Some Ford Dealers miss Small Pickup

[fordmantpw]

yup...now try and put a refrigerator in it..................

 

Not everyone hauls refrigerators..........

[Deanh]

Not everyone hauls refrigerators..........

then you missed the reference to HEIGHT completely.... lol

Edited March 15, 2013 by Deanh

[cheri/ck]

And, we do get some comments from those that have never actually used a truck. Especially a smaller one that can do only some things that smaller vehicles can do. Tighter turning, tighter parking, easier backing and contray to popular belief -better gas mileage.

 

The idea that the little Transit would replace a Ranger for the auto parts companies is absurd in my mind. Those guys haul things like engine blocks that have to be lifted by equipment into the back. Ever try to get a pallet of something heavy into a truck with a shell on it? It can be done, but takes extra time and you are sure at the mercy of the equipment operator to shove it in right. As opposed to simply dropping it in.

 

Then we get to address the problem of fluids leaking from the return parts these trucks pick up. Not a pretty picture for the driver of the little van trying to get that stuff back home. I'm sure the leakage could be addressed, but not the odors.

 

Kind of doubt the landscapers that need to get in tight places are real crazy about hauling smelly stuff in anything other than open bed, small truck.

 

Clean up is so easy with an open bed truck too. And we tend to forget that the Transit is not available with 4WD, not even AWD. That is needed by many that buy (used to buy) Rangers.

 

The Transit Connect replacement for the Ranger conversation needs to go away. And, I haven't even mentioned hauling my big smelly dog around! The one with arthritis that can get into the back of a Ranger on her own, but has to be lifted by two people to get her into the tall F-150's.

 

There is a market for these trucks and it is hugely disappointing that Ford is not addressing it properly.

[Deanh]

And, we do get some comments from those that have never actually used a truck. Especially a smaller one that can do only some things that smaller vehicles can do. Tighter turning, tighter parking, easier backing and contray to popular belief -better gas mileage.

 

The idea that the little Transit would replace a Ranger for the auto parts companies is absurd in my mind. Those guys haul things like engine blocks that have to be lifted by equipment into the back. Ever try to get a pallet of something heavy into a truck with a shell on it? It can be done, but takes extra time and you are sure at the mercy of the equipment operator to shove it in right. As opposed to simply dropping it in.

 

Then we get to address the problem of fluids leaking from the return parts these trucks pick up. Not a pretty picture for the driver of the little van trying to get that stuff back home. I'm sure the leakage could be addressed, but not the odors.

 

Kind of doubt the landscapers that need to get in tight places are real crazy about hauling smelly stuff in anything other than open bed, small truck.

 

Clean up is so easy with an open bed truck too. And we tend to forget that the Transit is not available with 4WD, not even AWD. That is needed by many that buy (used to buy) Rangers.

 

The Transit Connect replacement for the Ranger conversation needs to go away. And, I haven't even mentioned hauling my big smelly dog around! The one with arthritis that can get into the back of a Ranger on her own, but has to be lifted by two people to get her into the tall F-150's.

 

There is a market for these trucks and it is hugely disappointing that Ford is not addressing it properly.

we utilize, Rangers, F-150s and transit connects for our parts vehicles....they all serve slightly different purposes....

[akirby]

There is a market for these trucks and it is hugely disappointing that Ford is not addressing it properly.

 

You mean the market that went from 2 million to 250 thousand in just a decade? The one where virtually nobody is making any significant investment in new vehicles?

 

There is a market but not enough of a market for Ford to do it profitably. Of course you don't care - you just want whatever you want and screw the business case, right?

[fordmantpw]

then you missed the reference to HEIGHT completely.... lol

 

Ha ha, I was thinking you probably COULD fit a fridge in a TC since they are pretty tall, but I haven't been in one.

[cheri/ck]

Once again, we forget the investment GM is making to bring the Colorado in next year. Completely revamping a factory. That Colorado is a direct competitor to the T-6 Ranger everywhere but here. The global Ranger is a little too good for us it seems according to Ford.

 

Those of you that look at dimensions, sales numbers, compare all those numbers to make decisions about marketing. And, fail to understand that Ford took the lead here in the demise of the small truck by not developing the Ranger beyond about 2005. Ford is (or has been) the truck leader and the rest of the manufacturers pay attention. They follow with Ford's direction or lack thereof, so the mid-size trucks have had no development. Therefore, no new engines or transmissions or all those other developments that could have led them to good mileage numbers. And therefore, loss of market to the big trucks.

 

But, GM is taking it by the reins and we will have a new domestic mid-size truck next year that is hopefully a capable, good gas mileage one.

 

And, during all this bean counter stuff - wonder if anyone has considered the cost of losing those Ford customers that will have no choice but to look elsewhere for a small truck. Now that they realize Ford has nothing smaller than the F-150. They will go to the competition. Getting those customers back may bring a hefty cost.

 

Won't even get into the problems with the latest 2011-2012 F-150 model. Yeah - it outsells until you look at the combined numbers for both GM and GMC combined. And that GM offering is an old truck about to maybe hit the market with a decent redesign. Lots of problems with this latest Ford F-150 design, new engines, new tranny - trying to take a 5,000+ truck into good gas mileage. Which few report.

 

I see nothing here but trouble for Ford in their best market - trucks. We are Ford truck people for over 30 years and sure wish we didn't have to leave. Also have a good local dealer.

 

Still hoping to stay Ford loyal, but we are barely hanging on with too many older trucks. And nothing we want to buy from Ford.

[akirby]

GM is grasping at straws with the new Colorado. They're chasing sales numbers at the expense of profits. Nobody is following Ford. If there was a big enough market then the other mfrs would be going after it with new stuff. The Colorado isn't new or game changing.

 

Thinking that GM product decisions are wise is to ignore history.

[fordmantpw]

Why is it that so many think that Ford has a vendetta against them and think that Ford is only keeping the Ranger out of the US to stick it to 'em! I read some of these posts, and that's the feeling I get.

 

Oh, and cheri/ck, let's not use what GM is doing as an example of good business practices. Remember, they were the ones that went bankrupt, not Ford...

[cheri/ck]

Frankly, the lack of bankruptcy by Ford was a great thing at the time. And something to feel very proud about - felt the same way. But they owe a lot of money now that GM and Chrsyler does not owe. That old lack of bankruptcy was good for a while, but I suspect considering how long people remember things - it doesn't much matter any more.

 

Seems to me that Ford has tried to cut down on product development, maybe lack of varied product development as much as anything. In a serious effort to pay back all the old debt (in bonds) that they still owe. Ford is bringing in good products from Europe, trying to adapt them to the American market and so far I don't see even one doing well.

 

Ford has every version of SUV and CUV available, but looking closely - they are related on common chassis and drivetrain combinations. Styling has never been a great Ford card and it still isn't. The cars struggle to compete. Somebody tell me when Ford last had a big home-run with a car or car-derived chassis? I forget like many. The Fusion is still good and OK, the Mustang which looks like it will get a new look soon. But the last of the rear-wheel drives. And people like rear-wheel-drive. Both Dodge and GM are addressing that issue, Ford is not with cars.

 

Ford has an incredibly loyal truck base that they are slapping against. Not only the cancel of the small, capable truck, but the 2011-12 F-150 is a disappointment. The new engines (almost good now) and the 6-speed tranny (may never be good) is close to an embarassment. There is more. If you don't believe me, look at the TSB's and constant chasing of components that just don't work right not to speak of meshing right together.

 

So, yes - there isn't anything from Ford that we want to buy especially considering the latest pricing. Although, from what I have seen lately, the dealers are seriously discounting the F-150 and Ford is already heavy into rebates. We are not the younger generation that trades a truck every year or two and works hard to keep making the payment. Styling matters little to us, but reliabily and long-term does.

 

We'll see. Just hate no good choices here from Ford for us in terms of replacing either the Rangers or the F-150's.

[Kris Kolman]

I got to avoid the Ranger threads... But here I go again...

 

I don't think Ford has a vendetta against me... But you have to admit the talk from Ford's various PR presentations can be interpreted as insulting. It was in Ford's media event that they said Ranger buyers should buy a Fiesta. Getting beyond that me and my Ranger-mafia brothern have a right to be disappointed, and I think you are seeing is the emotion from a very loyal buyer base that feels abandoned. And the attitude from some on this board who have bordered on vendetta against those of us who want the Ranger, and that does nothing but ramp up the rhetoric.

[cheri/ck]

Feel the same way and try to stay away from even mentioning Ranger on this forum or complaining about the F-150. Swear myself off over and over from this forum. I am likely to get banned soon. But sometimes it just gets too frustrating.

 

The Rangers have been close to tractors for us and weathered that abuse well. It is still hard for us to look at them aging and have to remind ourselves - Ford doesn't make them any more.

 

We drive our 2007 model F-150 - regular cab, 4X4, short bed - a lot. Great truck, rough ride, turns short, gets good gas mileage even with the 5.4. Same wheel base as an extended cab Ranger. Same length bumper to bumper as our older extended cab F-150, we just lost the rear seat. Progress?

 

It has accumulated a lot of miles quickly and we dread the change of spark plugs. Could be very expensive due to Ford's lack of better design with the 5.4 or just lack of care for the end user. These kind of things don't feel good and maybe our good dealer can get those likely stuck plugs out without damaging the head. The dealer quotes $500 to $1,000 and doesn't quite say maybe more yet. Just to get the spark plugs changed out at 100,000 miles on a truck that has been properly dealer maintained? Guess once again with Ford, we'll see how it goes.

 

So, we are doubting Ford a lot now. I think I am doubting their engineering more than anything. At least with the trucks and they don't offer anything we want to buy again yet. Not interested in the fancy supercrews. We don't carry people much.

 

Just need a good, strong truck. Not a replacement for a family vehicle. Hoping for better from Ford, but not seeing much indication of that happening soon.

 

And, yeah - got a good laugh out of that one with the Fiesta. A Fiesta would work great out here where we live! Imagine the tires would blow out within a month due to rock damage. No telling what else next............

 

Oh well.

[akirby]

First - Ford has $24B in CASH and only $14B in debt. So that argument doesn't hold water. They spend more on R&D than most other companies and I'm sure they've launched more new vehicles the last 5 years than any other mfr.

 

Ford doesn't hate Ranger owners. We're just trying to explain to you guys why Ford made that decision. If you'd stop the self-pity and anger long enough to actually LISTEN then you might actually understand.

 

Once the market dropped and sales dropped far below what Ford expected it became too expensive to keep producing it in a stand alone plant. It was cheaper to kill it than put all that money into redesigning/updating it and keeping an entire plant running to produce less than 100k units. It was a simple business decision that every good manager would make every single time given the same circumstances.

 

GET OVER IT ALREADY!

[jpd80]

Mid Sized truck sales last month

Tacoma............................. 12,644

Frontier............................. 2,736

Ridgeline .......................... 1,301

Colorado........................... 828

 

 

[FordBuyer]

GM is grasping at straws with the new Colorado. They're chasing sales numbers at the expense of profits. Nobody is following Ford. If there was a big enough market then the other mfrs would be going after it with new stuff. The Colorado isn't new or game changing.

 

Thinking that GM product decisions are wise is to ignore history.

 

Don't stretch the truth too much there Kirby. Toyota does ok with the Tacoma, and with Tacoma assembly going to Texas plant with Tundra, has kept that plant busy as I believe the Tacoma does outsell the Tundra. And Toyota is redesigning the Tacoma. Ford isn't the fricking bible in how to run an auto company. They certainly are doing well, and thank god, but there is room for finding your own niches and being very successful at it. Look at Buick.

[silvrsvt]

Don't stretch the truth too much there Kirby. Toyota does ok with the Tacoma, and with Tacoma assembly going to Texas plant with Tundra, has kept that plant busy as I believe the Tacoma does outsell the Tundra. And Toyota is redesigning the Tacoma. Ford isn't the fricking bible in how to run an auto company. They certainly are doing well, and thank god, but there is room for finding your own niches and being very successful at it. Look at Buick.

 

 

The Tacoma in the US at best sold 170K units in one year since 2000...vs what at least 400K high profit F-150 per year for Ford in same time period?

[silvrsvt]

yup...now try and put a refrigerator in it..................

 

 

Don't need too...Home Depot/Lowes delivers for free

 

Plus I'm sure you can fit a Mini fridge into a TC no problem

 

And if you need to deliver that many refrigerators, you need something bigger then a Ranger...

 

Its a straw man argument...I can easily turn it around and say how can I fit 15 people legally in a Ranger or whatever?

[FordBuyer]

The Tacoma in the US at best sold 170K units in one year since 2000...vs what at least 400K high profit F-150 per year for Ford in same time period?

 

Would the F-150 be selling like it is today if Ford had refused to update it for over 25 years and used same drivetrain as one from late 80's? Ford did that to the Ranger and then acted like consumer is dumb as they said Ranger wasn't competitive anymore after letting it rot on vine for decades. I would be willing to bet that Ranger would be in 200,000 range/year if it had been udated with latest drivetrain and features like F-150. And companies and retail buyers would have more choice. Of course not a big deal now since Ranger is done, buried, and those who want smaller truck can buy U.S. assembled Tacoma or wait for GM's latest version. It's not like Ford or nothing. Thank god for competition and more choice if your favored company doesn't make what you want.

[RichardJensen]

Would the F-150 be selling like it is today if Ford had refused to update it

 

Humorously, Toyota *has* updated the Tacoma repeatedly, and its sales are trending downward.

[RichardJensen]

I'm giving this thread the DF award:

 

 

Nothing good gonna come out of it now.

[sullynd]

"Some Ford Dealers miss Small Pickup"

 

Some Lincoln dealers miss Mercury. That ain't bringing it back.

[Kris Kolman]

The Tacoma in the US at best sold 170K units in one year since 2000...vs what at least 400K high profit F-150 per year for Ford in same time period?

 

If I extend your argument it would lead me to say Ford should only sell the F-150 because they are clearly not making any money on the Super-Duty. Why bother continuing selling F-250 is they only get 103k in sales, or the F-350 with only 70k in sales. Hell why bother selling cars at all, in particular the razor thin profit margin Fiesta... I mean if you can't sell near 1/2 millions vehicles a year it apparently isn't worth pursuing. Ad ridiculum as my response is your argument lacks seriousness...

 

Locking the Ranger or other small truck sales to full sized truck sales is lazy. Small truck success or lack there of isn't really tied to large truck sales. Heck Ford's cancellation of the Ranger is proving that small truck owners aren't simply looking for a cheaper alternative. If so Ford should be seeing a F-150 bump from people trading in their Ranger, and according to many sources that isn't happening. Ford would be the one to know that best as they have access to proprietary sales data, and as these rumors started to circle we hear a Ford official come out and say there is room in the market for a small truck. They proving to be are separate if related markets, just as the F-150 and the F-250/350 are.

 

Small trucks have always operated in an environment with full-sized trucks, and the price differential has always been razor thin. So the collapse of the small truck market has to be due to factors other than what is going on in the full-sized market. To me it is clearly the availability to compact SUVs (RAV4, etc) who's introduction corresponded with the start of the collapse. Another factor I believe has to be traffic safety laws that have forced children to the rear seats... Which if you've noticed has resulted in the near death of the 2-door SUV and passenger car. Both of these were a one-two punch to small pickup trucks, and in particular the Ranger which didn't have a Crew Cab option.

 

And to dispel a myth many of you have... The Tacoma sales are at 14k per month which puts it near the 2006 high (see http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02/where-have-ford-ranger-buyers-gone.html).

 

I understand the Ford has limited resources and must make "hard decisions"... One of which has led to them deciding to not invest in T6 Ranger manufacturing in the US. But its a long extrapolation to be so firm in saying Ford has decided they can't make money on a small truck. Choices based on return on investment, or making choice on priorities doesn't mean what you think it means. In fact by the contrary I remind you again that Ford itself has been talking about room in the market for a small truck, not just the dealers. There is money in the small truck market... The question is more of how to tap into that best.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Kris Kolman

[akirby]

There is money in the small truck market... The question is more of how to tap into that best.

 

Isn't that exactly what we've been saying?

[jpd80]

Of course not a big deal now since Ranger is done, buried, and those who want smaller truck can buy U.S. assembled Tacoma or wait for GM's latest version.

It's not like Ford or nothing. Thank god for competition and more choice if your favored company doesn't make what you want.

And it's not like either of those companies are selling huge volumes.

It's not that Ford is doing nothing as it clearly chose to pursue Utilities instead of Mid sized trucks.

[Kris Kolman]

Isn't that exactly what we've been saying?

 

Just go back to the post right before mine... Equating small trucks to Mercury is different that what you are saying... Getting beyond that...

 

I've been very understanding of the reality that I'm one of a small minority... And that it is a tentative business case for Ford to bring over the T6 Ranger. As said I don't consider this a vendetta against me personally, but I'm disappointed none the less. To tell the truth as the last few years have developed, and my Ranger has sat more and more I'm perhaps not a buyer in the end. Call it growing up if you will, but demonstrates I have an open mind on this. I will only say based on my set of desires the T6 Ranger seems the best fit... My wish list includes must have 4WD also can carry 4 adults with either a back end full of weekend camping equipment and/or tow 3500 lb (small boat) at altitude. I am inclined to want a open bed so I can load up garden stuff without getting everything dirty. I am also inclined to want the smallest vehicle that meets my desires... Just like the Mountaineer was bought because it was a smaller Expedition/Tahoe in terms of capability. Now I am open to a midsized SUV based "Ford Ridgeline" if you will, but those pushing for a little Brazilian Courier are missing it completely.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Kris Kolman