Avon Lake Medium Duty

[7Mary3]

Yes, the GAZon is developed from the LCD Maxus van. As far as problems, I have not heard of any. But then, I am not in a position to really know anything about Russian commercial vehicles! I thought the GAZon and GAZelle start in class 3, so I would think at least some versions would be considered light trucks.

[twintornados]

GAZon Next......strikingly similar look to a Transit cab.

[Biker16]

GAZon Next......strikingly similar look to a Transit cab.

 

 

That's interesting, ugly but interesting

[RichardJensen]

Do you see the visibility issues that a low-slope windshield creates for vehicles w/long snouts & high seating positions?

[BlackHorse]

Do you see the visibility issues that a low-slope windshield creates for vehicles w/long snouts & high seating positions?

 

 

 

 

Thus the advantage of driving a cab over design. I wonder if Ford has ever considered offering a cab over in their commercial truck offerings.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by BlackHorse

[94bronco]

I wonder how long they will keep the SD cab going in the Medium Duties since the SD should be dropping it in 17 for the F-150 cab.

Long past time they start offering the V10 in pickup trucks again also.

[RichardJensen]

I wonder how long they will keep the SD cab going in the Medium Duties since the SD should be dropping it in 17 for the F-150 cab.

Long past time they start offering the V10 in pickup trucks again also.

 

Not much longer I expect. They continue to stamp small volumes of past panels for collision repair purposes after sheetmetal's changed on production models, so it's not like they're *just* stamping cabs for the 650/750.

 

But, as I've speculated about elsewhere, the 650/750 & E-450 are, collectively, oddball vehicles with somewhat related purposes. My expectation is a long-term solution that involves a MD specific cab not dissimilar to Freightliner's and fiberglass noses that are unique to the frame/GVWR.

 

I couldn't begin to guess what the naming structure would be, but the consolidation of these odd-balls in Avon Lake, along with their obvious EOL nature is highly suggestive.

[jpd80]

I wonder how long they will keep the SD cab going in the Medium Duties since the SD should be dropping it in 17 for the F-150 cab.

Long past time they start offering the V10 in pickup trucks again also.

They really can't offer the V10 in 250 because of looming economy regs for Trucks in Class 2b (10% improvement)

Edited August 14, 2015 by jpd80

[Biker16]

Do you see the visibility issues that a low-slope windshield creates for vehicles w/long snouts & high seating positions?

 

 

 

its much better than the F-750 with the SD cab.

 

 

What it does it prove that it should be possible to use the T-series cab for a medium duty truck.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

 

 

its much better than the F-750 with the SD cab.

 

 

 

That's debatable. I don't think visibility is anything to write home about in either one.

 

And proving you can do something does not prove that you *should* do it.

 

There's almost certainly enough combined medium duty volume between the E450 and the 650/750 for Ford to justify the relatively small investment in custom tooling for that product.

 

And with volume in, oh, say, the 70k annual range doesn't this exactly fit the 'more niche vehicles' kick you've been on lately?

[bzcat]

Yes, the GAZon is developed from the LCD Maxus van. As far as problems, I have not heard of any. But then, I am not in a position to really know anything about Russian commercial vehicles! I thought the GAZon and GAZelle start in class 3, so I would think at least some versions would be considered light trucks.

 

GAZelle and GAZelle Next are classified as LCV by EU so they are class 1-3 - basically direct competitors of Transit, Sprinter etc.

 

GAZon and GAZon Next are similar to medium duty in the US so I guess class 4-6.

[Biker16]

That's debatable. I don't think visibility is anything to write home about in either one.

 

Not to belate the point the Visibility in F-series cab is mush less than in the T-series cab.

 

There's almost certainly enough combined medium duty volume between the E450 and the 650/750 for Ford to justify the relatively small investment in custom tooling for that product.

 

And with volume in, oh, say, the 70k annual range doesn't this exactly fit the 'more niche vehicles' kick you've been on lately?

70,000 in the US, but how far could it go in the ROW?

[RichardJensen]

 

 

Not to belate the point the Visibility in F-series cab is mush less than in the T-series cab.

 

 

70,000 in the US, but how far could it go in the ROW?

 

The disadvantages of F-Series visibility aren't in the cab, they're in the snout of the truck, a problem which is even more pronounced w/the MDs. E-Series visibility is superb--but you can't fit a modern MD diesel into that engine bay.

 

If Ford opted to unify its MD/HD cabs, I don't know? 100k? I really don't know how many conventional trucks/tractors Ford sells overseas. And I don't know that it's a cost savings for Ford to either ship stampings to their ROW MD/HD facilities, or ship stampings from there to the US.

Edited August 14, 2015 by RichardJensen

[Biker16]

The disadvantages of F-Series visibility aren't in the cab, they're in the snout of the truck, a problem which is even more pronounced w/the MDs. E-Series visibility is superb--but you can't fit a modern MD diesel into that engine bay.

 

other than the inablaity to see the hood on the transit the visbality is greatly improved over the E-series, especially to the corners and to the sides.

 

The visibility in the Transit and E-series are better BEACUSE of the upright seating position, with the longer Hood on the medium duty that higher seating position would help visibility. The design of the Transit's cab would force Ford to place it higher than the F-series because of its Uni-body roots.

 

BTW the Gazelle is BOF not uni-body like the transit

 

 

If Ford opted to unify its MD/HD cabs, I don't know? 100k? I really don't know how many conventional trucks/tractors Ford sells overseas. And I don't know that it's a cost savings for Ford to either ship stampings to their ROW MD/HD facilities, or ship stampings from there to the US.

 

Ford makes the Transit on 3 continents, It has deeper global supply base than the F-series.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

Here is the global medium duty leader.

There is a reason why its cab is configured the way it is.

 

It boggles my mind that someone who literally can't shut up about how Ford needs more "niche products" and how Ford can't do things "halfway" thinks that Ford should use a thoroughly inadequate cab for their MD range.

[7Mary3]

The hood on the 650/750 is part of the problem, but the big issue is the height of the windshield. If you sit in a Freightliner M2 (and this goes for the Navistar's as well), the seating position is more upright and the top of the dash is well below the driver's line of sight. An added benefit of the taller cab is that you can actually use an air-suspended seat without the chance of hitting your head on the roof if you hit a big bump!

 

That having been said, I think the SD cab will be adequate for the intended market of the new 650/750. It doesn't look like the kind of truck I would like to spend all day in, but for typical municipality and the like use it will probably be O.K..

 

I just hope Ford can keep the price low enough enough that potential buyers will look past it's shortcomings.

[RichardJensen]

That having been said, I think the SD cab will be adequate for the intended market of the new 650/750.

 

Right. But obviously it's a dead-end cab, with the SD moving to an aluminum cab either substantially similar to, or identical to the F150 cab.

 

Therefore, if you're going to replace a dead-end cab, wouldn't you go with something designed to work with that type of vehicle? Especially since you've got this other dead-end cab (E-450).

[Biker16]

Here is the global medium duty leader.

 

There is a reason why its cab is configured the way it is.

 

It boggles my mind that someone who literally can't shut up about how Ford needs more "niche products" and how Ford can't do things "halfway" thinks that Ford should use a thoroughly inadequate cab for their MD range.

 

we were being completely civil no personal attack until now and you go and fuck it up.

 

thanks dick.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

 

we were being completely civil no personal attack

 

Your sig is an ongoing personal attack.

 

As long as it's there, you get no presumption of fair play from me.

 

Especially when the subject at hand is one that is directly related to your out-of-context sig.

[jpd80]

So when it comes to MD application, does Ford use the complete SD cab and hood or is the stuff forward of the A pillar unique to MD?

 

Just some thoughts...

I can see how MD could have a choice of cabs, either share with SD or use Transit but the question is really

which works best and which suits buyers needs.... just me but i think the SD alloy cab may win out but,

it depends on whether that supply line becomes constrained across f150, SD and MD applications.

 

Surely, Ford would be aware of that and would be taking into consideration volume and logistics,

 

There's an outside chance that Transit's body stamping is less taxed, adding scales of economy

by grouping SD cabs with Transit and sending batch orders to Avon Lake...

Edited August 15, 2015 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

So when it comes to MD application, does Ford use the complete SD cab and hood or is the stuff forward of the A pillar unique to MD?

 

Just some thoughts...

I can see how MD could have a choice of cabs, either share with SD or use Transit

 

AFAIK, the stuff ahead of the cab is fiberglass furnished by an outside vendor.

 

And what makes the most sense is that Ford develop a custom cab for the MD & E-450 replacement, as both the Transit & SD cabs are very ill-suited for MD use

[7Mary3]

I have been told that the SD cab on the 650/750 has been modified to a certain extent, and one of those modifications is composite doors. It sounds plausible, a medium duty truck does not have to meet side impact standards and a composite door would be cheaper to produce. It certainly wouldn't need a expensive stamping dies. Maybe Ford has optimized the 650/750 SD cab for economical low volume production

[twintornados]

If you look back through the years, Ford has had several cabs for different types of Medium Duty trucks. E-Series cab and current gen SD cab work along those lines...Now, what Ford should do is look across the "empire" and see what is in the portfolio to continue the "One Ford" mantra as created by Mr Mulally....

[RichardJensen]

I don't know that Ford builds any conventional cab tractors elsewhere. The new Ford Cargo is a joint Ford/Otosan + Ford Brazil design.

[jpd80]

1. Would adding the Cargo to Avon Lake be a help or hindrance to Ford North America?

 

2. Understanding that it's a Cab Over design, would a Conventional Cab or stumpy snout variant be a better choice?

 

3. Should Ford be looking at Calss 8 or just stick with the MDs for now?