New Light & Medium Duty News

[fordmantpw]

 

Mmmm, coffee......

[twintornados]

 

Mmmm, coffee......

[Joe771476]

Interesting that they're using GM gas engines and I didn't know UD got out.

[twintornados]

Interesting that they're using GM gas engines and I didn't know UD got out.

UD did not "get out" inasmuch as they got "bought out" by Volvo truck

[Bob Rosadini]

This is another example of someone jumping into a market with no apparent organization in back of them Which makes Ford's apparent reccomittment to class 6 and 7all the more credible.

[lfeg]

Is the low cabover market in the US starting to look up? While in Mexico a few weeks ago I saw a fair number on the roads including some from International (Navistar) and Isuzu. They do have some interesting trucks and busses down there. Saw quite a few short nose International busses I never saw before, and the Nissan NV350 (not the NV3500) is a pretty nice small van, about the size between the old E150 short and long wheel base units. Nice inside and it rode nice too.

[Bob Rosadini]

Is the low cabover market in the US starting to look up? While in Mexico a few weeks ago I saw a fair number on the roads including some from International (Navistar) and Isuzu. They do have some interesting trucks and busses down there. Saw quite a few short nose International busses I never saw before, and the Nissan NV350 (not the NV3500) is a pretty nice small van, about the size between the old E150 short and long wheel base units. Nice inside and it rode nice too.

I know many think this market is minimal- I must live in some unique pocket of the country as I see plenty around here. I would have to say that based on conversations, I think in many cases the driver behind these sales is the power train-namely .."reliable little in line diesels". I think the fact they are cab overs is perhaps a secondary plus to the good rep for example Isuzu diesels have.

 

As for TwinT's comment on an LCF out of Avon Lake, I would have to agree that such a product should be a natural- "economy of scale", This guy from Rainier says he is going to build "right hand steers" and other niche products then he says they are going to do this with 35 or 40 people. Hmnn- this guy who claims to have heavy experience building motor homes sounds like he is going to teach Mulally a thing or two. He might build them-but at what final cost??

 

Going back to Ford's last attempt at the LCF market, I am of the belief it was a great little truck-if only it wasn't powered by a V-6 version of the Power Stroke. think what that litlle truck would do today with a 3.5 or 3.7 gas or the new I-5 diesel! But again a Mazda cab- should not take that much effort to go to the Transit parts bin and come up with some good LCF designs out of that. Perhaps on down the road.

[twintornados]

...Going back to Ford's last attempt at the LCF market, I am of the belief it was a great little truck-if only it wasn't powered by a V-6 version of the Power Stroke. think what that litlle truck would do today with a 3.5 or 3.7 gas or the new I-5 diesel! But again a Mazda cab- should not take that much effort to go to the Transit parts bin and come up with some good LCF designs out of that. Perhaps on down the road.

 

Should not be a difficult task since all the hardware is already in place for such a vehicle....love the idea of 3.5L Ecoboost or 3.7L NA in the LCF...and the 3.2L Powerstroke would be a natural fit.

[bzcat]

UD did not "get out" inasmuch as they got "bought out" by Volvo truck

 

Volvo purchased UD in 2007 but UD withdrew from the US only recently. Volvo wanted to concentrate on conventional trucks and focus its marketing resources on Mack and Volvo brands. It didn't want to compete in the medium duty cab over market with Isuzu, which has lion share of the market in North America. Tough to take them on when it is all they do.

Edited September 19, 2014 by bzcat

[bzcat]

I know many think this market is minimal- I must live in some unique pocket of the country as I see plenty around here. I would have to say that based on conversations, I think in many cases the driver behind these sales is the power train-namely .."reliable little in line diesels". I think the fact they are cab overs is perhaps a secondary plus to the good rep for example Isuzu diesels have.

 

 

I think it is regional preference?

 

In Los Angeles, cab over medium duty is overwhelming favored over conventional medium duty because they are more compact. Isuzu dominates medium duty market here with Hino and Daimler FUSO in certain niche (e.g. refrigerated trucks). Ford LCF is also quite popular here. We do see some Frightliner and International conventional and F-650 on the road here but they tend to be limited in numbers

 

But I can imagine conventional medium duties are much more popular in other areas where roads are not as congested and loading docks at commercial buildings are wide as football field.

Edited September 19, 2014 by bzcat

[zipnzap]

I just came across this. It's from a couple years ago:

"There will be a transition period away from (Econoline)," Farley said at an event in Detroit to show off the Transit, a van set to go on sale late next year. "The cutaway business is extremely important, and we want to maintain customer choice while we go through that process. But eventually, we want to be down to one commercial van."

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/12/ford_executive_jim_farley_says.html

So how does this affect whatever the E-Series cutaway replacement is?

[RichardJensen]

It doesn't.

 

There will be a Transit cutaway. It will work very well for ambulances, RVs, and some transportation solutions.

 

There may be a medium duty cutaway for larger transportation needs, but the bulk of the E-Series medium duty is cube vans and other specialty uses that require not a cutaway but a cab/chassis or a stripped chassis.

[twintornados]

I believe that in short order, the E-Series chassis will fade away along with its twin-I-beam front end and frame hump over the rear axle....I have already begun seeing Transit full size vans running around my area....I thought, "Wow, they just hit the market and already they are showing up all over."

[RichardJensen]

Yeah, the E-Series chassis is due for replacement. But you're not going to get > 14k GVWR from the Transit.

[twintornados]

Yeah, the E-Series chassis is due for replacement. But you're not going to get > 14k GVWR from the Transit.

Which is why I believe Ford could do so much with a Transit Cab, constructed with Transit sheet metal, doors, glass, roof onto a floor pan designed to attach to the hard points of an E-Series chassis, you just may see that "old gal" continue with the twin-I-beam suspension and a reworked rear frame rail that goes straight over the rear axle instead of humped over it. 14K plus GVWR would be served well in vocational markets....

[RichardJensen]

That's not a good idea.

 

The Transit firewall almost certainly cannot accommodate the 6.7L PS without moving the cab so far back of the front axle center line that one may as well use the SD cab. What you want is to maximize the distance between the rear axle center line and the back of the cab, and you do that by pushing the cab as far forward as possible and you do *that* by putting a doghouse in the cab.

 

That essentially entails a custom cab.

 

Where the advantage to Ford comes in is that this custom cab can not only be used on the E350/450 MDs with 12-22k GVWR, it can also be used on the F650/750. You then fit all models with a fiberglass hood and fenders, and with the proper adjustments to the OHAP line, you can run E350s up to F750s on the same line for final.

 

What you want for a relatively low volume product like this is that everything you have to engineer in house should be shared with as many vehicles as possible, and the stuff that you use exclusively for that vehicle should either be able to be purchased at unit cost or with as little amortization expense as possible.

 

The engines and transmissions will be shared with Ford's SD range, the interior wiring, HVAC, possibly the seat frames, will be shared either with the SD or the Transit (seems likely to be the Transit, but who knows?).

 

The hood/fenders, if formed from fiberglass will probably be purchased from a supplier, and the frame and rear axles will also be purchased from a supplier, as will the interior trim. AFAIK, the setup costs for fiberglass molding and injected plastic molding (for unique interior parts) is not significant, and the frames are sold to other MD truck mfrs., so lower volume for E/F products is not necessarily going to make these parts significantly more expensive.

 

That leaves the cab sheetmetal only major piece of the vehicle that has to be amortized strictly over that vehicle's production run. And I think the compromises inherent in any other cab coupled with Ford's ability to keep costs down on all other aspects of the truck justify a unique cab, and I expect to see one.

Edited September 20, 2014 by RichardJensen

[Joe771476]

It occurs to me that the long body/high roof version of the Transit would need very little to no upfitting by the ambulance builders except for interior touches. On a side note, I had been thinking that a lowered/chopped and windowed version of the Transit would have been a great family-people mover/Toyota Sienna competitor, but I think I saw where Ford is using an extended Connect for a 7-person van. Interesting.

[sullynd]

I had been thinking that a lowered/chopped and windowed version of the Transit would have been a great family-people mover/Toyota Sienna competitor, but I think I saw where Ford is using an extended Connect for a 7-person van. Interesting.

Check out the Ford Tourneo Custom. (Which is the passenger version of the Transit Custom, the FWD Transit)

Edited September 20, 2014 by sullynd

[mnm]

The new rumor where I work is that the E cutaway has been extended to 2024. Supposed strong contract orders for the next 10 years.

[Joe771476]

Thanks for that Sullynd. That would indeed be a great alternative to the Sienna, which my daughter has to move her family around and which irks me when I see it, me being a Ford guy! But until now, Ford hasn't had much to offer. I will admit though that the Sienna is a rather nice vehicle.

[twintornados]

Thanks for that Sullynd. That would indeed be a great alternative to the Sienna, which my daughter has to move her family around and which irks me when I see it, me being a Ford guy! But until now, Ford hasn't had much to offer. I will admit though that the Sienna is a rather nice vehicle.

 

This is the same vehicle, currently on sale in Mexico as Custom Transit.

 

 

[zipnzap]

It doesn't.

 

There will be a Transit cutaway. It will work very well for ambulances, RVs, and some transportation solutions.

 

There may be a medium duty cutaway for larger transportation needs, but the bulk of the E-Series medium duty is cube vans and other specialty uses that require not a cutaway but a cab/chassis or a stripped chassis.

 

Judging from the article, it seems like he's using "cutaway" as shorthand for either a cutaway or chassis cab, i.e. incomplete vehicle without body rear of the B-pillar. (It also mentions things such as U-Hauls) I've seen this elsewhere in multiple press releases and from reps from Ford and GM. Also, what about replacement cutaway chassis for things such large E-450 based buses, with the higher GVW?

Edited September 25, 2014 by zipnzap

[RichardJensen]

As I've said before, my expectation is that Ford will develop a shared cab for the F650-750 replacement and the E450 replacement which will have a fiberglass front end.

 

This shared cab *could* use the Transit's doors, but would probably not use the Transit's greenhouse or floorpan and almost certainly could not use the Transit's firewall.

 

This vehicle could be configured in cutaway form for Class 4 passenger vehicles (i.e. small transit buses and Class A motor homes).

 

And since none of these vehicles would be sold in a conventional 'van' format, it would square with Farley's 'single commercial van' claim--although that claim seems to ignore the Transit Connect, which is not now and never will be based on the same platform as the full size Transit.

[zipnzap]

As I've said before, my expectation is that Ford will develop a shared cab for the F650-750 replacement and the E450 replacement which will have a fiberglass front end.

 

This shared cab *could* use the Transit's doors, but would probably not use the Transit's greenhouse or floorpan and almost certainly could not use the Transit's firewall.

 

This vehicle could be configured in cutaway form for Class 4 passenger vehicles (i.e. small transit buses and Class A motor homes).

 

And since none of these vehicles would be sold in a conventional 'van' format, it would square with Farley's 'single commercial van' claim--although that claim seems to ignore the Transit Connect, which is not now and never will be based on the same platform as the full size Transit.

 

Farley's quote was still specifically referring to FoMoCo's E-Series cutaway/CC transition and cutaways/CC's in general, though.

 

 

Within a few years, Ford marketing chief Jim Farley said he expects ambulance companies and other commercial customers to switch to the new Kansas City-built Transit van line. That would mean less work for the company's Ohio Assembly Plant in Avon Lake, a facility that had been set to continue producing cutaways -- half-built vehicles that other companies turned into service vehicles such as U-Haul trucks.

"There will be a transition period away from (Econoline)," Farley said at an event in Detroit to show off the Transit, a van set to go on sale late next year. "The cutaway business is extremely important, and we want to maintain customer choice while we go through that process. But eventually, we want to be down to one commercial van."

He added that he has no idea how long that transition will take. If commercial customers embrace the European-designed Transit, it may only take a year or two. If customers continue ordering large numbers of E-Series cutaways (another name for the Econoline), the Avon Lake plant will continue building them for several years.

Edited September 25, 2014 by zipnzap

[RichardJensen]

And, as I said, a cab that is the SAME as the F-650 and F-750 is NOT A VAN.