sullynd Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Ford has done its product research, they know what buyers want Would you say they did the same for the Focus? Do you think it's been selling to Ford's expectations in North America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Would you say they did the same for the Focus? Do you think it's been selling to Ford's expectations in North America? Expectations in terms of: - sales? As of November 161,436 versus 159,679 12 months ago. - Average transaction prices? Sales conference saying increases are happening across most products - profitability? Ford now has Focus on one global platform, scales of economy are huge See there's a lot more to "expectations" than just sales.....I'm sure Ford has been blown away by the response to it's Uitlities and equally understanding that other vehicles may be more attractive to consumers than the new Focus with higher ATPs. For the past Five years, ford has been on a path of building less vehicles but making more profit, why is that still such a head spin for people? Edited December 27, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) its a response to Probowlers remark...".Bring me a real American Ford Escape and then we can talk turkey"...................what is "Real American?"..... Well to me "Real American" would be the design language that came through during the "Blue White and Bold" campaign. Some examples of that would be the current Fusion, Edge, F-Series, Escape, Expedition, Mustang, etc. The new Fiesta, Focus, Escape, and next Fusion are European design language. Other then the design language I wouldn't say one is more American then the other. Style mainly is what makes the difference. It also seems like some of the interior controls, etc. seem a little quirky as well and more "European" in feel and operation compared to the U.S. designed Fords. There really are two different flavors of Fords right now and you can tell the difference. Only time will tell what most Americans end up preferring. Edited December 27, 2011 by 2005Explorer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Well to me "Real American" would be the design language that came through during the "Blue White and Bold" campaign. Some examples of that would be the current Fusion, Edge, F-Series, Escape, Expedition, Mustang, etc. The new Fiesta, Focus, Escape, and next Fusion are European design language. Other then the design language I wouldn't say one is more American then the other. Style mainly is what makes the difference. It also seems like some of the interior controls, etc. seem a little quirky as well and more "European" in feel and operation compared to the U.S. designed Fords. There really are two different flavors of Fords right now and you can tell the difference. Only time will tell what most Americans end up preferring. There's still a need for regional design language especially in US based products, I don't think Ford is looking to drop that but is twwell underway with global platforms, so in that respect Escape and Focus become globals and American have to decide whether that want that styling and type of vehicle. IMO, make them solid, dependable, well appointed vehicles and buyers will line up. Edited December 27, 2011 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Got to say I saw a video of the new Escape in a motion and it looked really good... Still unsure of the rear styling, but I approve of everything from the C-Pillar forward. Looks like a great little utility that can double as both DD and support an active lifestyle. Guess next step will be to go to see it in person (think Denver show is April). Wife and I went last year and liked the C-Max (of course the 3-row version that was pulled back), but were uncommitted due to the 2WD (just had 10in of snow right before Christmas and with the Mountaineer in the shop travel was very difficult). I will soon be back on the market now that my Ranger has lived out its usefulness (is for sale), and the Volvo is running its course (figure no more than 2 years). I would love an EB4 T6 Ranger SuperCrew, but that isn't going to happen... Even if the T6 was available I'm not completely committed to a pickup. The Escape with this update has gone from no-chance to being of serious consideration (along side the Edge). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Well to me "Real American" would be the design language that came through during the "Blue White and Bold" campaign. Some examples of that would be the current Fusion, Edge, F-Series, Escape, Expedition, Mustang, etc. The new Fiesta, Focus, Escape, and next Fusion are European design language. Other then the design language I wouldn't say one is more American then the other. Style mainly is what makes the difference. It also seems like some of the interior controls, etc. seem a little quirky as well and more "European" in feel and operation compared to the U.S. designed Fords. There really are two different flavors of Fords right now and you can tell the difference. Only time will tell what most Americans end up preferring. Outside of the interior changes (which I agree with you...but then again the stuff that Ford NA was doing from 2000 till 2010 wasn't anything to write home about either interior wise)...the new exterior design language isn't really European....Ford stated a couple years ago that they needed to merge the two design languages because of "One Ford" and the end result was the Kinetic styling first seen on the Fiesta then the 2012 Focus and then the 2013 Fusion and to a lesser degree the new grill on the 2013 Taurus. The only thing that makes it European is that it came on products developed/sold in Europe first. Outside of the F-150 and Mustang (Maybe not the Mustang since it seems all the rumors are that they are going Global with that also) I'd expect all Ford Products to have a world-wide look to them...so any current product that looks "American" is going to disappear in a few years. Change is good...even if you don't like it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Outside of the interior changes (which I agree with you...but then again the stuff that Ford NA was doing from 2000 till 2010 wasn't anything to write home about either interior wise)...the new exterior design language isn't really European....Ford stated a couple years ago that they needed to merge the two design languages because of "One Ford" and the end result was the Kinetic styling first seen on the Fiesta then the 2012 Focus and then the 2013 Fusion and to a lesser degree the new grill on the 2013 Taurus. The only thing that makes it European is that it came on products developed/sold in Europe first. Outside of the F-150 and Mustang (Maybe not the Mustang since it seems all the rumors are that they are going Global with that also) I'd expect all Ford Products to have a world-wide look to them...so any current product that looks "American" is going to disappear in a few years. Change is good...even if you don't like it.... The F-150, Mustang, Taurus, Edge, Explorer and Lincoln are not world cars and not likely to become so. Cars like the Fiesta, Focus, Escape, and Fusion were designed in Europe with some oversight from the concerning regions...but these are products with less NA input than the cars mentioned earlier. And incidentally, the NA vehicles are premium products, therefore their differentiation makes some sense. Generally I don't shop among the vehicles Ford is developing globally but I now wait for the next-gen Edge to surface to see if there really is a line in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The F-150, Mustang, Taurus, Edge, Explorer and Lincoln are not world cars and not likely to become so. IMHO, Lincoln will be international in 4-5 years. Maybe the next MKX, the MKZ after its MCE, maybe the MKCUV? As Ford recovers, the brand opportunity is too good to pass up. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 IMHO, Lincoln will be international in 4-5 years. Maybe the next MKX, the MKZ after its MCE, maybe the MKCUV? As Ford recovers, the brand opportunity is too good to pass up. Time will tell. Lincoln, as it's being developed now, is domestic only. Lincoln resembles Ford NA before "One Ford", developed in Dearborn for US customers only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 The F-150, Mustang, Taurus, Edge, Explorer and Lincoln are not world cars and not likely to become so. The Edge, Taurus and Mustang are very likely to become World Cars...the Taurus will become a extended size Fusion/Mondeo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Lincoln, as it's being developed now, is domestic only. Lincoln resembles Ford NA before "One Ford", developed in Dearborn for US customers only. You don't know how Lincoln is currently being developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probeGT Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 You don't know how Lincoln is currently being developed. Possibly true, but is the name "Lincoln" really suited to a world-wide brand? I don't know the answer, just asking the question. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Would you say they did the same for the Focus? Do you think it's been selling to Ford's expectations in North America? absolutely, supply has been the biggest hurdle, Ford is adamant not to over-produce and thus I think we are up to 1/2 a days supply.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Well to me "Real American" would be the design language that came through during the "Blue White and Bold" campaign. Some examples of that would be the current Fusion, Edge, F-Series, Escape, Expedition, Mustang, etc. The new Fiesta, Focus, Escape, and next Fusion are European design language. Other then the design language I wouldn't say one is more American then the other. Style mainly is what makes the difference. It also seems like some of the interior controls, etc. seem a little quirky as well and more "European" in feel and operation compared to the U.S. designed Fords. There really are two different flavors of Fords right now and you can tell the difference. Only time will tell what most Americans end up preferring. and out of those mentioned I only consider the Edge a true stylistic sucess, and I actually prefer the origional. Mustang gets a hall pass, Fusion is handsome yes, but bordering on dated now, F-series...really?....only one lights me up is the FX series, the rest are Chrome-zilla, Escape right now could be called Retro if anything......all ford is doing is getting with the times, and their books are reflecting that...so why wouldnt they continue down that path?.... Edited December 27, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) its a response to Probowlers remark...".Bring me a real American Ford Escape and then we can talk turkey"...................what is "Real American?"..... It's pretty obvious he was talking about design language. and out of those mentioned I only consider the Edge a true stylistic sucess, and I actually prefer the origional. Mustang gets a hall pass, Fusion is handsome yes, but bordring on dated now, F-series...really?....only one lights me up is the FX series, the rest are Chrome-zilla, Escape right now could be called Retro if anything......all ford is doing is getting with the times, and their books are reflecting that...so why wouldnt they continue down that path?.... So are you asserting that because of European design language, Ford is doing well? Edited December 27, 2011 by Boss444 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 You've got define "overseas" better... There are areas of the wolrd other than Europe. And if you mean "not avaiable in Europe" than say so directly. One Ford cleans this confusion up, but right now ther is a mixure. Middle East gets cars from NA directly and as everything available here is available there. Latin America and Asia have a complete mixure of locally produced European products and NA products that somtimes doesn't make sense. For example the Fusion is available in Brazil not the Mondeo, while the Mondeo and S-Max are available in Argentina. The F-Series SuperDuty is built in Venezula and is available in most Latin American countries (and Australia until recently). The Explorer is available in Korea, while the Edge is available in China, and the Escape, not the Kuga, is the dominant small SUV name plate. And since the Fusion/Edge and Mondeo/S-Max platforms are being consolidated all four are going to be world vehicles in order to consolidate production/distribution. I have less confidence in how the Mustang or D3 (Taurus and Explorer) are going to turn out. Ford currently only sells a D-car in NA (Taurus) and Austrailia (Falcon). While a D-car might work in China there is serious doubts in Europe. This is where the One Ford stategy starts getting difficult.... Consolidate to one platform or two... RWD or FWD/AWD... Flexability to add a "cheep" sportscoupe (Mustang) or keep it on a seperate platform... What is best for nominal market (Ford) and what is best for the premium market (Lincoln). And that brings up will Lincoln go global... I think there is some strong potential in terms of China and if successful there is could spread from the top products down thru the existing Ford dealer networks. But China will be first and must be successful if Lincoln goes beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) It's pretty obvious he was talking about design language. So are you asserting that because of European design language, Ford is doing well? yep, ( barring trucks )and I invite anyone here to defy that logic....#1 on buyers list is how the vehicle looks....and the only way that gets circumvented is by the "dont give a shit crowd"...the must have massive rebates/ discount crowd, the I am loyal to one brand crowd or the gotta have a bogus million mile warranty crowd.....the extreme factions as i refer to them Edited December 27, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 yep, ( barring trucks )and I invite anyone here to defy that logic.... I was going to mention the increased quality, the increased mileage, the great reliability, and the fancy features...but I chose not to....it seemed a bit futile after that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I was going to mention the increased quality, the increased mileage, the great reliability, and the fancy features...but I chose not to....it seemed a bit futile after that statement. if the car looks like crap all the other parameters get thrown out the window.....there are millions sold by other manufacturers with worse mileage, worse reliability and similar features and they somehow STILL sell...VW springs to mind.....( but hey, ballsy comment no?....lol ) Edited December 28, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss444 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 if the car looks like crap all the other parameters get thrown out the window.....there are millions sold by other manufacturers with worse mileage, worse reliability and similar features and they somehow STILL sell...VW springs to mind.....( but hey, ballsy comment no?....lol ) I agree...the Lincolns with the split-wing baleen grills (past and present sadly) come to mind. But the current Escape does not look like crap. The Edge does not look like crap. And both are up for the year with the Escape being up massively. I disagree that Ford is doing well because of Euro design...if anything....the Fiesta is doing good as it's finally getting noticed (this year) but it was tweaked for N/A. But the Focus? It's stumbling. So maybe you are onto something. Despite the Focus having the goods, because it looks horrible, it's not selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwford Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 absolutely, supply has been the biggest hurdle, Ford is adamant not to over-produce and thus I think we are up to 1/2 a days supply.......... There is a $1000 rebate on the 2012 Focus where I live.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 There is a $1000 rebate on the 2012 Focus where I live.. correct me if im wrong.....thats only for cash buyer correct?....and not too many pay cash for vehicles....compare that to Chevys 72 months @0 % WITH $500 cash on their pickups...whos more desperate?........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I agree...the Lincolns with the split-wing baleen grills (past and present sadly) come to mind. But the current Escape does not look like crap. The Edge does not look like crap. And both are up for the year with the Escape being up massively. I disagree that Ford is doing well because of Euro design...if anything....the Fiesta is doing good as it's finally getting noticed (this year) but it was tweaked for N/A. But the Focus? It's stumbling. So maybe you are onto something. Despite the Focus having the goods, because it looks horrible, it's not selling. easy to counter there, Edge has GREAT lease programs right now and we cant keep our hands on them, and the Escape isnt ugly, dated yes ,but ITS rebates, lease and financing programs are outright crazy good right now....and thats a significant reason it is doing so well right now...if not, the MAIN reason. And that will go away a tad when the new model hits....whicg is Fords MO right now. Focus is selling fine, our issue is we cant get em....ANNOYING. If dealers dont have any selection iof course numbers will be down... Edited December 28, 2011 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 correct me if im wrong.....thats only for cash buyer correct?....and not too many pay cash for vehicles....compare that to Chevys 72 months @0 % WITH $500 cash on their pickups...whos more desperate?........ Cash or finance - I don't think it matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 There is a $1000 rebate on the 2012 Focus where I live.. Local dealer has 28 to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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