SoonerLS Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 legit P & D tractor What's a "P&D tractor?" I'm guessing the "D" is depot, but I'm just not familiar with that terminology. (This has been a very instructional thread, BTW. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 What's a "P&D tractor?" I'm guessing the "D" is depot, but I'm just not familiar with that terminology. (This has been a very instructional thread, BTW. ) Pickup and Delivery. In the less than truckload world (LTL) this is the local deliveries from the terminal to customers and pickups from the customers to the terminal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I'm having trouble picturing a Transit as a medium duty cab/chassis. It just doesnt strike me as looking tough or meaning business. I know when I first saw GM's first usage of the van nose as a medium duty cab I laughed like crazy! It was the ugliest thing I'd ever seen. After a year or so, they made some modifications and it either looked better or I just got used to it, but boy was it ugly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I don't think that Ford is going to use the Transit cab for a medium duty, and they cannot use the front subframe for medium duty. It is not big enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yes, tractor denotes towing. They really have no other use. I just hope that in the literature that the line "tractor equipped for towing" never appears. That is akin to stating that a car is equipped for driving. Of course it is - why restate the obvious. And I remember when the mainstay of the Roadway Express local pickup and delivery fleet was C Series single axle tractors - with pintle hooks. Short and manuverable for getting just about any trailer into a tight dock. As has been stated before, you ever get the feeling that non-truck professionals are involved in Ford's marketing efforts? Some might say--"that's just being Picky". I say when you are up against the likes of F-liner you had better be picky! I remember a while back there where ads featuring a 650/750 dump truck. the truck showed the tail gate release lever on the curb side of the box! Small detail? Yes-but it showed someone was clueless as they reviewed the copy prior to approving. Like .."tractor equipped for Towing" Right on with your .."car equipped for driving". Think these people ever read any of these posts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) Bob, I chalk it up to "one style fits all" marketing that is so common today. Over the years I have had some experience in marketing, enough to know you must tailor the message to the audience. Sure, you can market an F650 to a guy just starting to expand his landscaping business like you market a pickup - that is what he knows. But the meat of the market are those who have been at it a while and know the lingo. If you want to get serious consideration you need to at be familiar with the "culture" of your intended customers. Marketing mediums like an F150 might get you some sales, but it just puts more of a burden on the salesforce that knows the market to overcome another hurdle. In my field the " instant experts" that come in from totally different industries make more hurdles than the newbies who are just learining and are afraid to ask questions. Must be the same in marrketing. Edited April 10, 2014 by lfeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 As has been stated before, you ever get the feeling that non-truck professionals are involved in Ford's marketing efforts?UNQUESTIONABLY ! As long as Medium Duty was "married" to Navistar in the Blue Diamond "marriage" anyone inside the company associated with Medium Duty might has well have the plague ! Product planning, engineering, marketing, it didn't matter. Now, they are in the "Hey, we are actually going to build this vehicle ourselves and IN AMERICA !" mode. As I have said before, they have also looked at the numbers and realized that with Ford designed and built powertrains they can actually make a profit ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Ifeg/Ol'Wiz I hear you both-let's hope this is a new page going forward. In the meantime, $.125 a share! Better than a nickel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The two things I am most interested in are the GCW's and the option list. Keep in mind that the secret to these trucks profitability is Ford built powertrains and simplified options. I see these trucks targeted to more basic medium duty applications, not so much specialized vocational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The two things I am most interested in are the GCW's and the option list. Keep in mind that the secret to these trucks profitability is Ford built powertrains and simplified options. I see these trucks targeted to more basic medium duty applications, not so much specialized vocational. Right- and GVW to clarify the 14,000lb front. My guess is we won't see that with the 6.7/Ford trans. Again, hopefully a truck in transition to get AvonLake up and running. Let's hope something can be done with the 6 cyl Duratorque- in house, "One Ford"! then maybe the850 tandem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 Bob, I think they listen since you've been calling for a soda tractor for a couple years now! And what a great choice for hauling tiller aerial ladders! I see pics of Freighliner FL70's doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Bob, I think they listen since you've been calling for a soda tractor for a couple years now! And what a great choice for hauling tiller aerial ladders! I see pics of Freighliner FL70's doing it. Joe, Wouldn't the ladder, turntable, all the heavy outriggers to say nothing off the PTO requirement for the hydraulic pump require a much stronger power train? I'm assuming ladders don't have their own power source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Anyone know what a beverage tractor/trailer grosses out to? My hunch is that a beverage or P&D tractor might be about the largest tractor we will see from Ford. But again, that's the beauty of the new mediums. Simple spec's and limited options keep the price lower than the competition (and hopefully make the truck profitable). I think it's a sound plan, but I do see a couple of potential problems. First, while Ford may be able to offer a medium that is applicable to a large number of applications, the nature of the truck will keep it out of a lot of the more specialized vocactions (but those applications may not be profitable for Ford anyway). Second, both Freightliner and International have large plants in Mexico. It may be possible that they could source a basic spec. medium duty from those plants at a competitive price to Ford. Third, there is always the possibility that GM could use the same strategy as Ford by reintroducing their 6500 mediums with limited options and configurations. The assembly line at Flint where GM used to built mediums is vacant, GM still owns the Allison 1000/2000 series transmissions and the plant that produces them, their Duramax diesel would be adequate and they have gasoline engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 A 16 bay (common size around here) Hackney beverage trailer is at about 47,500 lb fully loaded according to their website. That would have the GCWR approaching 60,000. Again fully loaded, after the first few deliveries it would be less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 A 16 bay (common size around here) Hackney beverage trailer is at about 47,500 lb fully loaded according to their website. That would have the GCWR approaching 60,000. Again fully loaded, after the first few deliveries it would be less. Local Pepsi bottler in this neck of the woods uses such units with GMC 7500's On an another note, in industry news on BigMackTrucks site, there is a posting today that Ford announced two new Cargo refuse chassis for Brazilian market. Biggest is a 6 x 2 at 50,000 GVW the single axle version carries a 37,000 GVW. Tag/pushers sure are popular in the rest of the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Local Pepsi bottler in this neck of the woods uses such units with GMC 7500's On an another note, in industry news on BigMackTrucks site, there is a posting today that Ford announced two new Cargo refuse chassis for Brazilian market. Biggest is a 6 x 2 at 50,000 GVW the single axle version carries a 37,000 GVW. Tag/pushers sure are popular in the rest of the world! Tags with a pusher are lower initial cost, lower maintenance cost (one differential and no power divider), and lower drive friction (very slight fuel economy benefit). All of these are inportant in certain markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 A lot of fleets are looking into 6X2's these days. Lighter, less drag, less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Trust me guys- remember I'm a "senior"- I remember (as a kid of course ) back in mid 60's we had a bunch of single axle B models. We lengthend frames and installed Page and Page pushers with belt drives. they weren't around long. It also wasn't that long ago that I believe roadway bought a bunch of tandem tractors with dead axles. don't believe that lasted too long. Like I said, the concept seems to be very popular in SA and Europe. Not sure I would want to be driving one with 10" of snow on the ground, and even if you can lift the axle to transfer weight to drive axle, still a lot of drag. In any case no doubt we will see more of them as fleets try to lower cpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) On an another note, in industry news on BigMackTrucks site, there is a posting today that Ford announced two new Cargo refuse chassis for Brazilian market. Biggest is a 6 x 2 at 50,000 GVW the single axle version carries a 37,000 GVW. Tag/pushers sure are popular in the rest of the world!Okay, ya got me. What is a "6 x 2" and "tag/pusher" ? I have only heard of "pushers" in terms of buses/large motorhomes. Edited April 18, 2014 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 6 wheel truck with only one drive axle. Tag refers to the dead axle being behind the driving axle, pusher refers to the dead axle being in front of the drive axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 6 wheel truck with only one drive axle. Does that mean no duals? Or does it really just mean 3 axles total? Tag refers to the dead axle being behind the driving axle, pusher refers to the dead axle being in front of the drive axle. What are the advantages to one over the other? I would think a tag would be much easier since you don't have to run the driveshaft back to the rear axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Does that mean no duals? Or does it really just mean 3 axles total? What are the advantages to one over the other? I would think a tag would be much easier since you don't have to run the driveshaft back to the rear axle. As a rule the dead axle (be it pusher or tag) is usually equipped with duals as permitted axle weight is based on tire width ( x pds per inch of rubber on the ground. As for advantage of one vs the other IMO tag configuration gives you less tire scuff and slightly better manueverability when you lift the tag. Point of clarifiction, regarding question of "6 x 2", you are correct 6 x 2 means 3 axles or 6 "Wheel positions"-be they singles or duals. The "2" refers to number of driving wheels-be they singles or duals. Thus a 6 x 4 is 6 wheel positions, 4 are driving on a true tandem truck. Even if the truck had "super singles" (no duals) it would still be a 6 x 4. a single rear axle is a 4 x 2 or a 4 x 4 if it has a driving front axle. When it comes to trailers, triaxle trailers are becoming more popular in particular in Northeast where we have some very high GCW numbers based on a tandem tractor and a triaxle trailer. The triaxle trailer gives you more stability and better braking. In that application, the last axle is often a lift axle which makes the trailer more maneuverable with less tire wear associated with scuff in tight turns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 At the risk of showing my ignorance, I always thought those tag axles on the over-the-road cruise line buses/motor coaches were just that, tag axles. But unless I was hallucinating, I saw a bus turning slowly the other day -- in tight quarters I might add -- and those rear wheels were steering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 You were not hallucinating, MCI has had a castering (self-steering) tag axle for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Trust me guys- remember I'm a "senior"- I remember (as a kid of course ) back in mid 60's we had a bunch of single axle B models. We lengthend frames and installed Page and Page pushers with belt drives. they weren't around long. It also wasn't that long ago that I believe roadway bought a bunch of tandem tractors with dead axles. don't believe that lasted too long. Ah yes, the Page and Page "poor mans tandem". Not too many remember that there were belt drives on some tandems. As to the 6x2 configuration, I think we are going to be seeing some creativity on the highways over the next few years. The LTL carriers ars looking to squeeze out every penney from operating expenses they can. And with the federal mandates in class 8 fuel economy, that little bit of efficiency gained from switching from true tandem to a live/dead setup can help. Makes me wonder if someone might be working on an air or electricly shifted power divider so that true tandem is available when needed and single drive can be used for an easy cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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