Lincoln needs a farewell address, not a new marketing plan

[jpd80]

See, that's an interesting point.

 

Despite deriving much more revenue from their luxury division, GM still trails Ford in operating margin. To me, that suggests that GM is not investing wisely.

It's what I'd call a "fiscal comb over" where figures make GM look better than it really is, knowing GM's corporate culture,

this is just an extension of their other production policies designed to demonstrate company health through increased activity...

 

The fact is that GM desires to have Ford's 10-012% margins but is not prepared to do what it takes to get there.

the continued low brow approach to Chevrolet brand is preventing GM from achieving that goal and again,

that is culturally driven by GM's perception of Chevrolet and their resistance to elevate the brand.

 

GM wants Ford's efficiency but lacks, the plan, and the dedication to get there.

[aneekr]

Enjoy this David Kiley piece.

Thanks BORG, this was an enjoyable read. David Kiley deserves major kudos for this op-ed, one of the best summations of Lincoln's current predicament and its near future prognosis.

 

[jpd80]

I wonder if it ever occur to the critics that Lincoln's future depends more upon its impact in China than North American sales

[RichardJensen]

David Kiley deserves major kudos for this op-ed, one of the best summations of Lincoln's current predicament and its near future prognosis.

 

Don't bother, he's already sprained both shoulders patting himself on the back.

 

And 'best summation'? Anything that assures us that there is absolutely, positively, unequivocally no hope for the brand could not even remotely qualify as the 'best' summation of the current situation.

[jpd80]

Don't bother, he's already sprained both shoulders patting himself on the back.

 

And 'best summation'? Anything that assures us that there is absolutely, positively, unequivocally no hope for the brand could not even remotely qualify as the 'best' summation of the current situation.

Did anyone inform Kiley that Lincoln is launching in China in the near future?

[2005Explorer]

Also, it didn't sell worth a hoot. And neither did the Mark VIII (which was canceled that year).

 

The lesson from that: Differentiation doesn't always guarantee higher sales.

 

Differentiation didn't work very well with the MKT. They probably would have had about the same amount of success if they had just re-grilled and re-tailed the Flex instead of spending money making it into one of the most bizarre looking vehicles on the road.

Edited April 12, 2013 by 2005Explorer

[grbeck]

Also, it didn't sell worth a hoot. And neither did the Mark VIII (which was canceled that year).

 

The lesson from that: Differentiation doesn't always guarantee higher sales.

 

In all fairness, the Mark VIII was in a dying segment. All of the big domestic personal luxury coupes are gone now.

[akirby]

Differentiation didn't work very well with the MKT. They probably would have had about the same amount of success if they had just re-grilled and re-tailed the Flex instead of spending money making it into one of the most bizarre looking vehicles on the road.

 

The differentiation worked in that nobody compared it to the Flex. The lack of success was simply due to a poorly executed design in a very small market.

[LSFan00]

In all fairness, the Mark VIII was in a dying segment. All of the big domestic personal luxury coupes are gone now.

 

Yes, the domestic RWD El Do/Mark VIII are gone, but there is a healthy 2 door luxo market yet. It's largely serviced by Infiniti/Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Porsche (yes, really, their sales are around 10 times what they were 15 years ago).

 

Jaguar supposedly sells products in this segment too. I've not seen a newish one on the road in 5 years or so though (maybe they don't sell them in Texas).

[RichardJensen]

Yes, the domestic RWD El Do/Mark VIII are gone, but there is a healthy 2 door luxo market yet. It's largely serviced by Infiniti/Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Porsche (yes, really, their sales are around 10 times what they were 15 years ago).

 

Jaguar supposedly sells products in this segment too. I've not seen a newish one on the road in 5 years or so though (maybe they don't sell them in Texas).

 

But are their -coupe- sales much higher than they were 10-15 years ago?

 

Also, very few of their coupes are of the 'personal luxury' variety, replete with the seats that fold and slide forward for the graceless and seatbelt entangled clamber/fall into the back seat.

[RichardJensen]

In all fairness, the Mark VIII was in a dying segment. All of the big domestic personal luxury coupes are gone now.

 

Right, but the Conti segment was pretty solid at the time, and it was just not the right product for it.

[ZanatWork]

The coupe market is solid enough that Benz offers them in at least 2 segments, PLUS 3 levels of 2-seater.

BMW? 3 levels...all going even-numbered now, I believe. 2.4, 6.

Audi? 2 plus a 2-seater.

Infinit has 1, Lexus is supposedly re-tooling for a new SC.

While the coupe market is much less than it was, the vehicles still do draw certain types that sedans won't...and thet're obviously important enough that the luxury marques Lincoln is supposedly targeting keep them around, generation after generation.

The opposition to this type of vehicle from some posters still absolutely baffles me. Having at least one specialty performance/flagship to be on the pedestal in the showroom makes sense for essentially everyone in the higher-end car market. The buyers of these usually trade for a sedan/CUV or just add one when lifestyle changes demand it...there's plenty of logic to having at least one in the lineup.

[Fgts]

Caddy publicly stated that the CTS coupe is the #1 selling coupe in the segment.

[RichardJensen]

The opposition to this type of vehicle from some posters still absolutely baffles me.

 

It's very very very very very very very very simple.

 

Infiniti coupe sales in 2012: 13,016, down from 2011, which was also down from 2010.

[akirby]

The opposition to this type of vehicle from some posters still absolutely baffles me. Having at least one specialty performance/flagship to be on the pedestal in the showroom makes sense for essentially everyone in the higher-end car market. The buyers of these usually trade for a sedan/CUV or just add one when lifestyle changes demand it...there's plenty of logic to having at least one in the lineup.

 

It baffles you because you know nothing about making business decisions.

 

Is Audi or MB or BMW trying to rebuild their brand from the ground up? Or do they already have very successful mainstream (higher volume) entries in other larger segments?

 

If Audi did not have the A4/A6/A8 sedans and crossovers do you think they'd go out and build the S5 first? Of course not.

 

Nobody is saying that Lincoln should NEVER do one - only that it would be wasted money to do it now when they don't have competitive entries in most of the other segments. It's simply a matter of priority.

 

Do you at least agree that there is a bigger market and therefore more profit potential and more volume in small and midsized sedans and crossovers?

[jpd80]

There's nothing stopping Lincoln from looking at several markets where the potential for success is better.

Compacts, Lincoln chose MKC over MK Focus, but that does not mean that a future compact coupe is out of the question,

I'm actually pretty impressed that Lincoln has avoided engaging Cadillac directly, that would be playing their game by their rules.

Edited April 12, 2013 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

There's nothing stopping Lincoln from looking at several markets where the potential for success is better.

Compacts, Lincoln chose MKC over MK Focus, but that does not mean that a future compact coupe is out of the question,

I'm actually pretty impressed that Lincoln has avoided engaging Cadillac directly, that would be playing their game by their rules.

 

That's the key word, JPD.

 

As far as I can tell, no one here is opposed to such entries when the time is right.

 

Now is not that time. Good luck getting some people to buy into that, though...

[jpd80]

That's the key word, JPD.

 

As far as I can tell, no one here is opposed to such entries when the time is right.

 

Now is not that time. Good luck getting some people to buy into that, though...

And here's the kicker for me... Lincoln basic seems to be high series Ford originator + $8,000

V6 Premium = $26,000, therefore a V6 Lincoln coupe would start around $34,000

GT Premium = $34,000, therefore a V6 Lincoln coupe would start around $42,000

 

You'd want to be very sure of your market and that you are not substituting

other high series Mustang sales for those of Lincoln Coupes.

 

Mind you, both of those vehicles land in prime ATS and CTS territory at competitive prices..

A devilishly simplistic but ingenious way to put a spoke in the Alpha coupe's wheel?

Edited April 13, 2013 by jpd80

[papilgee4evaeva]

So are you saying MKR Coupe, JPD? Is that what I'm hearing from you? If so, then keep talking.

 

It would go without saying that a Lincoln Stang would have a completely different body. I would say that Lincoln could easily throw in a more supple interior. And then a full EB lineup... 2.7, 3.5, 5.0. :drive:

 

When the time is right, of course.

[papilgee4evaeva]

RJ, I want to ask you about a statement that you made some days ago.

 

You were wondering if Audi's MLB and Volkswagen's MQB were essentially the same since the rear tracks were identical (sidenote: the Passat track is 0.1" wider than the A4, and the front track is wider still)

 

But let's entertain that thought for a moment. Suppose the only real difference between MLB and MQB was engine orientation... basically, an engine cradle like you said. If that turned out to be the case, how big an investment would it be for Lincoln to reposition the engine compartment for longitudinal engines and transmissions? (They can still be F/AWD for all I care... it's been done by many)

[jpd80]

So are you saying MKR Coupe, JPD? Is that what I'm hearing from you? If so, then keep talking.

 

It would go without saying that a Lincoln Stang would have a completely different body. I would say that Lincoln could easily throw in a more supple interior. And then a full EB lineup... 2.7, 3.5, 5.0. :drive:

 

When the time is right, of course.

l believe that if Ford wanted to create a V6 and V8 coupe for Lincoln, it could do it at a fraction of the cost that GM spent developing the Alpha platform,

Edited April 13, 2013 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

RJ, I want to ask you about a statement that you made some days ago.

 

You were wondering if Audi's MLB and Volkswagen's MQB were essentially the same since the rear tracks were identical (sidenote: the Passat track is 0.1" wider than the A4, and the front track is wider still)

 

But let's entertain that thought for a moment. Suppose the only real difference between MLB and MQB was engine orientation... basically, an engine cradle like you said. If that turned out to be the case, how big an investment would it be for Lincoln to reposition the engine compartment for longitudinal engines and transmissions? (They can still be F/AWD for all I care... it's been done by many)

 

Your question, IMO, gets right to the very heart of the decision making process:

 

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/management/Bun-Comp/Competitive-Advantage.html

 

A company must be sure the consumer wants, understands, and appreciates the difference offered.

I don't know that longitudinal orientation of the engine provides a competitive advantage that justifies the cost.... (another cost would be a whole separate Lincoln specific transaxle housing capable taking a right angled input)

Edited April 13, 2013 by RichardJensen

[papilgee4evaeva]

l believe that if Ford wanted to create a V6 and V8 coupe for Lincoln, it could do it at a fraction of the cost that GM spent developing the Alpha platform,

 

Well, if they do, Mustang's supplying the cake. Lincoln would be the strawberries and whipped cream.

 

Your question, IMO, gets right to the very heart of the decision making process:

 

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/management/Bun-Comp/Competitive-Advantage.html

 

A company must be sure the consumer wants, understands, and appreciates the difference offered.

I don't know that longitudinal orientation of the engine provides a competitive advantage that justifies the cost.... (another cost would be a whole separate Lincoln specific transaxle housing capable taking a right angled input)

 

As far as engines, most would agree that the 3.5EB is constrained in transverse applications due to the transmission and due to, well, being transverse FWD. We talk about brand differentiation, and that would be one there... offering engines in the Lincoln that just wouldn't fit in the Ford.

 

I'll concede you the transaxle for the moment.

[RichardJensen]

most would agree that the 3.5EB is constrained in transverse applications due to the transmission and due to, well, being transverse FWD. We talk about brand differentiation, and that would be one there... offering engines in the Lincoln that just wouldn't fit in the Ford.

 

I'll concede you the transaxle for the moment.

But here's the thing:

 

Apart from discussions regarding driving dynamics or engine output, the real question is not the vehicle as engineering achievement, it's the vehicle as product in the marketplace.

 

Lexus was a calculated and customer-oriented brand launch that subordinated what engineers might design for themselves to what customers had a preference for.

 

Subsequently, BMW and Mercedes have recaptured sales leadership not by refocusing on engineering excellence, or driving excellence, but by expanding their lineups such that Mercedes now offers almost as many product lines as Ford.

 

Roughly 4k units separated the RX+ES from the better selling 3-Series+5-Series, but after that Lexus has only 6 other vehicles to sell, while BMW has 8 (Mercedes sells 12 total "lines", which counts the manifold variants of the C & E class as only two lines apiece)

 

BMW and Mercedes have succeeded by (1) more or less knowing what people want, and (2) offering it in as many possible forms as they can think of.

 

And what these vehicles have in common with each other is not some underlying Teutonic integrity, rather, in BMW's case it can be summarized (cynically) as an audible and barely felt 'thwap' on expansion joints, red IP lighting, long rectangular buttons, matte black plastic, the BMW logo, and clockwork cupholders that can't hold cups. If you put a check box on all those items, you've met customer expectations for "BMW"--but I'm being cynical. There's more to it than that, but that's what customers expect. Firmish ride and a "BMW" interior, as defined by those "German" things.

Edited April 13, 2013 by RichardJensen

[jpd80]

And this is what gets me about the plethora of offerings, looking across the various ranges of the more establish luxury offerings,

it appears that only three or four models at best in each brand carry the bulk of the sales in the US market, the rest are just fills.

 

So I'm thinking that formula probably follows through to Lincoln with MKC-MKZ-MKX being the work horses and MKS, Navigator

and other products as bit players...