NLPRacing Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 My father in law is claiming to be getting pricing on a 2013 Escape that is $500 less than the X Plan price that I got for him by just negotiating. How full of shit is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 My father in law is claiming to be getting pricing on a 2013 Escape that is $500 less than the X Plan price that I got for him by just negotiating. How full of shit is he? Dale Jarrett Ford in Monroe, NC shows better than X plan pricing on all vehicles in the showroom. Pricing is on sticker on windshield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) It often depends on the type of car, X-plan pricing on low optioned cars is usually not significant (Plan pricing is mostly based on optional content, not a raw percentage off the MSRP). Edited August 7, 2012 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 My father in law is claiming to be getting pricing on a 2013 Escape that is $500 less than the X Plan price that I got for him by just negotiating. How full of shit is he? I could see that on a more loaded vehicle. Invoice is probably a couple hundred under X Plan, and a good negotiator could easily come in a couple hundred under invoice. I generally don't use my X Plan because my sales lady will sell to me at invoice or below. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I purchased my Escape for less than X-Plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 So, invoice is less than X Plan? Didn't know/realize that. He claims to have ordered two 2013 Escape Titaniums fully loaded except sunroof & trailer tow for less than X-Plan. One will be my company car and the other will be my brother in law's company car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 So, invoice is less than X Plan? Didn't know/realize that. He claims to have ordered two 2013 Escape Titaniums fully loaded except sunroof & trailer tow for less than X-Plan. One will be my company car and the other will be my brother in law's company car. fine print is all I can say. It could be net pricing after rebates or the like, commonly used practice.....course im speculating.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 7, 2012 Author Share Posted August 7, 2012 fine print is all I can say. It could be net pricing after rebates or the like, commonly used practice.....course im speculating.... In your experience, would you say that the X Plan price on the Escape is lower than invoice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The X plan formula is dealer invoice (the real invoice which includes advertising, etc.) minus 0.4% (that's 4/10ths of 1 percent) plus $275. It used to be less than dealer invoice. It is possible to get lower than X plan but you have to beware of 2 things: 1 - rebates. With X plan you still get all rebates and sometimes additional rebates. If X plan is $30k as printed on the invoice but there is a $1k rebate then your final X plan price is $29k. The dealer could be quoting you $30K AFTER the rebate which means you're actually paying $1K more. 2 - doc fees or other hidden fees/dealer add-ons. With X plan the dealer cannot charge more than $100 for the doc fee and forced dealer add-ons are not allowed. Without an actual X plan pin the dealer could charge you $500 doc fee and/or force you to buy paint protection or pay a dealer prep fee, etc. That said, there are some dealers who are basically giving away new vehicles. I don't understand why or how they stay in business but it is possible. You just have to be very very careful. I still use X plan because it's safer and the dealer gets a spiff check for each plan sale. I don't mind the dealer making a few hundred bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoser768 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I bought my last 2 cars X-plan. I liked being able to lookup the price on-line and check inventory and know what I was going to pay. Walked in, told them I wanted to buy this car at X-plan. When they said yes, I filled out the paperwork and drove away in the new car. I don't think it was over 1-1.5 hours from the time I walked in to driving away in the new car. No negotiation (except on the trade) no hassle, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 The X plan formula is dealer invoice (the real invoice which includes advertising, etc.) minus 0.4% (that's 4/10ths of 1 percent) plus $275. It used to be less than dealer invoice. It is possible to get lower than X plan but you have to beware of 2 things: 1 - rebates. With X plan you still get all rebates and sometimes additional rebates. If X plan is $30k as printed on the invoice but there is a $1k rebate then your final X plan price is $29k. The dealer could be quoting you $30K AFTER the rebate which means you're actually paying $1K more. 2 - doc fees or other hidden fees/dealer add-ons. With X plan the dealer cannot charge more than $100 for the doc fee and forced dealer add-ons are not allowed. Without an actual X plan pin the dealer could charge you $500 doc fee and/or force you to buy paint protection or pay a dealer prep fee, etc. That said, there are some dealers who are basically giving away new vehicles. I don't understand why or how they stay in business but it is possible. You just have to be very very careful. I still use X plan because it's safer and the dealer gets a spiff check for each plan sale. I don't mind the dealer making a few hundred bucks. Thanks for the info. If he ever let's me see the numbers, I'll see how good of a deal it really was. I bet his price didn't include the $1000 rebate making his "$500 less price" actually a "$500 more price". When I was 18, I worked for a mega dealer in Fort Worth, TX called Hillard Auto Park. They sold Ford, Mazda, Saturn, Buick & Lexus. I worked for the Saturn service department. I got to go to lunch with "King" Charlie and his son Charlie R Hillard and in talking to them they told me that the service departments & used car sales made more money than new car sales. I guess that's why some dealers sell so cheap, hoping to make it up on the service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 When I was 18, I worked for a mega dealer in Fort Worth, TX called Hillard Auto Park. They sold Ford, Mazda, Saturn, Buick & Lexus. I worked for the Saturn service department. I got to go to lunch with "King" Charlie and his son Charlie R Hillard and in talking to them they told me that the service departments & used car sales made more money than new car sales. I guess that's why some dealers sell so cheap, hoping to make it up on the service. Yep. Dealerships don't make much on new car sales. The real money is in used cars and especially service, not to mention the add-ons they get people to buy when buying new cars. That $2k extended warranty and $500 paint protection package together net them $1k or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 As I have posted here before... Bowen Ford will sell at invoice + all rebates + gas and advertising price... or X-plan + all rebates.. which ever is cheaper.. Doc fee is $39.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 In your experience, would you say that the X Plan price on the Escape is lower than invoice? NOPE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The X plan formula is dealer invoice (the real invoice which includes advertising, etc.) minus 0.4% (that's 4/10ths of 1 percent) plus $275. It used to be less than dealer invoice. It is possible to get lower than X plan but you have to beware of 2 things: 1 - rebates. With X plan you still get all rebates and sometimes additional rebates. If X plan is $30k as printed on the invoice but there is a $1k rebate then your final X plan price is $29k. The dealer could be quoting you $30K AFTER the rebate which means you're actually paying $1K more. 2 - doc fees or other hidden fees/dealer add-ons. With X plan the dealer cannot charge more than $100 for the doc fee and forced dealer add-ons are not allowed. Without an actual X plan pin the dealer could charge you $500 doc fee and/or force you to buy paint protection or pay a dealer prep fee, etc. That said, there are some dealers who are basically giving away new vehicles. I don't understand why or how they stay in business but it is possible. You just have to be very very careful. I still use X plan because it's safer and the dealer gets a spiff check for each plan sale. I don't mind the dealer making a few hundred bucks. Sadly a lot of dealers have resorted to back end profit due to the fact "invoice" pricing is so readily available to the public. Lease rates can be adjusted, warranties, gap insurance ( purchases only ) maintenence etc etc have become a more important part of the overall transaction as people are so fixated on what their PRICE is. Ironically its more profiable to the dealerships as the commission %'s on back end add ons is usually less than that on the "front" end....Ive always found it somewhat amusing when I am informed that a customer has purchased a car elswhere because they save 300 or so dollars, yet their payments are $15 higher than mine were......perception is a funny thing..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Ive always found it somewhat amusing when I am informed that a customer has purchased a car elswhere because they save 300 or so dollars, yet their payments are $15 higher than mine were......perception is a funny thing..... You know, one thing that pi$$es me off about car sales folks is the question "what are you looking for in a payment?" That's usually the first question I get asked (when the first one to greet me isn't my normal saleslady). So many people look at the payment and forget to look at the actual price. Oh, I can get you into this nicer vehicle for $50/month less. Yeah, but I have to pay on it for 2 extra years! Dean, this wasn't directed at you, really more toward the clueless buying public that look at nothing but the payment, which causes sales folks (in general) to prey on that ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You know, one thing that pi$$es me off about car sales folks is the question "what are you looking for in a payment?" That's usually the first question I get asked (when the first one to greet me isn't my normal saleslady). So many people look at the payment and forget to look at the actual price. Oh, I can get you into this nicer vehicle for $50/month less. Yeah, but I have to pay on it for 2 extra years! Dean, this wasn't directed at you, really more toward the clueless buying public that look at nothing but the payment, which causes sales folks (in general) to prey on that ignorance. oh, trust me , no offense taken, was just pointing out, as is witnessed on this thread, some are completely transfixed on price....compromise seems to be a dying art, thus there always seems to be someone pi$$ed off about some part of the deal somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 oh, trust me , no offense taken, was just pointing out, as is witnessed on this thread, some are completely transfixed on price....compromise seems to be a dying art, thus there always seems to be someone pi$$ed off about some part of the deal somewhere. I always wanted to run an ad on tv that said you could lease a brand new F150 for just $50/month for 36 months. $30K due at signing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 My father in law is claiming to be getting pricing on a 2013 Escape that is $500 less than the X Plan price that I got for him by just negotiating. How full of shit is he? So, invoice is less than X Plan? Didn't know/realize that. He claims to have ordered two 2013 Escape Titaniums fully loaded except sunroof & trailer tow for less than X-Plan. One will be my company car and the other will be my brother in law's company car. So, you work for your father in law, he just bought you a new Escape Titanium for a company vehicle and you think he is full of shit?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 So, you work for your father in law, he just bought you a new Escape Titanium for a company vehicle and you think he is full of shit?? Do you work for your father in law? I have for the past 18 years, and yes he's full of shit. Just to clear things up, he didn't buy me anything. The company purchased a tool (this Escape) for me to help the company money. Nothing more, nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 just a side bar here, reflective of a side of human nature I personally try to avoid...ESPECIALLY given my profession. Sit at a bar, and if you are privvy to witnessing a "car purchase" discussion, one thing is predominantly clear, seems theres a competition to see who paid the least....some of the BS I have witnessed/ experienced is beyond beleif....amazing how fragile the Human ego is pertaining to a vehicu-LIAR purchase....glad I have an extended warranty on my tongue sometimes...all that biting as such.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hey Deanh, I guess I am different - as I do not mind if the dealer I buy a vehicle from makes some money off of me. I would rather do business with an outfit making money rather than one loosing, that way they will be around when I need them. As long as I get a fair price and good support, I am happy. A few years ago I was on a commission with someone who had just sold the dealership that his family had owned for many years. The stories he had about customers could keep you entertained for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hey Deanh, I guess I am different - as I do not mind if the dealer I buy a vehicle from makes some money off of me. I would rather do business with an outfit making money rather than one loosing, that way they will be around when I need them. As long as I get a fair price and good support, I am happy. A few years ago I was on a commission with someone who had just sold the dealership that his family had owned for many years. The stories he had about customers could keep you entertained for hours. its a facinating business in some ways , infuriating in some ways, like any business theres the good and the bad, same can be said from the buyers standpoint, I guess all just wish there was a quick and easy way to appese all parties in a fair and pleasent manner....unfortunately theres is dealers AND consumers that think differently, so i doubt it will change dramatically from a perception standpoint.Case in point, just sold an old customer a yellow Boss, was embarassed at showing him the addendum, worked on that a bit for him as hes boughtan Explorer and an F-450 crew cab off us in the last year, and away he gos with a HUGE smile on his face....I HATE those addendums, but they are what they are and shame on ford for limited markup in limited production cars that has dealers adding markups. That said we were at $5k over, apparently everyone else is at 10,so we basically split it with him and have a beautiful 2011 4x4 Explorer Limited as trade....EVERYONES happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.