Bob Rosadini Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not really! When GM gave up on the OTR heavy truck market in 1988, I was told some of their engineering staff went to GM Volvo, but most stayed with GM and worked on mediums and Isuzu joint venture trucks. GM continued to build class 8 vocationals until July 2009. Most of the individuals involved with the 560 program were reassigned and remain in the company. Ford on the other hand dropped out of class 8 in 1997. Quite a bit of their staff went to Sterling. Ford gave their mediums to Blue Diamond in 2002, and I am not sure how many with medium and heavy truck experience remain at Ford. I have no idea who is or will be working on the Avon Lake mediums. In any event, from a staffing standpoint there would likely be no difference between a GM or Ford takeover of Navistar. Navistar would most likely continue with it's own people under GM or Ford ownership. Which brings us back to my original point: the only way I think it makes sense for a high volume auto manufacturer to be involved with medium and heavy truck manufacturing is through a separate subsidy. And as many of us have said quite a while ago, Navistar would end up partnering with someone. Consolidation is no longer the exception in manufacturing sad to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 September Heavy Truck-up 33% vs 2012, up 21% YTD- guess the V-10 is doing its thing! Interesting no. will be what % of those gains is 650 vs 750-that will be the proof of the V-10's contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 Notice anything familiar in this pic? I saw the print ad in Crane & Rigging magazine and they showed a close-up of one of those babies! This truck is huge! It must be right to the class 7 max bordering on class 8! They're mounting 18 ton capacity cranes on these F750's!<br /><br />http://smileyliftingsolutions.com/boom%20trucks/boomtrucks.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Spent some time driving across northern New England last week. Saw a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram dealer in Maine with about 20 Promasters on the lot. I did not think they would hit the lots this soon, still do not see any in my area, but I have not been by the big Ram commercial dealer lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well, the local Ram dealer near me received their first shipment of Promaster vans. That front end will take some getting used to. Wonder how soon I will see some on the road. The Nissan NV full size vans, especially the tall versions are starting to become common around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 The full-size cargo van competition is going to be brutal! I hope Ford hedges their bets and maintains a FULL range of E-series alongside the Transit for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Hey, even the Promaster (space and accessibility wise) puts the E Series to shame. I do not yet know how it drives. From what I have seen of the Transit, anyone looking for cargo space and accessibility will easily take it over the E Series. Once the Transit hits the lots, I see the E vans fading quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Just saw a post on the BIGMACK website, that the big Cargo is now being sold in Russia. Based on all the YouTube videos of Russian "drivers" in action, talk about a proving ground. Bottom line as I see it, these Cargos are building miles in some of the toughest environments in the world. Hopefully "One Ford" will apply to big trucks too and while we may never see a big Ford tilt cab in the US, hopefully Ford is learning good things from these trucks that will be applicable to whatever ends up at Avon Lake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Last post in here was Bob R in October! It goes to show how little news is coming from Ford in medium duty! Some new tidbits: Ford leads Class 6 with 47 percent share (without even trying!) and it also leads class 4 & 5 with 67 percent! Ford is still putting E-series ads in municipal, light construction and towing magazines! Are you kidding me? I know they want to get rid of all the E-series, but those markets don't buy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packardbob Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 Makes me wonder what Ford could accomplish in Class 6 or 7 if they made an effort. Like a kid that gets Bs in school without trying, a little more effort might go a long way. That's good to hear about Class 4 and 5 too. I thought Ram was beating Ford in Class 4 and 5. Do you guys think the new 6.7 Powerstroke is beginning to sink in as good engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGolden Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 our company just bought a NEW 2011 f750 cc for $20k off the sticker price. not sure if it's news, but I just thought I would share what kind of deals are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 our company just bought a NEW 2011 f750 cc for $20k off the sticker price. not sure if it's news, but I just thought I would share what kind of deals are out there. Wow-a 2011 still in inventory-not surprised at a big discount on something 3 model years old. Joe '76-as we have learned, the marketing guys are clueless. Only thing I can think of is these ads get released to publishers as a blanket and they may have a broad list of trade periodicals.. I'll say this that the recent ads in HDT have at least featured 650/750's instead of some of the generic "fluff" they have in the past. PS PackardBob-yes-I too think that the 6.7's rep improves with time-plus the old saying.."time heals all wounds" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm not sure that advertising in municipal and light construction trade rags is necessarily clueless. Around here, many, including the largest, ambulance fleets are municipal, and I see a heck of a lot of E-series cutaways in the trades (primarily electricians and plumbers). Or am I not correctly understanding what you're meaning by municipal and light construction magazines? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm not sure that advertising in municipal and light construction trade rags is necessarily clueless. Around here, many, including the largest, ambulance fleets are municipal, and I see a heck of a lot of E-series cutaways in the trades (primarily electricians and plumbers). Or am I not correctly understanding what you're meaning by municipal and light construction magazines? Not to speak for Joe but I think what really set him off was the E series ads in towing publications. I agree with you-E series is a big player in light construction for sure-and municipals need such service vehicles. As an added thought, I see the Nissan E series look-a- likes in increasing numbers. Again don't know what their sales figures are but do I see them? Yes. Are they "old school"? Yes. Might some buyers be turned off by Transit? Yes. As for the towing industry, I know 650/750 sales numbers are much higher than Hino but I can say this-at least in this part of the country when it comes to ramp trucks (roll backs) Hino appears to be the new truck of choice. And ramp trucks appear to be the vehicle of choice versus boom lifts as in the old days in the towing industry. Therefore, if you are losing a market segment to Hino, (towing) would you advertise a van or an appropriate alternative to a Hino?-like a 650/750? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 As for the towing industry, I know 650/750 sales numbers are much higher than Hino but I can say this-at least in this part of the country when it comes to ramp trucks (roll backs) Hino appears to be the new truck of choice. And ramp trucks appear to be the vehicle of choice versus boom lifts as in the old days in the towing industry. Therefore, if you are losing a market segment to Hino, (towing) would you advertise a van or an appropriate alternative to a Hino?-like a 650/750? Yeah, advertising the E-Series in towing magazines does seem odd, if not outright clueless. Back in the day, E-Series "vanup" conversions were popular around here for trailer towing (mostly horse trailers and 5th wheels), but I don't think I've seen a new one of those in almost 20 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I see many Ram Promasters on the lots, but zero on the road. The Nissan NVs are all over the place - hardly any low roof, mostly mid or high roof. Local repair shop does alot of PM and oil changes for small fleets, they say the NV is easier to service than most. Local Ram dealer has two Promasters on the front line, they have not move an inch in 2 months. Dealers who sell Ford mediums look to be really dealing to clear previous year models from the lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I see many Ram Promasters on the lots, but zero on the road. The Nissan NVs are all over the place - hardly any low roof, mostly mid or high roof. Local repair shop does alot of PM and oil changes for small fleets, they say the NV is easier to service than most. Local Ram dealer has two Promasters on the front line, they have not move an inch in 2 months. Dealers who sell Ford mediums look to be really dealing to clear previous year models from the lots. For sure on the service issue. I hang out at a truck repair shop and across the yard is a mechanical contractor who always had a Ford fleet. His two newest trucks are NV's. My pals at the shop echo your comment on serviceability-of course as I'm a Ford guy they love to tweak me, but so far nothing but good things about the NV's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) Nissan has sold 11,000 NVs through November 30. Not awful (YTD sales of 14k Titans is awful), but hardly something to write home about, especially since that's a one-off product for the NA market. And I doubt that it gains leverage as Ford moves competing E-Series products into the Transit footprint. The Transit is more space efficient and will probably return better FE, which makes the business case for the NV a pretty sketchy one. Edited December 30, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Nissan has sold 11,000 NVs through November 30. Not awful (YTD sales of 14k Titans is awful), but hardly something to write home about, especially since that's a one-off product for the NA market. And I doubt that it gains leverage as Ford moves competing E-Series products into the Transit footprint. The Transit is more space efficient and will probably return better FE, which makes the business case for the NV a pretty sketchy one. Well Richard I hope you are right. And if you look at the big guys like FedEx and UPS, it would appear that the "EuroVan" concept has a future. but as Ifeg pointed out-Dodge Promasters? Big dealer inventories.. I think the big guys who look hard at the numbers will appreciate the attributes of the Transit, but Joe the Plumber..Sparky the Electrician?...."Give me a V-8 van-something I can beat the shit out of and not worry". I think its a good thing the E series will survive for a while as Transit is introduced. GM in the meantime is still sticking with their old vans right??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Here's my problem with the Dodge Promaster: Lots of space. Limited payload. I have doubts that there's a market for haulers of large, diaphanous product. And GM is switching to a rebadged Nissan NV, thus--stupidly--helping Nissan pay for their full size truck program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) Not quite correct, GM is going to rebadge only the Nissan NV200, not the larger NV1500/2500/3500. Seems they are content for the time being with their current traditional full size van, and only want the NV200 to provide their dealers with a competitor for the Transit Connect and whatever that small Fiat is that Ram will sell. Probably a smart move as I doubt there is enough profit in the small commercial van segment to warrant any more effort than an imported rebadge, which is essentially what Ford does and Ram will do anyway. The full size Nissan NV vans are the remnants of Nissans' brief and aborted effort to become a major player in the domestic class 2-5 commercial truck segment. A large part of the program was centered around a joint venture with Chrysler for a version of the Ram truck, but with Chrysler getting together with Fiat that idea went right out the window. A Ram based Titan was supposed to have been a reality by now (and who knows, maybe a Ram version of the large NV too?) but since the deal fell apart Nissan has had to market the current Titan much longer than planned. A crash redesign is in the works as we speak. Edited December 31, 2013 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Thanks for the corrected info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) And speaking of the Promaster, I got an up-close look at one the other day. Can't say I was all too impressed. Sure, it had interior volume, but I thought being front wheel drive it would have a very low floor. It doesn't! Agreed about capacity, seems it will be easy to overload past G.V.W.. Forget towing, even though that isn't much of a factor when it comes to vans. Hardware seems very cheap. The more I looked at it, the more I think Ram should have brought over the Iveco Daily. Edited January 1, 2014 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 There are many applications where there may be a need for volume but not a whole lot of weight. Dry cleaners, potato chip/similar snack food delivery, flower/florist wholesale. But I see no Promasters even in those areas. They seem to pick the full size NV vans more often than not around here. Familiarity of the form factor and low total cost of operation are the big factors. I hope that the Transit can take the low total cost of operation crown - that will mean a lions share of the market long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 And speaking of the Promaster, I got an up-close look at one the other day. Can't say I was all too impressed. Sure, it had interior volume, but I thought being front wheel drive it would have a very low floor. It doesn't! Agreed about capacity, seems it will be easy to overload past G.V.W.. Forget towing, even though that isn't much of a factor when it comes to vans. Hardware seems very cheap. The more I looked at it, the more I think Ram should have brought over the Iveco Daily. Iveco Daily certainly would have been the better product for the US market as it aligns more with Mercedes Sprinter and RWD Ford Transit and has heavier duty versions. However, Iveco is no longer part of Fiat Auto so it would make the arrangement more difficult to pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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