Pioneer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Last time I checked, Unibody vs Frame doesn't mix too well on the same assembly line..... St Louis Assembly did it for years. Dearborn was built to be able to do it. The ability was just never utilized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 St Louis Assembly did it for years. Dearborn was built to be able to do it. The ability was just never utilized. Wixom - Town Cars and LS on the same line. Final assembly at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) It's not ba big dea for the Final assembly line, the real problem with different vehicle types has always been off line assembly points and the space to do that. Flex plants is a dead idea, minimizing platform and plant numbers is a much better solution Edited March 5, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Flex plants is a dead idea, minimizing platform and plant numbers is a much better solution Being a flex plant doesn't just mean multiple models in the same line. It means quick model changeovers and cheaper tooling costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Last time I checked, Unibody vs Frame doesn't mix too well on the same assembly line..... Then we get back to the ROW Ranger vs the F-150....it makes no sense to offer a compact truck that offers less capacity the the smallest F-150 with nearly the same "crappy" MPGs ARRRRRRRRRRRG!...Its NOT all about capacity.......with that reasoning why is there even an F-150 when theres the Superduties?????? Edited March 5, 2013 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted March 5, 2013 Author Share Posted March 5, 2013 Flex plants is a dead idea, minimizing platform and plant numbers is a much better solution You're kidding right? Then why did Ford just spend $550 million dollars to make MAP their most flexible high-volume manufacturing plant in the world? http://corporate.ford.com/our-company/investors/investor-news-detail/pr-transformed-michigan-assembly-33070 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
156n3rd Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Wow! I've been of this forum for a while but I see that the same participants still live and breathe here. IMO, the F-150 and all American full sized trucks are HUGE. I sat in them at the Philly auto show and couldn't believe the size of the cabs! And the ponderous length. Again, wow! The Ranger seems like a manageable sized unit that could do many things well, if kept modernized. Alas, Someone here said that Ford can't be all things to all people in the auto world which is a wise and true statement. Heck, my brother will not part with his 1996 Nissan Extended cab Pickup. He would rather have teeth pulled with pliers. he is adamant and say that the newest small trucks are bloated costly pigs. His words, not mine. he never liked any Ford in his life. He trest drove a mazda back in the day and even with the 3.0 Vulcan, he hated it. His truck still gets pheno mileage. What would a Transit based pickup look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Wow! I've been of this forum for a while but I see that the same participants still live and breathe here. IMO, the F-150 and all American full sized trucks are HUGE. I sat in them at the Philly auto show and couldn't believe the size of the cabs! And the ponderous length. Again, wow! The Ranger seems like a manageable sized unit that could do many things well, if kept modernized. Alas, Someone here said that Ford can't be all things to all people in the auto world which is a wise and true statement. Heck, my brother will not part with his 1996 Nissan Extended cab Pickup. He would rather have teeth pulled with pliers. he is adamant and say that the newest small trucks are bloated costly pigs. His words, not mine. he never liked any Ford in his life. He trest drove a mazda back in the day and even with the 3.0 Vulcan, he hated it. His truck still gets pheno mileage. What would a Transit based pickup look like? good to see Speedbumps is back..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 ARRRRRRRRRRRG!...Its NOT all about capacity.......with that reasoning why is there even an F-150 when theres the Superduties?????? Like I've said before, you could take that kind of thinking right back to 1950. Why does any manufacturer need anything other than an F-1 (F-150) and a Custom Deluxe (Taurus)? I absolutely disagree with it but that seems to be Ford's logic on pickup trucks...one size fits all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 If I were a Ford dealer I would be extremely pissed that I have nothing to compete with the Tacoma or Colorado that my customer can walk two blocks away and buy all while knowing that Ford already has what I need but won't let me sell it. Yet I can try and sell one Flex every six months. I thought Ford was supposed to be a "full line" manufacturer? I guess now that only applies to cars and CUV's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 If I were a Ford dealer I would be extremely pissed that I have nothing to compete with the Tacoma or Colorado that my customer can walk two blocks away and buy all while knowing that Ford already has what I need but won't let me sell it. Yet I can try and sell one Flex every six months. I thought Ford was supposed to be a "full line" manufacturer? I guess now that only applies to cars and CUV's. Because, you know, Ford has an infinite supply of money so they can immediately develop all projects that they could ever wish to sell, regardless of whether or not they feel they can make money on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) not all F-150s go for $50K No, but they are getting expensive by the day. Simply comparing a new 2012/2013 F150 at my dealer with the same equipment as my 2006 F150 (yeah, 7yrs old), the MSRP was almost $10K more than the MSRP for my truck. I know they have many more standard safety and emissions features, but it was also the 5.0L, where as my F150 is the 5.4L and the biggest motor of that generation. I'm sorry, these trucks are getting too costly. Maybe $3K-$5K, or slightly more I could POSSIBLY see, but not no $10K. I can see the argument about size, but IIRC the difference between a Super Cab Ranger and most 6ft bed length F-150s is a difference of less then 20 inches...its a decent difference but at the same time not that more "huge" or whatever you want to call it. Yes the F-150 is wider and taller, but its not Mosteriously bigger (outside of a 8 foot bed) then a Super Cab Ranger....if you can't adjust for 10 inches give or take between the front and rear of the truck...you might have issues. Being a former owner of 2 Rangers and having owned 2 F150s, you can talk about dimensions all you want. Get behind the wheel of each and try to park one in a garage, in the grocery store parking lot, drive around the city especially in rush hour. I can tell you from first had experience, it is night and day difference driving/parking these trucks due to their size. It's like going from an Escape to driving an Expy, drastically different experience. MPG and over-done capability isn't all what it's all about. Say once you have say a butt warmers on your car, are you going to go back to a product that doesn't offer them? I know I miss my buttwarmers and sun roof on my SVT Focus I had....I got heated and cooled seats with a sunroof on my SHO Been there, done that, no biggie. Had them in my '99 Explorer and '02 F150, not in my current F150. Nice feature, but don't miss them. For the same reason they discontinued the Flareside option. The take rate was too low. Personally, the 5.5' bed on the Scab and the Flareside for the 04+ model F150s were ugly. Flareside looked much better on the 97-03 F150s. Edited March 8, 2013 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) No, but they are getting expensive by the day. Simply comparing a new 2012/2013 F150 at my dealer with the same equipment as my 2006 F150 (yeah, 7yrs old), the MSRP was almost $10K more than the MSRP for my truck. I know they have many more standard safety and emissions features, but it was also the 5.0L, where as my F150 is the 5.4L and the biggest motor of that generation. I'm sorry, these trucks are getting too costly. Maybe $3K-$5K, or slightly more I could POSSIBLY see, but not no $10K. Being a former owner of 2 Rangers and having owned 2 F150s, you can talk about dimensions all you want. Get behind the wheel of each and try to park one in a garage, in the grocery store parking lot, drive around the city especially in rush hour. I can tell you from first had experience, it is night and day difference driving/parking these trucks due to their size. It's like going from an Escape to driving an Expy, drastically different experience. MPG and over-done capability isn't all what it's all about. Been there, done that, no biggie. Had them in my '99 Explorer and '02 F150, not in my current F150. Nice feature, but don't miss them. Personally, the 5.5' bed on the Scab and the Flareside for the 04+ model F150s were ugly. Flareside looked much better on the 97-03 F150s. refreshing, an ACTUAL truck owner that gets it...they have escalated in cost in a worriesome matter, and the higher the price the SMALLER the customer base....I remember I bought my F-150 supercab 4X4 ( BEFORE D plan ) for $28k, xlt well equipped...I would pay that much now for a BASE 2 wheel drive with a 6 cylinder......and forget inflation, sure thats relaity, but I REFUSE to spend what would be close to 40 k now for the SAME TRUCK....so, irrespective of my situation, all that means is either used car market or a different manufacturer that HASNT turned their back on the smaller trucks.... Edited March 11, 2013 by Deanh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Maybe the escalating full-size cost is a way of making room for a lower priced, smaller truck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Maybe the escalating full-size cost is a way of making room for a lower priced, smaller truck? I would think Ford would need an entry level vehicle in every popular segment it competes in as when I look on dealer lot, every F-150 I see in inventory starts in $35,000 range. Finding a stripped down F-150 single cab on lot is not easy. Bill Brown has a big selection of F-Series on lot, and never a basic F-150. Most on lot are in high 30K range and up. More than a few times I've overheard customers on lot lamenting that there were no lower priced pickups on lot. I guess Ford dealers have not gotten the memo that middle class people are under pressure with stagnating incomes and upward pressure on prices. At least in Detroit, many must buy pickups worth more than their home value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Maybe the escalating full-size cost is a way of making room for a lower priced, smaller truck? "Let's raise the price on our profit making volume seller, sure we may sell fewer of them, but will make it up on volume of our new smaller truck on which we lose money." Seems too GM to me. Raise the price of the F150 to support sales of a Ranger replacement, and rather than selling Rangers, you'll be selling Silverados and RAMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I would think Ford would need an entry level vehicle in every popular segment it competes in as when I look on dealer lot, every F-150 I see in inventory starts in $35,000 range. Finding a stripped down F-150 single cab on lot is not easy. Bill Brown has a big selection of F-Series on lot, and never a basic F-150. Most on lot are in high 30K range and up. More than a few times I've overheard customers on lot lamenting that there were no lower priced pickups on lot. I guess Ford dealers have not gotten the memo that middle class people are under pressure with stagnating incomes and upward pressure on prices. At least in Detroit, many must buy pickups worth more than their home value. Judging by sales data nearly 75% of all F150s sold are 1) Double cab, 2) EB V6 or 5.0 V8 and 3) XLT or better trim level. The reason why you don't see entry level single cab f150s is that Silverado is much cheaper and wants those sales whilst Ford chases the mid and high series double cab market. That's whay F150's ATPs are around $4,000 higher than Silverados. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 "Let's raise the price on our profit making volume seller, sure we may sell fewer of them, but will make it up on volume of our new smaller truck on which we lose money." Seems too GM to me. Raise the price of the F150 to support sales of a Ranger replacement, and rather than selling Rangers, you'll be selling Silverados and RAMs. The average F-150 stickers way up in $30,000 range now. Ford has an entry level car called the Fiesta, and an entry level CUV called the Escape. It also has an entry level cargo van called the TC. Why not an entry level pickup, Ford's biggest segment? Again, almost every and every F-150 on dealer lots around here is in high $30,000 range and up. The F-150 is already a very pricey pickup. There is lots of price room below for an entry level pickup with smaller footprint that is easier to park and takes up less room in garage and parking lots. I know when I'm parking wherever I don't park next to full sized pickups, but will park next to Ranger. It seems like (I know an illusion) full sized pickup is taking up two spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Offering something smaller than the current crop of oversize mid trucks sounds like a plan, maybe a Transit Connect pick up as incremental production to the van? Edited March 9, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Judging by sales data nearly 75% of all F150s sold are 1) Double cab, 2) EB V6 or 5.0 V8 and 3) XLT or better trim level. The reason why you don't see entry level single cab f150s is that Silverado is much cheaper and wants those sales whilst Ford chases the mid and high series double cab market. That's whay F150's ATPs are around $4,000 higher than Silverados. Maybe it can't be done, but a TC pickup in same price range as present TC seems like good idea to me. Small footprint, fuel mileage close to TC van, modest towing capacity, and voila, you have an attractively priced pickup for the thrifty set that don't like to spend a lot of money and want and need smaller footprint. Seems to me Ford could make a few bucks since it shares platform with TC and coud be built on new Transit line. And they expand their pickup market as some will be conquest sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Offering something smaller than the current crop of oversize mid trucks sounds like a plan, maybe a Transit Connect pick up as incremental production to the van? I woult think that Ford is looking at this possibilty and hopefully thinking about green lighting it. That small van is attractive and would look good as pickup also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 And then of course there's the fiesta van that could be modified to make another Bantam Courier pick up at an even lower price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) To expand on the idea that there is room below the F-150 price point Transit Connect Trend = $15,825 in UK Equivelent base model in US = $22,425 which is a 42% markup which includes the NJ mods Cheepest T6 Ranger Double Cab = $17,702 in UK Using same 42% markup = $25,084 estimated in US Cheepest F-150 SuperCab = $27,495 Cheepest F-150 SuperCrew = $32,370 Edited March 9, 2013 by Kris Kolman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 No, but they are getting expensive by the day. Simply comparing a new 2012/2013 F150 at my dealer with the same equipment as my 2006 F150 (yeah, 7yrs old), the MSRP was almost $10K more than the MSRP for my truck. I know they have many more standard safety and emissions features, but it was also the 5.0L, where as my F150 is the 5.4L and the biggest motor of that generation. I'm sorry, these trucks are getting too costly. Maybe $3K-$5K, or slightly more I could POSSIBLY see, but not no $10K. But as a whole....cars have been getting more expensive! I know my Mustang GT in 2006 was $29K without an auto and Shaker 1000 radio in it...it was fully equipped. The 2009/10 Mustang GT STARTED at 29K, but guess what? It had all the same options on it and you could get more of them on the newer models...I've seen loaded up GT Convertibles going for $46K or so... The sales of the F-series doesn't seem to be hurt by more expensive models over the years...so is it really an issue? The price of nearly everything goes up and very rarely goes down in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 To expand on the idea that there is room below the F-150 price point Transit Connect Trend = $15,825 in UK Equivelent base model in US = $22,425 which is a 42% markup which includes the NJ mods Cheepest T6 Ranger Double Cab = $17,702 in UK Using same 42% markup = $25,084 estimated in US Comparing pricing of the UK market vs the US market is unreasonable...due to taxes etc... Just look at the prices of the Focus here vs in the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.