Lincoln needs a farewell address, not a new marketing plan

[Edstock]

Lincoln can't sell a coupe anymore than Porsche can sell a pickup truck.

 

Ford Buyer would know about a Porsche pickup market, if anybody would. A Panameramino? Or would Panamerachero be better?

[jniffen]

Ford Buyer would know about a Porsche pickup market, if anybody would. A Panameramino? Or would Panamerachero be better?

I think Panchero would work.

Oh Cisco, oh Panchero!

[2b2]

^ if Ford doesn't use that, it'd be a good name for Jack-in-the-Box's new sandwich

[NickF1011]

Between now and the 2016 MKT(Explorer), I think it's pretty clear-cut. MKZ, MKC, MKX, MKS...the staples. The Navigator is beyond a MCE, it needs to be discontinued or succeeded by 2016. It's about to face the new GM utes and it's not fit in any form to take them on.

While I agree that the Navigator needs more than a MCE, I doubt it will see more than that in the next couple of years. There was that powertrain mule that was spotted, so it could at least be seeing something new under the hood and some slight cosmetic changes just for the heck of it before an all-new version is released alongside Expedition, both of which have apparently been given the green light already but won't be ready for a couple more years at least.

[BORG]

While I agree that the Navigator needs more than a MCE, I doubt it will see more than that in the next couple of years. There was that powertrain mule that was spotted, so it could at least be seeing something new under the hood and some slight cosmetic changes just for the heck of it before an all-new version is released alongside Expedition, both of which have apparently been given the green light already but won't be ready for a couple more years at least.

 

I have a hard time imagining an MCE on these vehicles which need a non-trivial amount of interior and technology upgrades. And you add Lincoln to that, which needs to further differentiate its design and you are in for a pretty big expense on upgrades that are awfully close to a new vehicle. I think we are just too close to a next-gen product and far too late for an MCE.

Edited April 16, 2013 by BORG

[NickF1011]

I have a hard time imagining an MCE on these vehicles which need a non-trivial amount of interior and technology upgrades. And you add Lincoln to that, which needs to further differentiate its design and you are in for a pretty big expense on upgrades that are awfully close to a new vehicle. I think we are just too close to a next-gen product and far too late for an MCE.

Well, if it does receive an MCE, I doubt it would be even as significant as the MKS/MKT. Could also be that the powertrain mule was simply testing for the next-gen all-new vehicles too. I do agree that anything at this point shy of an all-new vehicle would be lipstick on a pig and rightly skewered by the media.

[BORG]

Well, if it does receive an MCE, I doubt it would be even as significant as the MKS/MKT. Could also be that the powertrain mule was simply testing for the next-gen all-new vehicles too. I do agree that anything at this point shy of an all-new vehicle would be lipstick on a pig and rightly skewered by the media.

 

 

The Expedition is so outdated that it's still using switchgear 3-generations old with the now long-gone green dashboard lighting. It's so old that I took spy-photographs of the current vehicle in 2005 when I was picking up my dog in my new 2005 Lincoln Aviator. That's 8 years ago with absolutely no changes. The Mustang, Five-Hundred, and Freestyle had just been released, but the Fusion and Edge were not yet here. Nevermind that the Expedition is largely a reheated version of the 1997 truck. It's remarkably outdated right now, a time-capsule unlike any other.

Edited April 16, 2013 by BORG

[RichardJensen]

Whatever else may be said of the Expedition, it is NOT a reheated version of the '97 truck.

 

It's riding on an incredibly expensive and incredibly foolish one-off platform that was greenlighted under the Nasser regime, as part of Jac's attempt to hide the essential bankruptcy of the passenger car unit by throwing tons of money at other ventures (including BOF SUVs) presumed to be lucrative.

[Deanh]

Between now and the 2016 MKT(Explorer), I think it's pretty clear-cut. MKZ, MKC, MKX, MKS...the staples. The Navigator is beyond a MCE, it needs to be discontinued or succeeded by 2016. It's about to face the new GM utes and it's not fit in any form to take them on.

 

A Lincoln Mustang isn't happening. A Lincoln Focus is more likely than a Lincoln Mustang. Lincoln can't sell a coupe anymore than Porsche can sell a pickup truck. It's already a non-existent niche market that requires AWD, therefore non-trivial platform flexibility. And again, Lincoln can't sell a sports car, wrong company.

Im not sure i completely agree with the coupe comment, if Lincoln had released the MKR then I beleive it would have found buyers pretty easily based solely on how the vehicle looked.....I would have questioned the timing though, the MKZ is FAR more important than a "halo" right now...

Edited April 16, 2013 by Deanh

[Deanh]

Whatever else may be said of the Expedition, it is NOT a reheated version of the '97 truck.

 

It's riding on an incredibly expensive and incredibly foolish one-off platform that was greenlighted under the Nasser regime, as part of Jac's attempt to hide the essential bankruptcy of the passenger car unit by throwing tons of money at other ventures (including BOF SUVs) presumed to be lucrative.

and yet it was widely publicized that the profit Ford made on each Expedition was 10k plus.....

Edited April 16, 2013 by Deanh

[LSFan00]

Yeah, and the Panther was a foolish one off platform that they foolishly kept alive for 3 decades. Now that the massive resources that heretofore had been dedicated to exclusive Mercury products can be channeled to help fill up Lincoln over the next decade, no doubt it will have a full stable by 2023.

[rmc523]

The Expedition is so outdated that it's still using switchgear 3-generations old with the now long-gone green dashboard lighting. It's so old that I took spy-photographs of the current vehicle in 2005 when I was picking up my dog in my new 2005 Lincoln Aviator. That's 8 years ago with absolutely no changes. The Mustang, Five-Hundred, and Freestyle had just been released, but the Fusion and Edge were not yet here. Nevermind that the Expedition is largely a reheated version of the 1997 truck. It's remarkably outdated right now, a time-capsule unlike any other.

 

You mean the '03 model.

 

Im not sure i completely agree with the coupe comment, if Lincoln had released the MKR then I beleive it would have found buyers pretty easily based solely on how the vehicle looked.....I would have questioned the timing though, the MKZ is FAR more important than a "halo" right now...

 

I have to agree with this entire statement.

[Hugh]

and yet it was widely publicized that the profit Ford made on each Expedition was 10k plus.....

So was the Excursion and F-Series still today in what seems to be the new 'Full-Size' car. At least up here in Kanata. I don't think the large profits of the SUV and Trucks helped Ford in the long run when the Compact was ignored, the mid-size was carry over and just pushing tin. Ford has seemed to learned the facts of life again. Chasing profits at the expense of others so, you get rid of the dead weight.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

As a 3rd time Lincoln MKX owner I can attest to the fact that Lincoln moved the MKX up market quite a bit with the 2011 MCE, and the price jumped with it. My fully-loaded MKX in '07 stickered for $43K. My top-end 2011 & 2013 stickered for $53K. That's a $10K jump in pricing, and the base MSRP surged from $35K to $39K. This is vastly more expensive than the MKZ which is often loaded with incentives anyway. Yet the MKX is often Lincoln's bestseller, which tells you what potential there is in a Lincoln Crossover, especially an MKC and a next-gen MKX. And remember that the MKS is priced similarly to the MKX. There is tremendous potential in Lincoln once they get the right range of products.

 

And the interesting thing is that Lincoln managed to move pricing up by adding allot more value to the consumer in a simple MCE, one that does not vastly change the cost structure of production. They certainly added many more features to add value, but none of it is worth the $10K jump in pricing. I expect this to happen again with the next MKX, especially since MKC and MKZ pricing are falling in-line with the current MKX which doesn't quite make sense at the moment.

 

The part that doesn't make sense to me is that the MKC will likely start at about 40K. Who would pay this for a C1 platform vehicle? This would seem to force everything other future Lincoln CUV, or SUV have to slot in several thousand higher than the equivalent outgoing model. Nothing indicates to me that Lincolns should fetch this close of a price to an equivalent Audi. I use that company as an example because I recently visited an Audi dealer. The sales manager enthusiastically explained to me all of the premium design and build features of the brand. There were nearly none of a very long list in which I could put an equivalent check-mark for in the Lincoln column. These are not just top hats and features on VW's.

[silvrsvt]

The part that doesn't make sense to me is that the MKC will likely start at about 40K. Who would pay this for a C1 platform vehicle?

 

Where are you pulling this number from? I don't see the MKC going for more than what the MKZ starts at. If anything its going to be the same price if not couple grand cheaper. Its going to be the true entry level Lincoln.

[silvrsvt]

The part that doesn't make sense to me is that the MKC will likely start at about 40K. Who would pay this for a C1 platform vehicle?

 

Oh heres your answer....

 

http://bp3.ford.com/2013-Ford-Focus?branding=1&lang=en#/Models/Tech%5BTechnology:_136A620D9D9D0131D31A104200000000%5D

[ANTAUS]

And lets not forget, Volvo S40/V50/C30/C70 were also $40K if heavily optioned.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Where are you pulling this number from? I don't see the MKC going for more than what the MKZ starts at. If anything its going to be the same price if not couple grand cheaper. Its going to be the true entry level Lincoln.

 

I priced out escape titaniums and added the mark-up that MKZ's fetch over fusion Titaniums

[silvrsvt]

I priced out escape titaniums and added the mark-up that MKZ's fetch over fusion Titaniums

 

But your also not factoring the MKX pricing either...if the MKC starts at 40K, the MKX pricing is going to take a significant hike. The MKX and MKZ are both mid-sized products. I don't see the MKC commanding that high of a price. A 2013 Escape ti is about $36K fully loaded for an AWD model and starts around 30K. I don't see the MKC going for more than 36-37K, since the MKX starts at 39K itself (which I would expect to go up a couple grand with the next generation).

[NickF1011]

I'd expect MKC pricing to start about where the Acura RDX does, which is around $35K.

[Deanh]

The part that doesn't make sense to me is that the MKC will likely start at about 40K. Who would pay this for a C1 platform vehicle? This would seem to force everything other future Lincoln CUV, or SUV have to slot in several thousand higher than the equivalent outgoing model. Nothing indicates to me that Lincolns should fetch this close of a price to an equivalent Audi. I use that company as an example because I recently visited an Audi dealer. The sales manager enthusiastically explained to me all of the premium design and build features of the brand. There were nearly none of a very long list in which I could put an equivalent check-mark for in the Lincoln column. These are not just top hats and features on VW's.

hint...who will care in the slightest WHAT the car retails for if the lease payment is $499 a month...........welcome to the land of how to sell overpriced german cars......

Edited April 17, 2013 by Deanh

[BORG]

The MKC will almost certainly start around $34K to $36K, although I don't think it will top-off as high as the MKZ for example. So I'm thinking a range of $34K-$47K. The next MKX will probably range $39K to $55K.

[RichardJensen]

I think that's a fair assessment, if you use the rule of thumb that a CUV costs about the same as a sedan in the next vehicle class (e.g. C-sized CUV ~ CD-sized sedan)

[grbeck]

hint...who will care in the slightest WHAT the car retails for if the lease payment is $499 a month...........welcome to the land of how to sell overpriced german cars......

 

And how to get people to ignore the expensive out-of-warranty repairs and less-than-stellar reliability records of those same brands. Doesn't matter if you trade the car when the lease is up for a new one.

[calypsocoral]

umm

the LincStang(s) is/are aimed in the general direction of the 3-series and friends (ie the highest volume Lux segment) hopefully BOTH a sportsedan and coupe(cabrio)

just-imho Continental & Mark are not appropriate names

for these

& afaik the larger Rwd flagship has not been SAID to greenlit yet

 

Okay, so the "LincStang", as you put it, basically does what the LS was supposed to do 15 years ago? Yes, I know the LS was closer to the 5-series in size, but the concept is pretty similar. It could definitely work, since Ford no longer has to worry about stealing the thunder from Jaguar, but they need to realize it is going to take more than one generation for such a car to change peoples' perceptions, and not let it rot on the vine, like they did the LS.

 

I'll agree with you about "Continental" not being an appropriate name, as it would be better for a larger car. Nonetheless, I think if they do a coupe, the name "Mk IX" (pronounced "Mark Nine") would be appropriate. Not sure what to suggest for the sedan name, but maybe they can bring back the "Premiere" or "Cosmopolitan" nameplates?