Lincoln needs a farewell address, not a new marketing plan

[Edstock]

By being not-quite competent in the luxury field for so very long, US luxury cars will have to be very good going forward to shake the stigma. It may be all of 2020 before they're really options to most Benz/BMW fans.

 

You are probably right. It will take as long as it takes. Product, dealers, training, seven years to 2020. Yup.

[ZanatWork]

On the positive side, that means the domestics, including and especially Lincoln, have to quit dipping a toe in the water and jump into the pool. Caddy tried, but GM was in horrid shape overall and they fumbled the ball. Ford/Lincoln have to realize that the Acura approach is too limited, which has seen that brand stagnate into a Buick alternative rather than a real luxury brand. The limitations have to end, giving Lincoln product beyond what has been a higher option level on Fords rather than vehicles that can define the marque.

I don't think 2020 is a negative year for that goal, I think that gives Lincoln time to make incremental gains that can fund the sort of transfomation the brand needs...but those gains must be solid, and most be very visible. Lincoln needs to stun the same reporters that have been inclined to write them off for so long. What some may call a "bias", others could see as a response to the mismanagement that hobbled Lincoln and killed Mercury that goes back a decade or more.

The attention was put onto the core brand, and Ford is almost unrecognizably better than a decade ago. Lincoln will always share some Ford DNA, but will only step forward as a brand when vehicles like the MKS mean more than "Taurus with upgrades". Lincoln's biggest problem may be that Ford has gotten so good.

[Edstock]

On the positive side, that means the domestics, including and especially Lincoln, have to quit dipping a toe in the water and jump into the pool.

 

Right now, we have to believe that Ford is making the necessary commitment, because, obviously, future plans involve secrecy.

 

IMHO, a good sign of that commitment to brand overhaul will be the effort Ford makes to get the dealers 'up-to-Lexus' in ambience and attitude. Time will tell.

 

[jpd80]

. Lincolns are clearly more than just tarted up Fords, the sheet metal and interiors are different but possibly not different enough

Ford is already paying for that cost of differentiated appearance, it just has to take the ideas further as evidenced by MKC.

So in one sense, adding more differentiation to Lincoln may not cost as much as some think, how Ford achieves that is

of more interest and I believe it starts in Lincoln's design room..

Edited April 27, 2013 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

One may observe that Ford is in a position to invest in faster-than-market improvements. The '13 MKZ is certainly a greater improvement over the '12 than that of comparable vehicles over their predecessors.

[2b2]

^ "not different enough"

AGREE!

 

hope the new Design Center will overcome any lack of aggressiveness on the part of the Approvers

 

...thought for today:

Max & Team should try doing a mockup both with and WITHOUT and grphics (grille, H&TLs) to see if the SHAPE is up to snuff

&

considering the "utterly" different MKC Concept,

wonder if they DID

[NickF1011]

One may observe that Ford is in a position to invest in faster-than-market improvements. The '13 MKZ is certainly a greater improvement over the '12 than that of comparable vehicles over their predecessors.

True, but that's mostly because of how far behind competitors the '12 MKZ was.

[jpd80]

One may observe that Ford is in a position to invest in faster-than-market improvements. The '13 MKZ is certainly a greater improvement over the '12 than that of comparable vehicles over their predecessors.

And this should be enough for now to get Lincoln buyers back into the showroom, fingers crossed for a great April result.

 

Ford is aware that Lincoln needs more differentiation but IMO, that's more application of styling to sheet work and interior than added costs with these items,

they're already different - just increase that difference a bit more.. MKC is a great example of what Ford wants to do with future Lincolns so let's hope that the

designers keep going with more new models..

Edited April 29, 2013 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

True, but that's mostly because of how far behind competitors the '12 MKZ was.

 

Yes. However, the contention has been that Ford either cannot improve Lincoln products fast enough period, or is not investing enough money to improve Lincoln products fast enough.

[NickF1011]

Yes. However, the contention has been that Ford either cannot improve Lincoln products fast enough period, or is not investing enough money to improve Lincoln products fast enough.

Well, I think most of that griping is in regards to the number of models, not the quality at which they are replacing them when they do finally arrive. Either way, neither argument really holds up to much scrutiny when looking at it from a practical perspective.

 

The notion that Lincoln can just throw money at the brand and have every model replaced inside of a couple years is just silly. No automaker turns over their entire lineup at that rate. Lincoln shouldn't be expected to either.

Edited April 29, 2013 by NickF1011

[silvrsvt]

The notion that Lincoln can just throw money at the brand and have every model replaced inside of a couple years is just silly. No automaker turns over their entire lineup at that rate. Lincoln shouldn't be expected to either.

 

Well didn't Ford do that from 2010 or so to 2013?

 

Well if you include refreshes also

[NickF1011]

Well didn't Ford do that from 2010 or so to 2013?

 

Well if you include refreshes also

Even at that accelerated rate you still had orphaned products that were never updated like Ranger and Crown Victoria.

 

What is Lincoln supposed to do? Refresh the Navigator and then replace it a year later when the Expedition gets replaced and its underlying tooling gets yanked out from under it? Ditto MKS. Ditto MKX. They will be replaced when their platform mates are. It makes zero sense to do anything with them before then.

[silvrsvt]

What is Lincoln supposed to do? Refresh the Navigator and then replace it a year later when the Expedition gets replaced and its underlying tooling gets yanked out from under it? Ditto MKS. Ditto MKX. They will be replaced when their platform mates are. It makes zero sense to do anything with them before then.

 

I wasn't arguing that point, just that Ford did it over the past couple years

 

The MKS already got a refresh...the MKX is getting replaced in the next 18 months...

[NickF1011]

I wasn't arguing that point, just that Ford did it over the past couple years

 

The MKS already got a refresh...the MKX is getting replaced in the next 18 months...

Well, in that regard, the only Lincoln not refreshed or redesigned in the past 3 years (besides the cancelled Town Car) is the Navigator.

 

2011 MKX

2013 MKS

2013 MKT

2013 MKZ

 

I think anything short of all-new and 100% different from its Ford platform mate is considered unacceptable to most. In the MKS/MKT's cases, I would agree though.

[ZanatWork]

I'm kind of puzzled by this. It was a better car to drive than the ES, its main competitor. Which competitors are you talking about?

True, but that's mostly because of how far behind competitors the '12 MKZ was.

[NickF1011]

I'm kind of puzzled by this. It was a better car to drive than the ES, its main competitor. Which competitors are you talking about?

Better in what regards? It may have had better road manners in some regards, but it certainly didn't have the level of content offered by the '12 ES. The current MKZ stacks up much better to the current ES on a feature-for-feature basis. It can also now at least be mentioned in conversations with vehicles from the likes of Audi without being entirely laughed out of the room.

[2b2]

...What is Lincoln supposed to do? Refresh the Navigator and then replace it a year later when the Expedition gets replaced and its underlying tooling gets yanked out from under it?

 

Ditto MKS. Ditto MKX. They will be replaced when their platform mates are. It makes zero sense to do anything with them before then.

I could easily be confused but...

from everything I've read it IS possible the Navigator WILL get a significant refresh THIS year,

Plus an all-new version not long after the nextgen ultra-light F-150 comes out in late-2014/very-early-2015

&

next year's "new" "MKS" has been said to be on the CD4+3

also next year's MKX has been said to be on CD4.2 (with styling quite a bit like the MKC Concept)

 

re: being "replaced when their platform mates are"

that hasn't held true for the MKC-Escape

and, per one online document, the Q3-2017 MKZ & Q3-2018 Fusion

 

If there's evidence to contrary, I'd really appreciate the link(s)

[silvrsvt]

I could easily be confused but...

from everything I've read it IS possible the Navigator WILL get a significant refresh THIS year,

Plus an all-new version not long after the nextgen ultra-light F-150 comes out in late-2014/very-early-2015

&

next year's "new" "MKS" has been said to be on the CD4+3

also next year's MKX has been said to be on CD4.2 (with styling quite a bit like the MKC Concept)

 

re: being "replaced when their platform mates are"

that hasn't held true for the MKC-Escape

and, per one online document, the Q3-2017 MKZ & Q3-2018 Fusion

 

If there's evidence to contrary, I'd really appreciate the link(s)

 

There is nothing indicating that the Expedition and Navi are getting refreshes for the 2014MY

 

The new MKS won't be out till early 2015 earliest...we just saw a mule a few weeks back

 

The MKX will be out next year sometime...MKC won't hit till later this summer..at the earliest.

[Edstock]

There is nothing indicating that the Expedition and Navi are getting refreshes for the 2014MY

 

The new MKS won't be out till early 2015 earliest...we just saw a mule a few weeks back

 

The MKX will be out next year sometime...MKC won't hit till later this summer..at the earliest.

 

Great product development security.

[SoonerLS]

I could easily be confused but...

from everything I've read it IS possible the Navigator WILL get a significant refresh THIS year,

It's possible, but it seems unlikely. New mills makes a lot of sense, but a significant refresh when we're only a few years from a complete platform change just doesn't seem like a wise investment.

re: being "replaced when their platform mates are"

that hasn't held true for the MKC-Escape

I'm not sure what your point is on this one. The MKC is a special case, being the first product of the Lincoln Design Studio, and it's a brand new vehicle, not replacing anything--and it's coming out a year after the Escape's new platform was introduced, so it's still on the leading edge of the platform's lifespan...

[NickF1011]

I could easily be confused but...

from everything I've read it IS possible the Navigator WILL get a significant refresh THIS year,

Rumored based on a photo of a powertrain test vehicle. Hardly what I'd call definitive.

next year's "new" "MKS" has been said to be on the CD4+3

also next year's MKX has been said to be on CD4.2 (with styling quite a bit like the MKC Concept)

Those are both also debuting with their redesigned Ford stablemates.

re: being "replaced when their platform mates are"

that hasn't held true for the MKC-Escape

Only because Lincoln was late to the game. There wasn't originally going to be a Lincoln version of the Escape at all. The originally planned Mercury version would have arrived sooner, but was canned as not being distinctive enough to be badged as a Lincoln instead.

and, per one online document, the Q3-2017 MKZ & Q3-2018 Fusion

Too far out to be considered reliable.

[silvrsvt]

Only because Lincoln was late to the game. There wasn't originally going to be a Lincoln version of the Escape at all. The originally planned Mercury version would have arrived sooner, but was canned as not being distinctive enough to be badged as a Lincoln instead.

 

I remember few years back that there was rumor that Lincoln would have gotten version of the Kuga, prior to the merger of that with the Escape. Then again there was also a rumor of all the Kugas being built in the USA along with the Escape....that would have been wild!

[jpd80]

I remember few years back that there was rumor that Lincoln would have gotten version of the Kuga, prior to the merger of that with the Escape. Then again there was also a rumor of all the Kugas being built in the USA along with the Escape....that would have been wild!

Apparently, Mulally really liked the Kuga and wanted to see it as a Lincoln but the plan of exporting from Germany proved unfeasible.

What Ford ended up doing with Kuga evolving into the North American Escape and the coming MKC is a more practical plan IMO..

[silvrsvt]

What Ford ended up doing with Kuga evolving into the North American Escape and the coming MKC is a more practical plan IMO..

 

Well it was the best course of action long term too...