akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Perhaps domestically...but globally the story is very different and that's an important distinction. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Why? You know better than that. One worD: Ammortization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You know better than that. One worD: Ammortization. Certainly, but you'd be remiss to discuss ammortization and not discuss the total D4 platform volume. The only burden the MKT has to shoulder alone relates to cosmetics. Everything below the skin is shared across a much broader range of vehicles. Not to defend the MKT, as it's ugly as sin, but it's a pretty low risk investment at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Certainly, but you'd be remiss to discuss ammortization and not discuss the total D4 platform volume. The only burden the MKT has to shoulder alone relates to cosmetics. Everything below the skin is shared across a much broader range of vehicles. Not to defend the MKT, as it's ugly as sin, but it's a pretty low risk investment at this point. Hey, it's not like the R-Class is riding on its own platform either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Just slightly better, but not even remotely enough. Please discontinue, thanks! I agree. Only one thing will fix this vehicle. The word cancelled. Certainly, but you'd be remiss to discuss ammortization and not discuss the total D4 platform volume. The only burden the MKT has to shoulder alone relates to cosmetics. Everything below the skin is shared across a much broader range of vehicles. Not to defend the MKT, as it's ugly as sin, but it's a pretty low risk investment at this point. Maybe it doesn't cost a lot to build it, but when you are trying to rebuild a brand offering vehicles that are "ugly as sin" isn't doing much to change the perception of the Lincoln brand in customers minds. Cancel it and replace with an Aviator based on the Explorer. Edited November 17, 2011 by 2005Explorer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I agree. Only one thing will fix this vehicle. The word cancelled. Maybe it doesn't cost a lot to build it, but when you are trying to rebuild a brand offering vehicles that are "ugly as sin" isn't doing much to change the perception of the Lincoln brand in customers minds. Cancel it and replace with an Aviator based on the Explorer. You don't have to cancel it to add an Aviator, especially when you need something to serve the livery market. Wouldn't it be better to have the MKT be the livery vehicle and not the other new Lincolns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I agree. Only one thing will fix this vehicle. The word cancelled. Assuming it's profitable (otherwise it would have already been killed), why does it need to be killed now? What about livery service? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 You don't have to cancel it to add an Aviator, especially when you need something to serve the livery market. Wouldn't it be better to have the MKT be the livery vehicle and not the other new Lincolns? The Town Car and Navigator served the livery market just fine. The MKS and Navigator can do it now. Given the Flex's and MKT's sales (I don't care that they "share" D3 -- it's D3 of a unique length and width) it would seem foolish to continue it. And it's yet to be seen if the MKT will be any bit successful in the livery market anyway. Even livery operators don't want to buy ugly vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) I just asked in another post if Ford learned anything from the previous MKT design mistakes..... Obviously they did NOT..... It is slightly better than the last disaster, but I would not buy one.... Edited November 17, 2011 by sranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Perhaps domestically...but globally the story is very different and that's an important distinction. Oh please, Borg, how much of a global market is there for 7 passenger luxury CUVs? There's next to no market for these things in the US, which buys bigger cars than any other country on the planet. And with Ford's knowledge of the livery industry coupled with the D3's economies of scale, there's not a problem with profits here. Ford will do just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Oh please, Borg, how much of a global market is there for 7 passenger luxury CUVs? There's next to no market for these things in the US, which buys bigger cars than any other country on the planet. And with Ford's knowledge of the livery industry coupled with the D3's economies of scale, there's not a problem with profits here. Ford will do just fine. I predict the MKT will pick up sales volume with this re-fresh, as will the Flex. IMHO, the refining of the grille will make it much more acceptable to the country-club set. But, even if that doesn't happen, it's the other product in the pipe-line that is absolutely crucial for Lincoln, not MKT. The next MKS and MKX and the "C-size"-whatsit and maybe 4 years from now, the next MKZ are crucial. Then there's all the rumors about other vehicles (LWB Mustang derivative). If the MKT is unchanged in all that time, meh. The livery people will be happy. Old people will be happy. Ford will be happy. Borg won't care. So it goes. So, stop kvetching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The Town Car and Navigator served the livery market just fine. The MKS and Navigator can do it now. Given the Flex's and MKT's sales (I don't care that they "share" D3 -- it's D3 of a unique length and width) it would seem foolish to continue it. And it's yet to be seen if the MKT will be any bit successful in the livery market anyway. Even livery operators don't want to buy ugly vehicles. MKS? Livery? No way. Doesn't have nearly enough back seat or trunk space. And you don't want to saddle the new MKS with a livery tag like the old Town Car. There is nothing wrong with having the MKT for a few retail customers that want a luxury 7 passenger Crossover and using it for livery service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 MKS? Livery? No way. Doesn't have nearly enough back seat or trunk space. And you don't want to saddle the new MKS with a livery tag like the old Town Car. There is nothing wrong with having the MKT for a few retail customers that want a luxury 7 passenger Crossover and using it for livery service. If the next gen MKS doesn't have a larger trunk and more back seat room than the current one I would be both surprised and disappointed. And there's plenty wrong with having the MKT for very few retail customers and an unknown quantity of livery customers...because it's ugly as hell. Ugly vehicles do nothing for your lineup's image, no matter who they are intended for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 If the next gen MKS doesn't have a larger trunk and more back seat room than the current one I would be both surprised and disappointed. And there's plenty wrong with having the MKT for very few retail customers and an unknown quantity of livery customers...because it's ugly as hell. Ugly vehicles do nothing for your lineup's image, no matter who they are intended for. I can think of plenty of ugly Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc but that doesn't change their image. I understand you don't like it - I'm not crazy about it myself. But I don't think it hurts anything. The MKS will hurt the image more than the MKT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I can think of plenty of ugly Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc but that doesn't change their image. I understand you don't like it - I'm not crazy about it myself. But I don't think it hurts anything. The MKS will hurt the image more than the MKT. Eh. I guess it's all subjective. I really am not impressed with these refreshes at all though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 If the next gen MKS doesn't have a larger trunk and more back seat room than the current one I would be both surprised and disappointed. And there's plenty wrong with having the MKT for very few retail customers and an unknown quantity of livery customers...because it's ugly as hell. Ugly vehicles do nothing for your lineup's image, no matter who they are intended for. The MKS has a 18.7 cubic foot trunk already, the problem with the current MKS is the access to that space. It sounds as if that was addressed with the refresh, it apparently has a larger trunk opening. The current MKS has a backseat that is already comparable with the competition...why does it need to get larger? Compared with the 300C the MKS has more rear head room, 1.5'' less rear leg room, and less than an inch less hip room. The total interior volume is only .5 cu ft different. Also the 300C has 2.4 cu ft less trunk space... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The MKS has a 18.7 cubic foot trunk already, the problem with the current MKS is the access to that space. It sounds as if that was addressed with the refresh, it apparently has a larger trunk opening. The current MKS has a backseat that is already comparable with the competition...why does it need to get larger? Compared with the 300C the MKS has more rear head room, 1.5'' less rear leg room, and less than an inch less hip room. The total interior volume is only .5 cu ft different. Also the 300C has 2.4 cu ft less trunk space... I don't think the Chrysler 300 should really be the benchmark for a livery vehicle either. Look at the LWB options from BMW and Mercedes instead. That's the type of livery service Lincoln should be chasing, not the gussied up airport taxi and high school prom crowds. Edited November 17, 2011 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) You can see the colors at [url="http://www.lincoln.com] I like the new grille on the MKT but not on the MKS. I think the poor MKT is doomed. Edited November 17, 2011 by fordtech1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The MKS has a 18.7 cubic foot trunk already, the problem with the current MKS is the access to that space. It sounds as if that was addressed with the refresh, it apparently has a larger trunk opening. The current MKS has a backseat that is already comparable with the competition...why does it need to get larger? Compared with the 300C the MKS has more rear head room, 1.5'' less rear leg room, and less than an inch less hip room. The total interior volume is only .5 cu ft different. Also the 300C has 2.4 cu ft less trunk space... That was in relation to its suitability for livery service. The reason most chose Town Cars over Cadillacs was the enormous trunk. The MKS is tiny by comparison in both trunk and rear seat room. The MKT is much better suited for that type of duty with gobs of luggage space and a more spacious 2nd row with optional recliners, fridge, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 My opinion... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpatrick90 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 That was in relation to its suitability for livery service. The reason most chose Town Cars over Cadillacs was the enormous trunk. The MKS is tiny by comparison in both trunk and rear seat room. The MKT is much better suited for that type of duty with gobs of luggage space and a more spacious 2nd row with optional recliners, fridge, etc. Yeah I see that now...going back and forth between the MKT and MKS threads must have gotten disoriented. I agree completely that the MKT is much better suited for livery duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yeah I see that now...going back and forth between the MKT and MKS threads must have gotten disoriented. I agree completely that the MKT is much better suited for livery duties. It's Nick's fault. He's the one that brought up the MKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 (edited) Now we have some real-world photos of the MKT. http://www.leftlanenews.com/lincoln-mkt-2013.html Edited November 18, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Absolutely atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted November 18, 2011 Author Share Posted November 18, 2011 At least the Lincoln badge is in the right position and isn't too small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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