Two Ford Plants Reject UAW Deal

[RichardJensen]

dissidents within the UAW

Crap flows downhill.

 

The demagogues at the UAW locals were taking their cues from a leader that spent his first ten months on the job as demagogue in chief.

 

This would be a close vote regardless; the UAW wants pattern bargaining and Ford wants pattern bargaining but Ford is clearly in a different place than GM & Chrysler, so no matter what, Ford rank and file would be agitating for better deals.

 

That's a given, and King should have known that better than anyone else when he failed to get Ford the same concessions as GM & Chrysler in '09.

 

Instead the guy spends nearly a year pandering to the very loons that he needs to shut up and keep quiet, and this is the result.

 

If this vote fails at Ford, if the UAW can't keep locals from calling wildcat strikes, the UAW will replace Bob King so fast it'll make your head spin. F'r cryin' out loud, this is HIS old department! He probably knows ever nut in every local, and he did NOTHING to smooth this passage. What the heck is wrong with him?

[Hugh]

These sort of problems didn't occur with the C170 Focus assembled at Wayne last year.

 

I blame management, not the UAW, vis a vis the Focus: I think they totally misjudged the complexity of switching to C2 and "One Ford", and I hope they're learning daily what they screwed up and how.

 

Frankly, it looks like we not only got a EU engineered platform, we also got EU build quality. And I'm wondering what higher-up decided to release clearly defective vehicles from the batch/hold when they refused to do this with the Flex, Edge, and new Taurus.

I don't understand where I placed in Bold. Has there been issues with the builds in Germany, Russia and ROW? I went to the dealership on my way home and I haven't seen the issues we see in the pictures in this thread.

I didn't think there was any issues with C170 after how many years of getting it right? Yes I agree there's an issue but there's got to be more substantiation.

[Hugh]

question, and nothing inflamatory.....why does the UAW feel they deserve more from Ford than GM and Chrysler?.....

+1. Isn't there a lot more emotion because of the rest of the economic climate? Take the "Occupy Wall St." for example. I feel folks are not thinking this through and just reacting.

[RichardJensen]

Has there been issues with the builds in Germany

Ford's JDP scores in Europe are consistently lower, and significantly lower than they are stateside. I know that US used sophisticated tools to model assembly processes on recent launches, and I wonder if those tools were used to engineer C1/C2 (I doubt they were. C2 is basically a mild upgrade of C1 and C1 was engineered before Ford bought/implemented many of their 'virtual assembly' software and tools)

Edited October 14, 2011 by RichardJensen

[povertyknob]

question, and nothing inflamatory.....why does the UAW feel they deserve more from Ford than GM and Chrysler?.....

The hourly folks feel like they were part of the reason Ford didn't have to take a bailout.You can disagree with that-and I do, but that's their reasoning. What's mind boggling is that Ford agreed to give them more than GM and there is still such a groundswell of no votes.I'm not sure when the IUAW lost the trust of the rank and file but it makes it pretty easy for agitators to stir things up.When the International called the plant reps to Detroit they should have made it damned clear that this was as good as it was going to get and required every plant chairman to indicate that he/she understood. That there is such resistance to what seems like a reasonable contract kind of takes the United out of UAW.

[twmalonehunter]

The hourly folks feel like they were part of the reason Ford didn't have to take a bailout.You can disagree with that-and I do, but that's their reasoning. What's mind boggling is that Ford agreed to give them more than GM and there is still such a groundswell of no votes.I'm not sure when the IUAW lost the trust of the rank and file but it makes it pretty easy for agitators to stir things up.When the International called the plant reps to Detroit they should have made it damned clear that this was as good as it was going to get and required every plant chairman to indicate that he/she understood. That there is such resistance to what seems like a reasonable contract kind of takes the United out of UAW.

 

The ONLY reason ford did not need a bailout is because they mortgaged everything before the collapse if the economy and had cash. Either luck or brilliance on Mulally's part. It's debatable.

[PREMiERdrum]

Sounds like AAI and Cleveland passed the contract tonight...

[Hugh]

Ford's JDP scores in Europe are consistently lower, and significantly lower than they are stateside. I know that US used sophisticated tools to model assembly processes on recent launches, and I wonder if those tools were used to engineer C1/C2 (I doubt they were. C2 is basically a mild upgrade of C1 and C1 was engineered before Ford bought/implemented many of their 'virtual assembly' software and tools)

Okay thanks. My concern with the current complaints here is that they can take a life of it's own on the 'interwebs' instead of reality.

[Hugh]

Sounds like AAI and Cleveland passed the contract tonight...

Do you have a link? I know they both stand to gain from this deal.

[PREMiERdrum]

Do you have a link? I know they both stand to gain from this deal.

 

It's members on the Facebook page. I'll update with links when I find them. Cleveland passed by 142 votes, apparently.

[Hugh]

It's members on the Facebook page. I'll update with links when I find them. Cleveland passed by 142 votes, apparently.

142? 58 votes in Wayne I think? Man, those are close.

[PREMiERdrum]

The negatardary on the Facebook page is astonishing:

This contract gives us absolutely no JOB SECURITY! The money that they promise is not going to be given to you when you are unemployed. Many people on the outside of the union or non workers do not realize that the workload and type of work that we do is permanently ruining our bodies and shortening our life. The friction in the union right now is between the tiered employees, which is exactly what Ford had in mind when they implemented that system. Yes, divide us so they can break the union! Wise up!

In 1995 Ford had 105,000 hourly employees, now we have 41,000. How long before your number is up?

 

Just what Mullaly wants. A busted union calling each other names and making threats. Sometimes I wonder if this page was created by Mr. Mullally himself. We are all brothers and sisters here. Don't threaten or call somebody names just because they are expressing their opinion on the contract.

 

the UAW created this site for all the anti-union ilk to browbeat ford workers to make them vote yes. all one has to do is read a few anti-union free press comments in the auto section to see the same people. sold-out house has little if any credibility left. they threw retirees out with the bath water while they will enjoy dual pensions and creating jobs at sold-out house for friends and family. settles still has not explained the 90million the uaw pays annually to friends and family to be "stenographers" at 160k per year......come on settles, you and yours created this mess AND this site...why don't you post here?

the unmitigated gall of uaw to try to threaten and intimidate the membership into a yes vote. they now surely know the feelings of the rank and file uaw member, yet we are dismissed as simple minded or ignorant of "the big picture" every member of the uaw should be outraged at this kind of thought process of the union upper leadership and we should all consider a no confidence petition to get people in position who truly have OUR best interest at heart.

[Len_A]

agreed....I remember the initial chestbumping postering....I thought to myself...you have GOT to be kidding me...hasnt worked out too well has it...no academy award here gents, the "acting" was un-necessary, illguided and mis-placed....I beleive, if anything hes done his members an in-justice, ford played nice, sutures will be needed to close the gunshot wound in the foot...

What do you expect from a guy who has a law degree, but never bothered to practice law. Hamming it up for the cameras. What an idiot.

[FordBuyer]

Do you have a link? I know they both stand to gain from this deal.

 

The latest Detroit News report at 9:17PM says that total vote so far is 54% NO to 46% YES. I don't know if that includes AAI or not. Either way, I believe only about 15% of total vote is in. Long way to go.

[PREMiERdrum]

Saline: No 59%, Yes 41%

Cleveland: Yes 57%, No 43%

[Hugh]

The negatardary on the Facebook page is astonishing:

I am completely overwhelmed. I expect this from a fringe site or a conspirator theorist (my 'CT' side says it's a deliberate PSY-OP attack on FOMCO however, only Hollywood can gin something like that up) blog. Just wow...'Double Face-Palm'.

[RichardJensen]

What is this all about? Seriously. This is a better package than GM is getting. What on EARTH do these people want?

 

I mean, seriously, what do these people want? The nature of the work can't change. It's back-breaking labor. It always has been, and to a greater or lesser extent it always will be. I couldn't do it, but my grandfather did (~40 years Saginaw Steering). What can Ford do for these people? Pay raises? They're getting $16k in guaranteed bonuses over the course of this contract. Over 4 years that's roughly equivalent to a 25% raise for an assembly worker taking home $32k per year ($16/hour no overtime), and that doesn't count profit sharing which (for the first time) will not be based strictly on profit.

 

I just don't get it. Where do these people get off acting as though a job guarantee means a goddamn thing? What were job guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were product guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were they worth at Ford? Nothing. The economy goes in the crapper and jobs go away. That's simply how it works.

[fordmantpw]

What is this all about? Seriously. This is a better package than GM is getting. What on EARTH do these people want?

 

I mean, seriously, what do these people want? The nature of the work can't change. It's back-breaking labor. It always has been, and to a greater or lesser extent it always will be. I couldn't do it, but my grandfather did (~40 years Saginaw Steering). What can Ford do for these people? Pay raises? They're getting $16k in guaranteed bonuses over the course of this contract. Over 4 years that's roughly equivalent to a 25% raise for an assembly worker taking home $32k per year ($16/hour no overtime), and that doesn't count profit sharing which (for the first time) will not be based strictly on profit.

 

I just don't get it. Where do these people get off acting as though a job guarantee means a goddamn thing? What were job guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were product guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were they worth at Ford? Nothing. The economy goes in the crapper and jobs go away. That's simply how it works.

 

 

bububububububut Mulally got a hundred bazillion gillion dollars!!

[RichardJensen]

Would the UAW rejectionists prefer Nasser @ Ford? Waggoner? Nardelli? Akerson? Henderson? Gary Whatever from DTP? Bob King?

[aneekr]

Would the UAW rejectionists prefer Nasser @ Ford? Waggoner? Nardelli? Akerson? Henderson? Gary Whatever from DTP? Bob King?

Having any of the listed individuals at the helm would dissolve the Ford Motor Company we currently recognize in short order. Perhaps that's exactly what the rejectionists desire. They must be quite familiar with Pyrrhic victories.

[jpd80]

What is this all about? Seriously. This is a better package than GM is getting. What on EARTH do these people want?

 

I mean, seriously, what do these people want? The nature of the work can't change. It's back-breaking labor. It always has been, and to a greater or lesser extent it always will be. I couldn't do it, but my grandfather did (~40 years Saginaw Steering). What can Ford do for these people? Pay raises? They're getting $16k in guaranteed bonuses over the course of this contract. Over 4 years that's roughly equivalent to a 25% raise for an assembly worker taking home $32k per year ($16/hour no overtime), and that doesn't count profit sharing which (for the first time) will not be based strictly on profit.

 

I just don't get it. Where do these people get off acting as though a job guarantee means a goddamn thing? What were job guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were product guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were they worth at Ford? Nothing. The economy goes in the crapper and jobs go away. That's simply how it works.

It has to do with mind set RJ, the UAW is so set its ways with Fixed costs like COLA , in some ways I wish Ford would rejigger the figures

to give them the same thing but in a traditional format that seems "safer" to the rank and file, it's almost as though the UAW has set out to

derail l the idea of profit based bonuses and the philosophy behind it - too much "looking over the fence " at with GM's agreement has made

passing this Ford agreement a nightmare............ thinking better conditions are possible when in fact they are getting more than GM workers.

[BlackHorse]

What is this all about? Seriously. This is a better package than GM is getting. What on EARTH do these people want?

 

I mean, seriously, what do these people want? The nature of the work can't change. It's back-breaking labor. It always has been, and to a greater or lesser extent it always will be. I couldn't do it, but my grandfather did (~40 years Saginaw Steering). What can Ford do for these people? Pay raises? They're getting $16k in guaranteed bonuses over the course of this contract. Over 4 years that's roughly equivalent to a 25% raise for an assembly worker taking home $32k per year ($16/hour no overtime), and that doesn't count profit sharing which (for the first time) will not be based strictly on profit.

 

I just don't get it. Where do these people get off acting as though a job guarantee means a goddamn thing? What were job guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were product guarantees worth at GM & Chrysler? What were they worth at Ford? Nothing. The economy goes in the crapper and jobs go away. That's simply how it works.

 

 

If these clowns go on strike I'm trading my Ford the next day and I won't be back. I'll buy nothing but cars from non-union plants the rest of my days.

[StangBang]

Another reason for me to buy a Fiesta..

 

If it was left up to just me we would have kept the Fusion we had for two years which had ZERO defects of any kind! Also my 08 Mustang had absolutely no build quality issues although there were a couple of parts quality issues that had to be replaced or repaired under warranty.

 

My brother and one of my aunts works performing assembly at the BMW plant in Spartanburg, SC. They are grateful to have their jobs, especially my brother who was an engineer laid off from Collins and Ackman carpet and trim plant several years ago just before they went bankrupt and closed down.

Edited October 14, 2011 by StangBang

[BrewfanGRB]

I bought a 2012 Focus that was built the end of April. I have the doors that aren't aligned on the driver's side between the front and rear door (like pictured earler). Missing bumper stops on the underside of the trunk lid. Many blemishes in the paint-- bubbles, runs, dirt. (I know it's painted by a machine, but where's the QC?). Overall, a great car that's overshadowed by poor assembly and QC. No excuse for that in this day and age.

 

There have been many youtube postings on the door alignment and other issues. There has been many of the push button start vehicles with the cover missing over the ignition cylinder, one was just delivered to the dealer this week with this issue. I have heard the stories of bad tail lamp fastening and misaligned hoods and tailgates. Alot of the earlier builds that had the parking package had the buttons installed in the dash, but the harness was left unplugged to the buttons. Fortunately mine didn't have these.

 

I hate to admit that my 2010 Fusion that was built in Mexico was one of the best built out of the 18 Ford vehicles that I have owned. The quality of that car was exceptional. I am all for buying stuff made in the USA, but this type of talk and poor assembly really sours my ownership experience with a car produced by the UAW.

 

I am a huge Ford advocate, supporter and a shareholder.....but this is just embarrassing.

 

I completely agree. My 09 Fusion is my first new Ford (my only other Ford was a 76 Granada, which was my first car and well...it was a 76 Granada). Anyway, when I was getting ready to buy a car, I was poking around at a lot of things. A big influence was that I get X Plan through work, but it wasn't end-all, be-all: I was considering a Sonata, a Legacy, debating whether to do an SUV instead with a Santa Fe or Edge...possibly a used Passat (quickly ruled out for obvious reasons)...I was all over the place. But, Ford's plan sold me---continuously improving quality, technology and lots of features for a good price. My car has not let me down---72000 miles in 31 months and no misaligned panels, no squeaks, no rattles, no problems. I love it. And I became an ardent, committed "Ford guy".

 

But this approach by UAW membership is disconcerting and frustrating. I don't get to have a say on their pay. I don't have to buy the cars they build. Frankly, anyone who complains about their contract because of what 1 person--the CEO--makes is enough to turn me off outright anyway because it's such stupid thinking, I don't want that person building the car I have to drive everyday.

 

If the UAW (either nationally or locally) strikes, it would severely affect the thinking in my next purchase. I almost certainly would still not buy an import or transplant (the new Sonata now is intriguing, though...but every Honda and Toyota is nap-inducing)...and I won't consider GM (most of their stuff is getting Toyota-like, especially Chevy...but the Regal and LaCrosse are interesting)...so I'm left with Chrysler. I think the 200 w/ the more powerful V6 is really something I could like, despite it's uncreative styling. It sucks that I would even consider an alternative product in the first place--previously, it was just an internal battle of "which Ford product will be my next car?" With a strike or at least difficulty caused by UAW membership in this voting process, that would no longer be true.

Edited October 14, 2011 by BrewfanGRB

[povertyknob]

The ONLY reason ford did not need a bailout is because they mortgaged everything before the collapse if the economy and had cash. Either luck or brilliance on Mulally's part. It's debatable.

I was answering a question from Deanh -not stating my own belief. Some folks in the UAW understand the situation. Others are willfully ignorant.