Some Ford Dealers miss Small Pickup

[silvrsvt]

Nothing out there for me. I do look at the Frontiers and the Tacomas, just having a hard time with either of them considering the price tag. Ford has left us with a big gaping hole in the truck market.

 

I just pointed out why Ford isn't investing in this market...its because people like you want to buy something for next to nothing. Ford isn't a charity.

[cheri/ck]

What do you call next to nothing? The well equipped mid-size trucks available are easily in the price range of a similar F-150 regular cab. They are still waiting on redesigns and that will happen shortly. Not willing to pay that price tag until the new mid-sizes come on board.

 

I just priced a new F-150 regular cab with 4X4, 5.0 V-8 and comfortable options. Looking at somewhere around $30,000 cash to special order it and that is not fully optioned out. And would have to special order as they are mostly not available other than 3.7 V-6 work trucks with no good options.

 

Trying to call me cheap is not what this is about. It's the lack of availabilty from Ford of a nice, reasonably sized truck (fits in a normal garage). We only have a choice of two 3/4 ton models - yes the F-150 is in that territory.

[akirby]

Trying to call me cheap is not what this is about. It's the lack of availabilty from Ford of a nice, reasonably sized truck (fits in a normal garage). We only have a choice of two 3/4 ton models - yes the F-150 is in that territory.

 

So go buy a Tacoma or a Frontier or wait for the Colorado. Everybody SAYS they want a midsized truck but nobody's buying them. Ford has better things to invest in.

[cheri/ck]

Guess we'll see. And in that vein - how do you rationlize that my 10 year-old Ranger is worth almost what I paid for it? I'm not talking trade-in. Cash purchase by dealers looking hard for them and getting good money for them when they find them.

 

I don't want the Toyota or Nissan unless I absolutely have to find something. Waiting on their updates which are coming soon. The new Colorado should be interesting, it has been a good competitor to the T-6 Ranger on the international front. Never know what GM will decide though for the American market.

 

Sure looks like Ford is left out of the mix at this point.

[cheri/ck]

And, since most of you guys are so good at remembering numbers, please enlighten me. I think Tacoma is selling well north of 100,000 units per year. Seems to me like the Ranger in its last years of full production was in the 90,000 unit range.

 

Yet on this forum, we talk about so many different Ford vehicles that are selling less than 50,000 units per year. But, we agonize over these vehicles and how to replace them and how much more money to throw at them.

 

Maybe my math is wrong. The business model is getting muddled in my mind.

 

Except for F-150 - sure don't want any in-house competition for that special high profit vehicle from a smaller truck! Never mind losing a few more customers due to lack of choice.

[jpd80]

And, since most of you guys are so good at remembering numbers, please enlighten me. I think Tacoma is selling well north of 100,000 units per year. Seems to me like the Ranger in its last years of full production was in the 90,000 unit range.

70,000 but i get your point, the majority of those vehicles according to Ford were purchased by people wanting cheap transport, a low cost truck

 

 

Yet on this forum, we talk about so many different Ford vehicles that are selling less than 50,000 units per year. But, we agonize over these vehicles and how to replace them and how much more money to throw at them.

 

Maybe my math is wrong. The business model is getting muddled in my mind.

The vehicles normally being spoken about are Flex and MKT which have average transaction prices well north of $35,000 and $45,000 respectively.

The only other vehicle I think you might be thinking of i Transit Connect, a vehicle with an average transaction price around $25,000.

 

Now, if you're having a problem with the prices of Tacoma and Frontier, then perhaps the trucks you're looking at are not good value to you...

Can you see how others in your position may be thinking the same but just go buy an F150 or Silverado instead...(Ford;s plan?)

Edited March 24, 2013 by jpd80

[silvrsvt]

Guess we'll see. And in that vein - how do you rationlize that my 10 year-old Ranger is worth almost what I paid for it? I'm not talking trade-in. Cash purchase by dealers looking hard for them and getting good money for them when they find them.

 

I think someone is blowing smoke up your ass...just looking at the KBB rates for a 2003 XLT with a 2.3L the price from a dealer is $6700.

 

 

70,000 but i get your point, the majority of those vehicles according to Ford were purchased by people wanting cheap transport, a low cost truck

 

Actually the last year of production for the Ranger all went to fleet sales

[akirby]

The complicated business decision has been explained many times. There is no point repeating it here because the Ranger mafia doesn't want to understand it or accept it.

[fordmantpw]

The complicated business decision has been explained many times. There is no point repeating it here because the Ranger mafia doesn't want to understand it or accept it.

 

But the Ranger mafia knows WAY more about how to run a business and make money than Ford does! If Ford listened to the Ranger and Panther mafias, they'd be rolling in the dough and paying $10/share dividends!

[Kris Kolman]

Hold on second... That is entirely simplistic of you two. I have been very open about the fact that the business decision is complicated and not in the Ranger's favor. That I am one of what appears to be a small minority... But complicated means there are positives and negatives to the decision. It also means that changes in the market have the possibility of changing the equation. It is simplistic of you to suggest that a decision made 3-4 years ago based on market and resources at time don't change over time. All I have been saying it that there are negatives to not having a small truck in the lineup and its not ideal for me personally. I have also been pointing out the myths that are the basis of general talking points used to shoot down my comments. You haven't heard me use the words "Ford will be sorry" or anything like that... Because I understand Ford doesn't need to be in every market (i.e. minvans). But as a loyal buyer who's family has worked for Ford for 3 generations it introduces a problem for me personally.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Kris Kolman

[akirby]

That wasn't directed at you Kris. You seem to understand the business implications. Others, like cheri/ck, just don't get it and never will.

 

But the market hasn't changed and I don't see why it would anytime soon.

Edited March 24, 2013 by akirby

[fordmantpw]

Hold on second... That is entirely simplistic of you two. I have been very open about the fact that the business decision is complicated and not in the Ranger's favor. That I am one of what appears to be a small minority... But complicated means there are positives and negatives to the decision. It also means that changes in the market have the possibility of changing the equation. It is simplistic of you to suggest that a decision made 3-4 years ago based on market and resources at time don't change over time. All I have been saying it that there are negatives to not having a small truck in the lineup and its not ideal for me personally. I have also been pointing out the myths that are the basis of general talking points used to shoot down my comments. You haven't heard me use the words "Ford will be sorry" or anything like that... Because I understand Ford doesn't need to be in every market (i.e. minvans). But as a loyal buyer who's family has worked for Ford for 3 generations it introduces a problem for me personally.

 

I don't feel that Ford is out of the small truck market forever. At the time the Ranger was canned, it was not in Ford's best interest to build a new Ranger, or make the T6 available in the US. Remember, Ford was in a precarious position, and had to make some tough decisions to stay afloat. They decided to use their resources to fund more important (to their bottom line, not to Ranger buyers) projects, and areas where they felt their money would have a better ROI. I understand how you feel, and though I have never owned a Ranger, it hurts to see Ford not have one available. Personally, I think something like an Escape truck will be in play in the next couple years, more so than something the size of the T6.

 

As akirby said, you get it, others do not.

[jpd80]

Ford's main focus at the moment is platform consolidation and elimination of platfroms perceived as duplicate/redundant.

The accounts are in charge and driving Ford to maximum internal efficiency, and as a result, niche buyers are suffering.

 

Priority one is maximizing volume product scales of economy, extending platforms to product that fits under the umbrella

and then identify where market gaps exist. It may well be that Ford in the future reinstates Ranger or does a small

pick up of some description to fill that gap but at the moment, money that would be invested on a mid sized truck is

being invested elsewhere at arguably a better return but the emphasis is clearly still on internal efficiency.

Edited March 24, 2013 by jpd80

[cheri/ck]

OK, guys - go back to KBB or where ever you price used vehicles. Might want to check E-Bay or AutoTrader too. I know our local market and so do our local dealers. My Ranger is 4.0 V-6, low mileage, 4X4 and dealer maintained with complete service records - and in very good condition. Plus a matching camper shell and every available option back in 2003.

 

So, speak of what you know about without assuming I drive the cheapest stuff out there. And, continue the internal efficiency and maximizing volumes Ford talk - I am a retired accountant. And contrary to popular thought here, I do understand numbers - very well.

 

With that in mind, Ford can limit their available vehicles to what they truly think are volume leaders. Or they can "maximize" the volume by offering a choice to customers and see what sells well. The buyers will determine this direction as to failure or success.

 

I think Ford is headed downhill in terms of market share based on such narrow thinking. Shrink the vehicles available and without some kind of stand out, barn-burning new vehicle - shrink market share.

 

We'll see........

[jpd80]

I think Ford is headed downhill in terms of market share based on such narrow thinking. Shrink the vehicles available and without some kind of stand out, barn-burning new vehicle - shrink market share.

 

We'll see........

We're already seeing, Ford is increasing next quarter's production to 800,000...

[Pioneer]

I am getting calls from local car dealers wanting my 10 year-old Ranger.

I wouldn't much mind selling it to them for almost what I paid for it nine years ago

You didn't even buy your last one new. Ford doesn't sell used cars. Ford doesn't make money on used cars. If they can't make money on it they aren't going to build it.

[akirby]

You didn't even buy your last one new. Ford doesn't sell used cars. Ford doesn't make money on used cars. If they can't make money on it they aren't going to build it.

 

So the Ranger Mafia has officially caught up with the Panther Mafia where the people complaining about what Ford doesn't build any more never bought new ones?

Edited March 25, 2013 by akirby

[Mackintire]

A couple of interesting comments Ford has said in the past:

 

• They had considered developing a smaller truck based on the F150 platform. But was not able to figure a profitable business model for such a vehicle. This vehicle was still bigger than the T6.
• The T6 was too expensive to bring to the US.
• The T6's frame will be widened on the next major refresh, specifically the bed WILL be able to hold a standard size pallet after the next major refresh.

 

To me, it looks like Fords may consider converging the F100? and the T6 projects at the next major refresh. 2016-2018?

[ScapeTom]

You didn't even buy your last one new. Ford doesn't sell used cars. Ford doesn't make money on used cars. If they can't make money on it they aren't going to build it.

 

While this is true, Ford also doesn't sell new cars to people that can't sell or trade their used cars. If I hadn't been able to sell or trade my Honda, I certainly wouldn't have been able to buy my new Escape.

[akirby]

While this is true, Ford also doesn't sell new cars to people that can't sell or trade their used cars. If I hadn't been able to sell or trade my Honda, I certainly wouldn't have been able to buy my new Escape.

 

You can sell or trade any vehicle at any time. Period.

[ScapeTom]

You can sell or trade any vehicle at any time. Period.

 

I wasn't disagreeing with the original premise, that Ford doesn't make money on used cars.

 

I was merely pointing out that without the used car market, the new car market would shrink enormously. Meaning that while Ford doesn't make money directly on the sales of used cars, they certainly would sell a lot fewer new cars if people didn't have a means of selling off their old cars. So in that respect, the used car market is useful to Ford.

[akirby]

I wasn't disagreeing with the original premise, that Ford doesn't make money on used cars.

 

I was merely pointing out that without the used car market, the new car market would shrink enormously. Meaning that while Ford doesn't make money directly on the sales of used cars, they certainly would sell a lot fewer new cars if people didn't have a means of selling off their old cars. So in that respect, the used car market is useful to Ford.

 

Overall it's useful but the point that Pioneer was making is that the people that seem to yell the loudest about Ford cancelling a vehicle are people who don't actually buy new ones therefore they can't use the fact that they buy used ones as a justification for Ford to continue building them.

[jpd80]

I wasn't disagreeing with the original premise, that Ford doesn't make money on used cars.

 

I was merely pointing out that without the used car market, the new car market would shrink enormously.

You have that back the front,

Without people buying new vehicles and then trading them to the used market, there is no used market.

Taking away new buyers and low mileage trade ins has a much greater effect on used car prices, they go up.

[cheri/ck]

And that above is what keeps the dealers in business. Ford sells the new vehicles to the dealers and it would seem they don't make a bunch off the new vehicles. Ford has made their money at that point. I know they have a reserve on the ones the dealers purchase, but think the dealers' money mostly comes in elsewhere.

 

The dealers are usually working hard with used vehicles, trade-ins and hopefully a good deal of service work in between. And that is where they make most of their money. And without the dealers making a decent profit, Ford would be in a lot of trouble.

 

Narrow minded thinking, accusations, assumptions and unfounded comments are what this thread is about. Keep Ford corporate profit at the expense of less selection for the customer. Bean counter thinking that will eventually be a huge negative for any company.

 

And, yes the used vehicle market is hugely strong right now. I would indeed trade in my 10 year old Ranger for close to what I paid for it nine years ago, if Ford sold something I wanted to buy. As it stands, we keep the old ones and fix them as needed.

 

So far, that hasn't been too expensive. Just an inconvenience waiting on Ford to make something we want to buy again. And that includes new. I do think the new truck market is about to create some options for us. Just not Ford so far in the mix.

 

The only used Ford trucks I want to consider are 2008 F-150 and the last of the SportTracs. One is too big and the other without a usable bed. They are high priced - I can buy a nearly new recent year F-150 for what the 2008 models are trying to sell for.

 

Hanging on for a while longer. Need a decent choice from Ford of a less than three-quarter ton, too big truck for normal everyday rural use.

[silvrsvt]

And that above is what keeps the dealers in business. Ford sells the new vehicles to the dealers and it would seem they don't make a bunch off the new vehicles. Ford has made their money at that point. I know they have a reserve on the ones the dealers purchase, but think the dealers' money mostly comes in elsewhere.

 

The dealers are usually working hard with used vehicles, trade-ins and hopefully a good deal of service work in between. And that is where they make most of their money. And without the dealers making a decent profit, Ford would be in a lot of trouble.

 

Huh? Do you seriously know what your talking about?