OHV 16V Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Do you have conclusive evidence that there is a causal relationship between media reviews and sales--or even a direct correlation? Pontiac Aztek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Pontiac Aztek One example does not constitute conclusive evidence of direct correlation. And this example in particular does not support causation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Or-Nothing Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Pontiac Aztek This was not a victim of Media bashing but rather a victim of being ugly as sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) In spite of the vitirolic press reviews, people who are actually considering the purchase of a new MKZ may be far more open to it as a vehicle than the reviewers. I found the language a bit harsh because it marks the vehicle against personal gold standards that seem to move and biased in favor of German marques. As said before, rave reviews are no guarantee of successful conversion into sales, just ask Cadillac how the ATS is going.. People gushed long and hard about it but then winced at the near on $50K price tag for well appointed versions.. Meanwhile, the much better proportioned CTS sales have now been sliced in two, thanks to internal competition. Edited January 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrewfanGRB Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 That's a really good point. I've seen the ads and some reviews on the ATS. I have to admit to being intrigued. So I wandered over to the Cadillac site and was dumbfounded by the pricing. I have no earthly idea what Cadillac is doing with its lineup right now and frankly, that pricing is not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) That's a really good point. I've seen the ads and some reviews on the ATS. I have to admit to being intrigued. So I wandered over to the Cadillac site and was dumbfounded by the pricing. I have no earthly idea what Cadillac is doing with its lineup right now and frankly, that pricing is not going to work. Exactly, they are obsessed with making Faux BMW 3 series and 5 series vehicles but charging genuine BMW prices. Cadillac missed a golden opportunity to make the ATS fractionally larger and deliver a new lightweight mid sized CTS. that in my opinion would justify the prices now being asked for the Compact ATS and eliminate the competing Sigma CTS. In contrast, Lincoln holds fast with an MKZ based on a Fusion while planning a compact SUV based on Escape. Clearly, the costs associated with doing those two vehicles will be much less than with a dedicated platform like Alpha.. It's funny how GM paints themselves into a corner with Cadillac while everyone cheers them on.. Edited January 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The thing is, I might give the bad reviews more weight if they were actually reviews of the car. Instead, they were basically commentaries of how the "journalist" doesn't agree with how Lincoln has been run in the past, and how Ford is stupid for how they are running them now, because they are not being another "me too," luxury brand. They sprinkle in a few comments about the car, to make it a car review. Even the bad reviews have had some good comments on the car. I think it boils down to what side you are on. If you are happy that Ford looks to be taking a different approach to their luxury brand (as in, not another BMW copy............. thank God), and have a wait and see attitude, you find the good in the reviews, and are generally pleased with the car. If you wish they would pursue BMW wanna-be money pit (aka Cadillac), then you agree with the scathing reviews. The thing we have to remember is, most buyers do not let the media sway their opinion, and the vast majority of them are not enthusiasts, so they have no inkling that the MKZ still platform shares with the Fusion. They will see a good looking car with alot of cool features. I think the car will do well for Lincoln. I think it may start off slowly, but as they are seen out on the roads, with the striking looks and presence, they will really take off. Of course, what do I know. I am only in the demographic for this car, and seriously considered it before we bought our Explorer Sport. +1, that was kind of where I was going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHV 16V Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 This was not a victim of Media bashing but rather a victim of being ugly as sin. Apparently you did absolutely no reading when this vehicle was released then, because it was one of the most bashed vehicles of any modern vehicle produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Apparently you did absolutely no reading when this vehicle was released then, because it was one of the most bashed vehicles of any modern vehicle produced. But that bashing didn't cause it not to sell. It didn't sell because it was ugly and the reviews simply echoed that. Had the reviews been positive it wouldn't have made any difference in sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Corollas and Camrys' sell for other merits, probably most of it's buyers can't even see over the wheel let alone read a magazine. lol The MKZ will sell because of what it is. If they keep the expectations low enough, then everyone will be happy with it's results. Dont fault others for having higher aspirations. Lincoln is trying all it can (in a conservative mannter) to reinvent itself and only time will tell if it'll be successful, but I can see where many are vocal and hesitant to believe it because they have seen Lincoln go through this before and it went no where, so understand how they are apprehensive and that trust is the biggest hurdle with the public. If Lincoln builds trust with the public, they will attract new customers-- great, but lack of step-up to vehicles will make them a one time shopper, at this time there doesn't seem to be a plan to retain them that has yet been made public. And obviously that will take time. Realize that when this completed "plan" is and IF it's executed, the typical buyer they are attracting has probably already bought/leases 2-3 vehicles from different manufacturer. And I have test driven the new ATS, I've discussed it before in other posts... Drive great, but at $49K,, I will not tolerate orange peel paint, but I will tell you this, it was the first time I walked into a Caddy dealership. You create a product with enough roar, people will walk into the dealership...doesn't mean all that do will buy it, but some do and thats what most manufacturers depend on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I can see where many are vocal Many who do not have P&L responsibility or effective demand. In short, many who don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Or-Nothing Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 But that bashing didn't cause it not to sell. It didn't sell because it was ugly and the reviews simply echoed that. Had the reviews been positive it wouldn't have made any difference in sales. Exactly...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 And I have test driven the new ATS, I've discussed it before in other posts... Drive great, but at $49K,, I will not tolerate orange peel paint, but I will tell you this, it was the first time I walked into a Caddy dealership. You create a product with enough roar, people will walk into the dealership...doesn't mean all that do will buy it, but some do and thats what most manufacturers depend on. Don't take this the wrong way but I'm glad you walked out without buying anything, for that price you can get an EB MKS or a high series MKZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Corollas and Camrys' sell for other merits lack of step-up to vehicles will make them a one time shopper, at this time there doesn't seem to be a plan to retain them that has yet been made public And the MKZ will sell to a lot of customers on other merits as well such as styling which is probably the biggest factor. If people like the way it looks and feels it will sell decently regardless of what the reviewers say or don't say. As for the plan to retain buyers not being made public - it has, many times. You've just chosen not to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Don't take this the wrong way but I'm glad you walked out without buying anything,for that price you can get an EB MKS or a high series MKZ... I wouldnt buy a GM because historically quality drops off in a few years after ownership. I wouldnt buy the MKZ or MKS, neither appeals to me as a sporty sedan. I did buy an MKX months ago because I wanted something off the ground that was a bit softer and comfortable for when i have others with me, but it's time to replace the LS and I'm looking elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 And which plan would that be ? I mean, we hear some comments about a RWD coupe and your already flying off the latch because you don't care for it. Did they say they are building an intermediate sedan slotted between the MKZ and MKS ? Or will the MKS be the middle vehicle and a range topping super sedan come into the mix ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 ...we hear some comments about a RWD coupe and ... you don't care for it. You and Zan keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Don't take this the wrong way but I'm glad you walked out without buying anything,for that price you can get an EB MKS or a high series MKZ... Or as better alternatives, a 1-2 year old CPO Mercedes-Benz E350 (W212) or Audi A6 3.0T (C7). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 And which plan would that be ? I mean, we hear some comments about a RWD coupe and your already flying off the latch because you don't care for it. Did they say they are building an intermediate sedan slotted between the MKZ and MKS ? Or will the MKS be the middle vehicle and a range topping super sedan come into the mix ? The plan to retain customers is the plan to vastly upgrade the dealership experience with concierge like services and Lexus like amenities along with free maintenance and a longer warranty and to eventually offer 7 different vehicles. You don't need RWD halo cars to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Lexus ES sells year after year. The vast majority of those sales is to people who currently own one, or have owned one. If the MKZ does this, they will be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 akirby, on 03 Jan 2013 - 12:39, said: ...offer 7 different vehicles. You don't need RWD halo cars to do that. agree actually RWD will make more than 7 ...Or will the MKS be the middle vehicle and a range topping super sedan come into the mix ? imho the MKS already is a middle (not medium) vehicle & a stretched E386 as a new TownCar (not super or flagship) could be on the way & then the MKS gets replaced with a global Continental ubersedan - still middle size-wise (imho reality is way over-rated) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I wouldnt buy a GM because historically quality drops off in a few years after ownership. I wouldnt buy the MKZ or MKS, neither appeals to me as a sporty sedan. I did buy an MKX months ago because I wanted something off the ground that was a bit softer and comfortable for when i have others with me, but it's time to replace the LS and I'm looking elsewhere. LS? I'm thinking Jaguar XF might be the car for you.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 LS?I'm thinking Jaguar XF might be the car for you.... Bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Bingo XF is sex on wheels....eye candy. In another universe Ford could have made Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane and Territory into a high end vehicle group like Jaguar XK, XF, XJ.and and a Land Rover SUV Could you imagine those vehicles as Lincolns, the mind boggles..... Edited January 3, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 LS? I'm thinking Jaguar XF might be the car for you.... For 2013, the base U.S. model XF is now Ecoboosted (it uses Ford's versatile 2.0L Ecoboost engine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.