EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 akirby is correct - weight of components along with power consumption and heat dissipation are important considerations when designing a high-end audio system for electrified vehicles. To cite one example, Harman International worked with Toyota to develop a new premium system for the 2012 Prius, called JBL GreenEdge, with emphasis on exactly these parameters. It is still strange that this wasn't an issue on the current Fusion. My guess is that they think that Hybrid-owners are these eco-guys that only care about getting from A to B with as little gas as possible - but I believe these times are over. It is simply a step back from the previous generation where you can basically get all the (technological) options on the Hybrid as well. If I would be a current Fusion Hybrid owner, I would be very disappointed to lose this Audio-System... And if the CAFE weight classes pose a problem, why did they elect to offer bigger wheels as an option? Shouldn't their additional weight be more than the weight of the sound-system? I can always change wheels without a problem - but changing a sound-system on such a car is everything but easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 It is still strange that this wasn't an issue on the current Fusion. My guess is that they think that Hybrid-owners are these eco-guys that only care about getting from A to B with as little gas as possible - but I believe these times are over. It is simply a step back from the previous generation where you can basically get all the (technological) options on the Hybrid as well. If I would be a current Fusion Hybrid owner, I would be very disappointed to lose this Audio-System... And if the CAFE weight classes pose a problem, why did they elect to offer bigger wheels as an option? Shouldn't their additional weight be more than the weight of the sound-system? I can always change wheels without a problem - but changing a sound-system on such a car is everything but easy. Do you actually read what other people post? In the case of the 2013 FFH, it was CLEARLY a marketing decision to base the Hybrid on the SE not the Titanium therefore the Sony radio is not available since it's only available on the Titanium. So this is really about not offering the Sony radio on the SE and isn't specific to the hybrid. The 2013 Fusion also doesn't offer a V6 option. But it does offer MyFordTouch on SE models which wasn't available at all on the 2012s. Things change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timf Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 My only hope is that Ford is keeping it simple for the first year of their next generation hybrids (2013 Fusion and C-Max) and that they will add Titanium models for both in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Do you actually read what other people post? In the case of the 2013 FFH, it was CLEARLY a marketing decision to base the Hybrid on the SE not the Titanium therefore the Sony radio is not available since it's only available on the Titanium. So this is really about not offering the Sony radio on the SE and isn't specific to the hybrid. The 2013 Fusion also doesn't offer a V6 option. But it does offer MyFordTouch on SE models which wasn't available at all on the 2012s. Things change. Of course I read what others post - but you obviously didn't understand what I posted. IMO, it is a BAD MARKETING DECISION from Ford to not make the Audio-System available on the Hybrid - or in other words (so that you are able to understand my post correctly), that Ford is limiting the Hybrid-Model to the SE-Package. Do you honestly think people care WHY this is the case? Potential buyers don't care if it's called an "SE-Model" or whatever - Ford could even call it "James Bond Edition" - the CONTENT OF FEATURES is what counts and if a significant option simply disappears on a new car that was available before, this is NOT positive - no matter how Ford is calling their Model. Potential customers are looking for more and improved options - and if possible, as much standard features as possible. I'm sure that a Titanium-Based Hybrid would easily outsell an SE-Based Model. We all know that the Hybrid is quite expensive - and that's why the availability of specific features matter. This is not an entry-Model Fusion and the fact that the SE-Hybrid is already significantly more expensive than the gas SE-Model poses a potential problem. The higher the price-tag, the pickier the customers get. A fully loaded SE Hybrid is about $37K - and comes with a 4-speaker system. I think that says it all. The fully loaded Titanium AWD is only about $1,700 more. Ford is probably going to offer incentives on the Titanium at one point, making up for that difference. Based on my experience, that won't happen on the Hybrid any time soon. So for the same amount of money, You can get an AWD vehicle with much more power, 19"-wheels instead of 18" and a sound-system with 8 additional speakers. The exterior with chromed exhaust pipes is much more attractive, too. The "competition" between these two models gets even worse for the Hybrid if you are looking at a lease. Leasing is probably not going to be supported by Ford on the Hybrid - but it will be on the Titanium. The 2013 Hybrid is going to have an improved MPG-number over the 2012 - but the same applies to the Titanium. So in 2012, customers could chose between (almost) equally equipped models - the one was a Hybrid, the other one gas. For 2013, Ford decided to strip down the Hybrid WITHOUT reflecting that in the price which makes it less attractive to some potential buyers - including me. Under these circumstances, leasing the Titanium is a no-brainer. And I can assure you that people will be asking for a better sound system on a Hybrid. This is a must on a car at this price-level. Just because Ford elected to base the Hybrid on the SE-Model doesn't mean that potential buyers are going to accept the lack of major features on a $35K-vehicle - and THAT'S what I'm claiming since my first post in this thread - whether you want to understand it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I understand what you're saying and I can see why that's an issue for YOU. But Ford puts a lot of thought and effort into trim levels so they must have a good reason as to why the Hybrid is a SE and not a Titanium. Forgive me if I assume that Ford's marketing people are smarter than you (or me) when it comes to how to market their vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I understand what you're saying and I can see why that's an issue for YOU. But Ford puts a lot of thought and effort into trim levels so they must have a good reason as to why the Hybrid is a SE and not a Titanium. Forgive me if I assume that Ford's marketing people are smarter than you (or me) when it comes to how to market their vehicles. Oh, many car-manufacturers thought they made a smart move in the past that turned out to be bad. I feel sorry for the guys on Ford's dealer-lots, trying to sell these cars. First, they have to explain returning Hybrid-owners that the price of a fully loaded vehicle between 2012 and 2013 went up by more than $4,000(!!!) - BTW, that's more than 12%(!!!) and then, they have to tell them that they have to say goodbye to their 12-speaker system and "enjoy" their new 4-speaker system as a reward. A smart move indeed... I'm sure it's only a matter of time until Ford has to react and make that feature available at some point in time. The market in this segment is very competitive and when you're asked to cough out an additional $4K, you will certainly take a close look on what you will be getting in return. The increased MPG-numbers won't be making up for that - that's for sure.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) I agree this is an odd omission on the Hybrid variant, especially with the Sony being offered in the current Fusion Hybrid. New comers to the brand won't notice, but current owners who prioritize their audio choice surely will. Also seems odd with Ford leading in the tech field ( I would consider up market audio system part of the tech field) that they are not prioritizing premium audio systems in the new Fusion line up. It is a near premium level vehicle or at least Ford seems to be aiming for that characterization with the new Fusion. Unless the option pak with the MFT and extra speakers is worthy sound upgrade, then maybe its not a problem. Even the poor wee Fiesta is still stuck with a very average audio system, which strikes me as really odd, being a young persons car and all. Edited June 29, 2012 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I agree this is an odd omission on the Hybrid variant, especially with the Sony being offered in the current Fusion Hybrid. New comers to the brand won't notice, but current owners who prioritize their audio choice surely will. Also seems odd with Ford leading in the tech field ( I would consider up market audio system part of the tech field) that they are not prioritizing premium audio systems in the new Fusion line up. It is a near premium level vehicle or at least Ford seems to be aiming for that characterization with the new Fusion. Even the poor wee Fiesta is still stuck with a very average audio system, which strikes me as really odd, being a young persons car and all. Yeah, I guess it won't be "JUST ME" who is going to have an issue with that. A 4-speaker system on a vehicle exceeding $35K is simply not acceptable. Not in 2012 and not even on a Ford. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The order guide has the SE with 6 speakers with the standard audio, but no mention in the tech pak if more speakers are added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 A - the SE has 6 speakers, not 4. I don't know if MFT adds more power or more speakers but I think it might. B - The base price of the 2013 FFH appears to be $28K, the same as the current FFH. I'm disappointed I can't get Intelligent Access push button start with the 1.6L engine but you don't see me ranting and raving and declaring it a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timf Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Another strange thing I noticed is if you go to the dedicated FFH forum, the gallery of interior photos on the main page clearly shows a Sony radio. I'm not sure if this was an option Ford considered offering at one point and later dropped, or if the order guide doesn't tell the full story of what is included or available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Another strange thing I noticed is if you go to the dedicated FFH forum, the gallery of interior photos on the main page clearly shows a Sony radio. I'm not sure if this was an option Ford considered offering at one point and later dropped, or if the order guide doesn't tell the full story of what is included or available. The order guide could be wrong but those are pre-production prototype photos and they frequently get built with non-production configurations. Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see the Sony radio as an option on the hybrid but honestly it's not the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 A - the SE has 6 speakers, not 4. I don't know if MFT adds more power or more speakers but I think it might. B - The base price of the 2013 FFH appears to be $28K, the same as the current FFH. I'm disappointed I can't get Intelligent Access push button start with the 1.6L engine but you don't see me ranting and raving and declaring it a failure. A-Even 6 speakers are 6 less than before. B-According to the online configurator, a fully loaded Hybrid (2013) will be $4K more than the current one (2013: $37K, 2012: $33K). Where am I "ranting"? I'm sure the Fusion will be a success - but it certainly leaves room for improvement. I'm curious why you seem to take this personally. Are you a CEO at Ford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The order guide could be wrong but those are pre-production prototype photos and they frequently get built with non-production configurations. Don't get me wrong - I'd like to see the Sony radio as an option on the hybrid but honestly it's not the end of the world. I asked this question on Ford Fusion Facebook and this is the answer from Ford Samantha Hoyt Hi Carl, the build site you are seeing is for research purposes only but the info is correct. The full site will go live late July. Sony is only available on the Titanium series for the 2013 Fusion.6 hours ago · Like Natasha At Ford Hey Carl! As Samantha advised, Sony audio will only be available on the Titanium model; additional details will be released closer to launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 B-According to the online configurator, a fully loaded Hybrid (2013) will be $4K more than the current one (2013: $37K, 2012: $33K). Obvioulsy you didn't bother to see what extra features you get for that extra $4K..... MyFordTouch BLIS Auto High Beams Lane Departure warning Auto wipers Active Park Assist Adaptive Cruise Push button start/Intelligent Access (not listed but confirmed by Ford) So you get all that for the extra $4K. Or you can skip all that and get virtually the same vehicle as today for the same price, minus the Sony radio option. Where am I "ranting"? I'm sure the Fusion will be a success - but it certainly leaves room for improvement. Posts 129, 131, 133 I'm curious why you seem to take this personally. Are you a CEO at Ford? ME taking it personally? Ha ha. You're the one ranting and raving about the lack of a Sony radio and how it's a huge mistake and it will kill sales. I'm just trying to look at it rationally and explain it to folks like you who don't seem to understand how decisions like that get made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I agree this is an odd omission on the Hybrid variant, especially with the Sony being offered in the current Fusion Hybrid. THIS is the worst part. There's really no reason for it... at least not to me. What I think should happen in the future, at least with mainstream car brands, is that the hybrid become an engine option instead of a trim line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Obvioulsy you didn't bother to see what extra features you get for that extra $4K..... MyFordTouch BLIS Auto High Beams Lane Departure warning Auto wipers Active Park Assist Adaptive Cruise Push button start/Intelligent Access (not listed but confirmed by Ford) So you get all that for the extra $4K. Or you can skip all that and get virtually the same vehicle as today for the same price, minus the Sony radio option. Offering all these options BUT skipping the Sony-System makes even less sense - or do you believe lane departure warning or auto-high beams are going to make up for it? And FYI, BLIS and rain-sensing wipers are already available AND included on the $33K 2012 Hybrid. Posts 129, 131, 133 If you consider that "ranting", you do not know we too well... ME taking it personally? Ha ha. You're the one ranting and raving about the lack of a Sony radio and how it's a huge mistake and it will kill sales. I'm just trying to look at it rationally and explain it to folks like you who don't seem to understand how decisions like that get made. Since I raised my concern, two other members chimed in who aren't happy about this as well. Ever thought about the tiny possibility that the majority could agree with what I'm posting? I told you before that not every decision made by high ranked individuals are good decisions. After all, "folks like me" are supposed to buy this car, right? Edited June 29, 2012 by EcoBoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm not going to keep arguing. I explained why it's that way and some possible reasons. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want the Sony radio with the FFH and I also know Ford knows this. I trust that they have good reasons even though some may be disappointed. Obviously you don't so I guess we'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EcoBoost Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up as available option sooner or later - but I said that before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Was fiddling with the configurator today, and noticed there's a Titanium Spoiler Delete option(YAY!). Was this always there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmy311 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Although this isn't a issue/deal breaker for me, I don't understand why to get AWD you have to spend $32,000 to get the titanium model. They are losing potential customers doing this. Here in NEPA, there are Ford dealerships planted on both sides of a Subaru dealership in a small area of space. I can guarantee that people are picking Legacy's (and I see boat loads of them here) for $22,000 and saving the $10,000. There are people out there that don't want all the techy stuff. They should make AWD available on at LEAST the 2.0 SE model. It makes no sense to me??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Although this isn't a issue/deal breaker for me, I don't understand why to get AWD you have to spend $32,000 to get the titanium model. They are losing potential customers doing this. Here in NEPA, there are Ford dealerships planted on both sides of a Subaru dealership in a small area of space. I can guarantee that people are picking Legacy's (and I see boat loads of them here) for $22,000 and saving the $10,000. There are people out there that don't want all the techy stuff. They should make AWD available on at LEAST the 2.0 SE model. It makes no sense to me??? elmy311, I think the lack of AWD on non highline Ford Fusion is a continuation of the marketing strategy the company embodied since the previous refresh in MY 2010. Midgrade SE models with AWD were discontinued after the 2009. Among AWD sedans in the U.S. market from mass market brands, the Subaru Legacy is arguably the best choice at any price point. Legacy's MY 2013 refresh, which includes the new FB series flat 4 engine and a revised CVT, is very nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allsops Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'm surprised to read that you need the Titanium to get AWD in the US, as up here in Canada, you can get AWD and the 2.0 on the SE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotdog14 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I believe the standard "build your own" configurator is up with some different options and packages. I am glad I can finally see the rims that are offered. I am really torn between a 33k Titanium and a 28k SE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarhead727 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I ordered a titanium awd with the 19" wheels. I can't wait till they start building these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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