A Message to Ford/Ford of Australia...

[ZanatWork]

...put simply: don't desert rear drive.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/16/subaru-brz-sells-out-in-australia-in-three-hours-online/

 

Now, add this to the fact that the Mustang can outsell Lincoln in its entirety on a month-to-month basis...

 

...and I really hope the "powers what is" in Dearborn and Melbourne notice that there's more to vehicles than efficient packaging.

 

Oh...and maybe, just maybe, if Lincoln could put out a credible driver's car, they wouldn't be wondering what the real luxury makes have and they don't. Just sayin'.

[BORG]

Wait, you mean Ford sells more cars than Lincoln? How can this be? Clearly Lincoln sucks!

[jpd80]

...put simply: don't desert rear drive.

 

http://www.autoblog....e-hours-online/

 

Now, add this to the fact that the Mustang can outsell Lincoln in its entirety on a month-to-month basis...

 

...and I really hope the "powers what is" in Dearborn and Melbourne notice that there's more to vehicles than efficient packaging.

 

Oh...and maybe, just maybe, if Lincoln could put out a credible driver's car, they wouldn't be wondering what the real luxury makes have and they don't. Just sayin'.

It's not a case of FoA don't deserve RWD, the market is changing rapidly for FoA

and they no longer have the income stream to justify producing cars to fleets.

that's whay 440 people are losing their jobs, that's right 30% of the work force.

Graziano was sent to close down FoA and he's doing a damned fine job.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

Toyota sells more Camrys than all of Lexus combined too. Well hell, better shutter that brand too.

 

And I have the feeling that the "Mustang alone outselling Lincoln" argument isn't going to be true for much longer. I'm guessing 2013 MKZ at least doubles its sales. That alone will bring the brand within a hair or two of the Mustang. And reviews of the new MKS have lauded its driving dynamics, so while a full makeover would probably help even more, it can't be said that it's not a driver's car already.

[RichardJensen]

'Cuz, you know, Cadillac's RWD strategy has worked out *real well" for them.

[jpd80]

'Cuz, you know, Cadillac's RWD strategy has worked out *real well" for them.

Here's the deal, there's a down balance coming around September, they are going from 209/day to 148/day which puts the plant back to 5-day week

between now and November, it is hoped that 440 odd people from Geelong engine and Broadmeadows Assemblywill take redundancy packages

 

Strange thing was that falcon and Territory both experienced up ticks last month, maybe Ford pushed the button too quick.

word is that the LP Gas version of Falcon is finally bringing in fleet demand, Ecoboost is nowhere as Ford builds 4/day

and has given most to it s own staff, there's none to speak of with dealers.

 

Most Territoys sold are V6 diesels which start at $43,000 and go up to 60,000 for top of the rnage which is all cream.

Falcon numbers are skinny because fleets stopped buying because ther was a gap in LP Gas vehicle production due

to delays in the new Injected LP gas engine arriving and as we know the timing of fleet purchases is critical, most of

them occurring in the second half of the year duel ot our Tax year ending June 30. It's looking better at the moment

but until Ford see how July and August pan out they won't change, the plant is on 3-4 day week but fingers crossed

a lift due to lower fuel prices might be that releiving breeze FoA has been praying for...

 

Sorry to ramble but I feel some explanation is needed as most think you need huge numbers to make plants viable,

this is true to a point but don't forget our Aussie prices are about 25-30% more than what you see in Nth America.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

Click here: Ford Australia cuts one in seven jobs | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

[bzcat]

I have made an argument here before that was not so popular but one that I feel is bearing out almost exactly as I called it. Ford Australia made a strategic error by holding on to its RWD platform in order to protect the Falcon at all cost. That strategic error is going to eventually end in Ford discontinuing car production in Australia. You can trace the fortune of Ford and Toyota in Australia in diverging paths back to that fateful decision back in the mid 90s by Ford Australia to abandon the compact FWD car to focus on large cars only. At that time, Ford Laser was the top selling compact car in Australia but Ford decided that it would consolidate production in Geelong and decided to import the new Laser from Japan. Meanwhile, Toyota Australia invested in local production of Corolla and quickly took over the sales lead while Ford rolled the dice on an expansion of large cars. Part of this was misguided Govt policy that forced car makers to meet minimum quotas for each model but while Toyota was proactive in seeking a partner in Holden for its Corolla, Ford didn't even try to find a partner for its Laser. They just threw up their hands and said it was not worth it.

 

Now, I'm not saying Ford didn't do a good job with Falcon and Territory... quite the opposite actually. The latest Falcon and Territory are quite well engineered (and developed at bargain prices too). All I'm saying is that had Ford tried a little harder to figure out how to adopt the Focus for local assembly after the Mazda based Laser petered out, things might have turned out differently. Ford Taiwan was faced with similar existential question on high labor costs and limited domestic market and they decided to go another way and figured out how to profitably make the Escape locally and become a regional export hub for that car. The main difference between Ford Taiwan and Ford Australia is emotional attachement... The RWD sedan and the Falcon especially, is such an iconic Australian car that local managers couldn't imagine Ford without it. Well, now the bills are coming due on the emotional decision. Big sedans are not selling, there is no export market, and Geelong has lost its chance to bid for regional manufacturing center for Focus, Mondeo, Fiesta, Escape/Kuga, and Ranger. But hey, no one can make the Falcon ute...

Edited July 17, 2012 by bzcat

[jpd80]

FoA made an error in was assuming that Focus production would mainly consist of base models, the past two model launches has

in fact, shown the complete opposite with mid and high series Focus making up the bulk of sales. Had FoA maintained its course on

local Focus production, local production could have continued with phasing out of Falcon and Territory and replacing them with new

global vehicles production like Kuga, Mondeo and S-Max/Edge. So sad as i see it as a huge opportunity missed.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jpd80

[ZanatWork]

Actually, in terms of making vehicles that actually get to compete with the "bigs", creating vehicles that have garnered some actual excitement, and taking some actual risks in the name of drivers' cars...

 

 

...and this, despite some of the worst styling imaginable...

 

 

...Caddy has bitch-slapped Lincoln, taken its lunch money, and YouTubed itself rolling off Lincoln's mom in the morning on the way to school. Lincoln remains guilty of everything that Mercury was supposedly killed for, and even the next MKZ is arguably a re-styled-and-contented Fusion. We've heard for untold years that Ford gets the "need for differentiation"...but is very reluctant to act on that beneath the sheetmetal. Hell, it sounds like the biggest difference in the MKZ and Fusion drivetrains will come as a result of killing the V6 option in the Fusion, not because Lincoln gets anything new/special.

 

I've seen on Facebook, I've seen on Autoblog, and I've seen on Ford discussions everywhere that people ask for REAR DRIVE overwhelmingly. They want a real Town Car again, and an exciting personal coupe is the second most consistent request I see on all of those sites.

 

What's so weak above is that the reply of "Ford outsells Lincoln" is drooling idiocy at best. No, I mentioned that a RWD NICHE VEHICLE was outselling the whole division. Similarly buck-toothed and possibly inbred was the person comparing the Camry and Lexus to the situation. Stupid, stupid, moronic, and useless. I wasn't comparing the leading sedan to the luxury division, but, again for the ignorant and pathetic, a RWD COUPE that is apparently more appealing than grilles meant to filter krill and drivetrains found in some of the most common Fords across the street.

 

Try to keep up, and ask for help with the big words in the future. If you don't understand, ask.

 

I've been waiting for Lincoln to get serious since the Mark VIII, the LS, and Continentals that came with DOHC V8s. There was some differentiation, then, features that really set the Lincolns apart. For now, they're following a milquetoast version of the Lexus playbook without remembering the LS, IS, or GS. Offering multiple sizes of ES350 ain't gonna win the race.

 

'Cuz, you know, Cadillac's RWD strategy has worked out *real well" for them.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZanatWork

[TomServo92]

In all honesty, GM didn't aim Caddy at Lincoln (which had long been neglected). They aimed it at BMW. While they may have garnered some praise from the auto rags, they really haven't put a dent in BMW. So if you want to talk bitch-slapped, I'd say it was Bimmer doing the bitch-slapping and Caddy is the bitch. No matter how you paint it, GM's plan to make Caddy a "BMW fighter" is a big fat FAIL.

 

Now, if in 2-3 years, Lincoln hasn't shown growth after getting new product, then we can discuss whether Lincoln's renovation was a success or not.

[RichardJensen]

Caddy has ... YouTubed itself rolling off Lincoln's mom in the morning on the way to school.

 

Try to keep up, and ask for help with the big words in the future

From where I sit, Cadillac managers attempted to turn their whole lineup over to RWD and failed, attempted to retain a brand exclusive platform and failed, have their volume propped up by a compact CUV built on a shared FWD platform, are in the process of sunsetting the platform under their only successful RWD product, and their sales are down significantly in an up market. If they've had success, it sure hasn't been sustainable.

 

I guess I just don't see how references to sexual impossibilities constitutes a valid response to the above.

 

 

If your next reply is another string of rhetorical devices, don't be surprised if I don't respond.

Edited July 18, 2012 by RichardJensen

[FordBuyer]

From where I sit, Cadillac managers attempted to turn their whole lineup over to RWD and failed, attempted to retain a brand exclusive platform and failed, have their volume propped up by a compact CUV built on a shared FWD platform, are in the process of sunsetting the platform under their only successful RWD product, and their sales are down significantly in an up market. If they've had success, it sure hasn't been sustainable.

 

I guess I just don't see how references to sexual impossibilities constitutes a valid response to the above.

 

 

If your next reply is another string of rhetorical devices, don't be surprised if I don't respond.

 

In reality, the main reason Cadillac sales fell this year in an up market is because they ended a bunch of nameplates, and only now replacing them with XTS and ATS. Once both of these new vehicles are up and running, then that will be better gauge of how Cadillac is doing. I would say Cadillac has lost momentum, but to be fair see how the two all new vehicles sell. It will interesting to compare XTS and MTS sales figures once XTS is fully launched. And I assume the ATS will be Cadillac's new entry vehicle, and sales comparison to MKZ will be interesting. Seems to me that will be kind of a test to whether luxury customers expect their ride to be RWD or could care less. I was not impressed with ATS at NAIAS.

[ANTAUS]

I actually had a 2012 MKZ as a loaner for 2 days with just 1200 miles, and if thats the direction Lincoln is going in driveability, I'm not interested nor do I think they have any hopes of making a true luxury sedan. The springy (nose up in the air, butt droop) upon every release of braking is nauseating, the torque steer unacceptable, and the wallowiness of it's trackability had more drama than a season of Jersey Shore. The "Premium" radio speaker quality could be easily outclassed by a 90s GM Delco Standard system. And the engine sounded like a tortured muffled whale, even a client I had with me was surprised THAT had a Lincoln name on it.

 

I guess I sort of felt like my mother did when she needed to service her CL -Class, and they gave her a "C-Class", as a loaner, she kept saying it wasn't a real Benz, felt like some half-assed attempt that felt short of inspiring confidence in luxury.

 

So I'm hoping the next MKZ has better driveability and Ford doesn't assume that "luxury" means just technology and gadgets and focuses on the whole experience.

[RichardJensen]

In reality, the main reason Cadillac sales fell this year in an up market is because they ended a bunch of nameplates

I know that. And it's a poor excuse if you're arguing that Cadillac is doing it right.

 

If you're arguing that Cadillac is superior on account of its ability to steal, operate a video camera and have sex, well, then, actual sales, or the cancellation of vehicles and the replacement of unique platforms with shared platforms is irrelevant.

[ZanatWork]

Where you sit failed to mention anything about putting out drivers' cars, failed to mention that Caddy can actually get a road test more than a page long because there's actually some driving dynamic worth discussing, and you dodged anything about Lincoln's milquetoast lineup trying to fight a luxury market with more tendencies toward rwd...particularly among the favorites.

 

Alan Mullaly had an LS 430 (rwd for those unaware) when he joined Ford...and supposedly admired Lexus and Toyota's business approaches. Well, even the (utterly despised by yours truly) most overrated and overblown Japanese auto company known for lesser driving dynamics still recognized the benefits of rear drive...and, with Subaru, are proving the point again. Remember: Lexus is rear drive in 3 different car lines. I guess it's worth taking seriously.

 

Lincoln is in the same rut, with evolutionary updates, that they've been in for years, now. The line is getting "prioritized" and "ready to move upmarket" so many times, now, that I wonder if there really is any plan besides putting krill-grilles and softer leather on Fords.

 

From where I sit, Cadillac managers attempted to turn their whole lineup over to RWD and failed, attempted to retain a brand exclusive platform and failed, have their volume propped up by a compact CUV built on a shared FWD platform, are in the process of sunsetting the platform under their only successful RWD product, and their sales are down significantly in an up market. If they've had success, it sure hasn't been sustainable.

 

I guess I just don't see how references to sexual impossibilities constitutes a valid response to the above.

 

 

If your next reply is another string of rhetorical devices, don't be surprised if I don't respond.

[RichardJensen]

failed to mention that Caddy can actually get a road test more than a page long

I didn't mention it because Caddy's well reviewed CTS is on a platform that GM cannot afford to continue. Those reviews haven't generated enough sales to keep the platform going. Sigma is a lame duck.

[jpd80]

...Caddy has bitch-slapped Lincoln,

I can see how spending billions before you go bankrupt does pay off...

 

Never understood why GM spent so much money making Cadillac into a wannabe BMW immitator instead of updating Silverado..

Edited July 18, 2012 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

Where you sit failed to mention anything about putting out drivers' cars, failed to mention that Caddy can actually get a road test more than a page long because there's actually some driving dynamic worth discussing, and you dodged anything about Lincoln's milquetoast lineup trying to fight a luxury market with more tendencies toward rwd...particularly among the favorites.

 

Alan Mullaly had an LS 430 (rwd for those unaware) when he joined Ford...and supposedly admired Lexus and Toyota's business approaches. Well, even the (utterly despised by yours truly) most overrated and overblown Japanese auto company known for lesser driving dynamics still recognized the benefits of rear drive...and, with Subaru, are proving the point again. Remember: Lexus is rear drive in 3 different car lines. I guess it's worth taking seriously.

 

Lincoln is in the same rut, with evolutionary updates, that they've been in for years, now. The line is getting "prioritized" and "ready to move upmarket" so many times, now, that I wonder if there really is any plan besides putting krill-grilles and softer leather on Fords.

 

I think you are being a bit harsh in that the MKX is a CUV worth considering, and the new MKS sedan also. The RWD vs. FWD debate has been played out on here, and frankly Ford has greater issues to deal with right now before even looking at that issue. With Lincoln, Ford has to walk first before it can even start jogging, and it's in the early steps of that right now. Yeah, I think most car lovers including myself want to see a RWD Lincoln and another RWD Ford for that matter, but that's Ford's call and again they have much bigger issues right now before they can green light a new multi billion dollar platform. Talking about it much more is just beating a dead horse. As for the MKZ, about 3-4 come through downtown Plymouth on a weekly basis, and after seeing it so much on street lately, it is starting to look generic. Much better than present MKZ, but still looks like many of the other luxury cars out there. I think it will sell well, but whether it will meet its younger target audience remains to be seen. Priced right I suppose, maybe it can steal a few Lexus buyers, but I don't see it stealing any BMW or Audi customers.

[silvrsvt]

From where I sit, Cadillac managers attempted to turn their whole lineup over to RWD and failed, attempted to retain a brand exclusive platform and failed, have their volume propped up by a compact CUV built on a shared FWD platform, are in the process of sunsetting the platform under their only successful RWD product, and their sales are down significantly in an up market. If they've had success, it sure hasn't been sustainable.

 

Not to mention that the outgoing RWD products where replaced with FWD based platforms.

 

Lincoln has been on life support since start of this century, due to getting ignored when placed in the PAG and being the Cinderella of the group, then Ford's near death in the mid 2000's. Lets see how they are in 5 years, since they are where Ford was in 2005 or so...

 

If anything, Caddy is becoming closer to Lincoln with its introduction of shared FWD platforms...

Edited July 18, 2012 by silvrsvt

[NickF1011]

In reality, the main reason Cadillac sales fell this year in an up market is because they ended a bunch of nameplates, and only now replacing them with XTS and ATS. Once both of these new vehicles are up and running, then that will be better gauge of how Cadillac is doing. I would say Cadillac has lost momentum, but to be fair see how the two all new vehicles sell. It will interesting to compare XTS and MTS sales figures once XTS is fully launched. And I assume the ATS will be Cadillac's new entry vehicle, and sales comparison to MKZ will be interesting. Seems to me that will be kind of a test to whether luxury customers expect their ride to be RWD or could care less. I was not impressed with ATS at NAIAS.

 

If the rest of Cadillac's lineup aside from the SRX and CTS weren't such a hit-or-miss problem over the past several years, they wouldn't have had to worry about replacing a few of them all at once with new out-of-cycle replacements. Yes, the problem the likely won't persist for long, but it's still a problem that shows things aren't all "smooth sailing" over at Cadillac.

[FordBuyer]

If the rest of Cadillac's lineup aside from the SRX and CTS weren't such a hit-or-miss problem over the past several years, they wouldn't have had to worry about replacing a few of them all at once with new out-of-cycle replacements. Yes, the problem the likely won't persist for long, but it's still a problem that shows things aren't all "smooth sailing" over at Cadillac.

 

Even with the new XTS and ATS, Cadillac still has a lot of holes in its lineup. If you don't count the drug dealing Escalade, Cadillac other than SRX doesn't measure up in the hot CUV/SUV segment. It's no better than Lincoln there. Someone earlier mentioned that the bulk of Infiniti sales and models are centered on SUV/CUV sales. Lexus also is certainly strong in those segments with lots of models. Audi/Porsche are certainly going all out into those very profitable segments with different sized CUV/SUV's. Cadillac and Lincoln are only just beginning and barely sticking their toe in water. There is certainly evidence that the luxury market is growing and enough sales for Cadillac and Lincoln if they can get their act together.

[jpd80]

Not to mention that the outgoing RWD products where replaced with FWD based platforms.

 

Lincoln has been on life support since start of this century, due to getting ignored when placed in the PAG and being the Cinderella of the group, then Ford's near death in the mid 2000's. Lets see how they are in 5 years, since they are where Ford was in 2005 or so...

 

If anything, Caddy is becoming closer to Lincoln with its introduction of shared FWD platforms...

Sure is and Cadillac buyers expressing approval and interest in XTS shoes GM that

Cadillac does not have to be exclusively RWD/AWD products. I really wonder about ATS,

whether GM couldn't bring themselves to do a better top hat of Cruze/Verano and just

went of spending a fortune on another Cadillac RWD car....

Edited July 18, 2012 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

Sure is and Cadillac buyers expressing approval and interest in XTS shoes GM that

Cadillac does not have to be exclusively RWD/AWD products. I really wonder about ATS,

whether GM couldn't bring themselves to do a better top hat of Cruze/Verano and just

went of spending a fortune on another Cadillac RWD car....

 

As I said before, the ATS was at the NAIAS in January, and I was not blown away by the exterior or interior. Actually, the XTS at show looked better and garnered more attention. I hope the ATS does well because it is RWD and want it to catch Ford's attention and need to do RWD Lincoln. The road test of ATS should be interesting if it has best motor in it. I'm sure Cadillac has high hopes for it considering its entry level placement. A lot riding on it.

[ZanatWork]

If the ATS can really be a "3" alternative, Caddy could be scary. I kinda doubt it, because that's a market BMW rarely gives much ground in...but if Caddy can do it, Ford will be forced to come up with, well, something for drivers that want an American luxury sedan with sporting potential.

 

For years, I had to accept that Lincoln wouldn't provide me with the M5 or Hammer wagon the Germans had. It really, truly pisses me off to even lightly desire a Caddy. If Lincoln won't pay attention to constant cries for rwd, and if Ford refuses to acknowledge all the attention their rwd concepts get...maybe they derserve to lose that market share.