.8L. The machining of 5.0L blocks continues and 5.0L connecting rod machining is introduced. The 4.6L balances out after a very successful life cycle. Total investment is $50M. Edited October 5, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) that was just heads no? this is bore which means heads as well....and didnt the 5.4 DOHC get shoehorned into the Navigator?.....Im reaching here.... Enlarging the bore is the cheap part of development. Most of the block engineering is already done at that point. It's all of the other component engineering and testing (rods, pistons, heads, intake - which were unique to the Cobra R and not used in any other vehicles) that costs money. While the DOHC 5.4 went into the Navigator, it wasn't quite the same setup as used in the Cobra R. And based on the clip above, it sounds like $50M is the entire investment in the Romeo plant, not just for the 5.8. Edited October 5, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Enlarging the bore is the cheap part of development. Most of the block engineering is already done at that point. It's all of the other component engineering and testing (rods, pistons, heads, intake - which were unique to the Cobra R and not used in any other vehicles) that costs money. While the DOHC 5.4 went into the Navigator, it wasn't quite the same setup as used in the Cobra R. And based on the clip above, it sounds like $50M is the entire investment in the Romeo plant, not just for the 5.8. thx, its the plant...couldnt get my head around the business case of just the 5.8...LOVE IT, the 351 is back....wish they were making it in Cleveland though.....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Enlarging the bore is the cheap part of development. Only if the bore centers permit. Otherwise, the re-work is virtually a new design, and megabucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I doubt the bespoke 5.4 DOHC in the '00 Cobra R cost a whole heck of a lot less to develop, and that only went into 300 cars. It may have. For such a small run you've got cheaper tooling options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 When they mention "upgraded" it makes it sound like Ford just bored the 5.4L out to the 5.0L bore size,used their new spray bore liner and called it a day.Ford played around with this on the 4.6L before so nothing seems unusual especially on a low volume car such as the Shelby. But if Ford is being coy with their info(dont want to tip your hand to GM) it may be the "upgraded" 5.4L may be a tall deck 5.0L Coyote. It wouldn't be all that expensive seeing Ford has already done this with the 4.6/5.4. Ford has already said they had used the thinnest possible bore liner with the 5.0L,but imagine a shorter deck height than the current 5.4L but with a spray bore liner. That would net you more weight savings over the 5.4L alumnum block. Better fuel economy. Better packaging. More durability due to the Coyotes piston oil squirters & coolant routing. More POWAH due to the Coyotes heads,TIVCT. More POWAH with less boost & an extended RPM range. Most if not all of the(supercharging) engineering work done by the kind folks in Australia. Now,make a naturally aspirated version & call it the Mach 1. P.S. There is already a stroker kit that brings the 5.0L to a 5.8L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) I've been hoping for this engine since the 5.0 came out. The 5.0 uses the same bore centers as the 4.6, so it would seem to me that this new 5.8 is a 5.4 with the 5.0 bore. Could make a good base engine for superduty and another option in F150 seems almost like a no brainer. Don't forget the 6.2 is at the very bottom of it's potential - 2v and SOHC - it has a lot of headroom (there has been talk of 4v/DOHC heads for it, add in TiVCT maybe DI and you can see this engine isn't even starting to reach it's potential) and if they realize that headroom it opens up space for this 5.8 as a base motor in superduty and could make a great raptor/premium motor, could go in the new expy/navi, would almost definitely go into RWD Lincoln if we get one, would already fit in the Falcon, E-series, etc, etc. All of that said, I was really hoping for an EcoBoost 5.0 in the next GT500 - but this 5.8 will definitely get the job done! Edited October 5, 2011 by Captainp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 the 2013 GT500 that was at the ring WAS tested with an IRS system..... Where are you getting this from? Sources are saying IRS isn't coming until MY2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Where are you getting this from? Sources are saying IRS isn't coming until MY2015. They could be testing it now, as who knows what the chassis was that was tested. While the next Mustang is supposed to be slightly smaller, its track width will probably stay pretty close to what it is currently, so testing out the future IRS on a mule with current sheet metal . . . could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision street wear Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 The majority of the $50 million is for the 5.0L expansion program. 6.2L lives on in F150....no 5.8L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstwister Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 5.4 to 5.8 is around 20 cubes. Ford could change bore and possibly connecting rod and piston pin height and get there without major structural changes to block and heads. . Wasn't it Roush or SVT(?) playing with a 7.0L cammer of sorts a while back? Seems to me there were some videos/still pics floating around on the net. A 6.2 could be bored and stoked to get 7.0 but would take plenty of engineering. 7.0 = 429 apprx. Boss 429 anybody? Maybe limited run to replace Shelby GT500 for a few years? Either that or Shelby could use more cubes and no power adder. Hard to tell which way they'll go. I'm sure it is a pipe dream, but damn it would be cool to see "new" Boss 429! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atvman Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 They could be testing it now, as who knows what the chassis was that was tested. While the next Mustang is supposed to be slightly smaller, its track width will probably stay pretty close to what it is currently, so testing out the future IRS on a mule with current sheet metal . . . could be. It would be cool to see it debut in the GT500 beforehand though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 The majority of the $50 million is for the 5.0L expansion program. 6.2L lives on in F150....no 5.8L. Internally, the 6.2 is viewed as being on thin ice due to the success of EB V6 in F150 and retention of V10 for larger SDs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Where are you getting this from? Sources are saying IRS isn't coming until MY2015. testing is the operative word.....my guess is variants of the 2015 model chassis parts ARE being sneakily developed under familiar exteriors.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I was surprised that Ford didn't increase the bore size of the 5.4 when they announced the new PTWA process for the 2011s. The spray bore technology allows for a much thinner cylinder liner than is possible with a pressed in liner which means to gain displacement there is no need to change bore spacing or connecting rod length or anything else other than new pistons. They could change the cylinder head valve spacing to take advantage of the larger bore size but that would seem a bit extreme. I could see an increase in valve sizes though and that would not require a total redesign of the heads. Has anyone heard if they plan to start doing the PTWA process in-house? I believe the current 5.4L blocks are purchased from Honsel, a German company that was recently taken over by Martinrea. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Martinrea-International-Inc-iw-302368700.html?x=0&.v=1 I don't know for certain but I assume Honsel is also doing the spray bore process under license from Ford. When are they going to start using this technology on more mainstream products? Or have they done so already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vision street wear Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Internally, the 6.2 is viewed as being on thin ice due to the success of EB V6 in F150 and retention of V10 for larger SDs... This is true. Just my opinion, it doesn't make sense to have the 5.8L, 5.0, 5.4 (granted it is phasing out), 6.2, and the 3.5 GTDI. The 6.2L seems like the odd duck in the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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