Reuss wants a volume rwd Chevy

[silvrsvt]

Man seriously, does GM just throw darts at the wall when it comes to new product development?

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20130506%2FOEM04%2F305069974%2Freuss-wants-a-volume-rwd-chevy#axzz2SW1hUxQ6

 

 

[aneekr]

Man seriously, does GM just throw darts at the wall when it comes to new product development?

 

If so, the type of vehicle described in the Automotive News article (mass market car with the drive wheels in the proper position) hits a bullseye.

[PREMiERdrum]

A lightweight, rear wheel drive, affordable, youth-oriented vehicle?

 

Hmm...

 

[NickF1011]

If so, the type of vehicle described in the Automotive News article (mass market car with the drive wheels in the proper position) hits a bullseye.

Since all of their other recent RWD products have been such bulleyes, right?

[akirby]

"A really nice, light, rear-drive car that's inexpensive -- we know that rings a bell," the GM North America president told Automotive News last week. "That'd be a huge win for us if we had that."

 

Such a vehicle would compete with the Subaru BRZ and the Scion FR-S, the sibling rwd sports cars co-developed by Toyota Motor Corp. and Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd., which owns Subaru. Priced in the mid-$20,000s, the rwd cars have won critical praise since they were launched last year.

 

Wow. How in the world would that be a "huge win"? Magazine awards and accolades? Certainly not profit.

 

The BRZ and FR-S are selling less than 3K/month COMBINED.

 

Have they gotten amnesia about the last time they tried this? They were called Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice and they were not sustainable. Why in the heck would this be different?

 

GM still doesn't get it.

[NickF1011]

Wow. How in the world would that be a "huge win"? Magazine awards and accolades? Certainly not profit.

 

The BRZ and FR-S are selling less than 3K/month COMBINED.

 

Have they gotten amnesia about the last time they tried this? They were called Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice and they were not sustainable. Why in the heck would this be different?

 

GM still doesn't get it.

You'd also likely be able to wave goodbye to the Camaro outselling Mustang...

[FordBuyer]

With all the FWD sedans and utilities starting to look so generic, I commend auto companies that take some risk and go against the grain..in this case RWD vehicles that look and drive different than the slew of look alike FWD sedans and CUV's out there. If the big players contiinue to play it safe down the middle with no variation, look for the niche players like Tesla and Subaru to continue growing like crazy.

[NickF1011]

With all the FWD sedans and utilities starting to look so generic, I commend auto companies that take some risk and go against the grain..in this case RWD vehicles that look and drive different than the slew of look alike FWD sedans and CUV's out there. i]

Yeah. The Fusion looks so darn similar to the Camry and Accord. I just can't tell those clones apart!

If the big players contiinue to play it safe down the middle with no variation, look for the niche players like Tesla and Subaru to continue growing like crazy.

 

Subaru is growing like crazy? Most if its sales come from the CUV's you just chided for being boring, and frankly their CUV styling is far more conservative than many other options out there. Meanwhile, the BRZ is barely making a blip.

 

And Tesla? TESLA???

Edited May 6, 2013 by NickF1011

[FordBuyer]

What's with this BRZ bullshit? Subaru and Toyota can sell everyone they are given no problem. It's just they are allocated and in short supply, and big demand. If Subaru and Toyota had them, they could easily sell many more. And Subaru is the fastest growing auto company in N.A. by far. Just a few years ago, their big goal was 200,000 sales/year, and they are already way past 300,000 and looking at 400,000 and up. Yes, there are niches where the big boys don't want to compete. Tesla will outsell mighty GM in EV's probably, and at much higher price point. So get your facts straight.

[NickF1011]

What's with this BRZ bullshit? Subaru and Toyota can sell everyone they are given no problem. It's just they are allocated and in short supply, and big demand. If Subaru and Toyota had them, they could easily sell many more. And Subaru is the fastest growing auto company in N.A. by far. Just a few years ago, their big goal was 200,000 sales/year, and they are already way past 300,000 and looking at 400,000 and up. Yes, there are niches where the big boys don't want to compete. Tesla will outsell mighty GM in EV's probably, and at much higher price point. So get your facts straight.

 

 

If Toyota and Subaru could sell far more FR-S and BRZ's, guess what? THEY WOULD. They are car companies interested in selling cars. If they are making money on them (I would assume they are) then they'd be interested in selling as many as the market could support. That's how for-profit business generally, you know, make profits.

 

And again, most of Subaru's growth has come from increased sales of CUVs which you despise so much, not sedans, wagons, or sports cars.

 

And "outselling mighty GM in EV's" doesn't mean a thing when the EV market is so absolutely miniscule.

Edited May 6, 2013 by NickF1011

[akirby]

If I sold 1 vehicle last year and I sold 10 vehicles this year would that make me the fastest growing car company?

[NickF1011]

If I sold 1 vehicle last year and I sold 10 vehicles this year would that make me the fastest growing car company?

 

Recall a few years back when Mitsubishi made that claim. We see how well they're doing now.

[twintornados]

With all the FWD sedans and utilities starting to look so generic, I commend auto companies that take some risk and go against the grain.....

<cough-cough> Flex <cough-cough>

[OHV 16V]

 

If Toyota and Subaru could sell far more FR-S and BRZ's, guess what? THEY WOULD. They are car companies interested in selling cars. If they are making money on them (I would assume they are) then they'd be interested in selling as many as the market could support.

Can't speak for Toyota, but Subaru BRZs are indeed in short supply. They only earmarked 6000 originally for U.S. consumption, have gone through that, and are allocating another 2000 to try and meet demand.

 

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/12/subaru-brz-supply-boosted-for-us-market.html

[NickF1011]

Can't speak for Toyota, but Subaru BRZs are indeed in short supply. They only earmarked 6000 originally for U.S. consumption, have gone through that, and are allocating another 2000 to try and meet demand.

 

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/12/subaru-brz-supply-boosted-for-us-market.html

 

"High demand" for a vehicle that was only allocated 6000 units doesn't really mean a whole lot though. The short supply was artifically created by importing so few. It's not like they would have sold 30,000 of them by now if they imported that many. Even at 8000 units for the year, you're talking less than a month's worth of Forester sales.

Edited May 6, 2013 by NickF1011

[RichardJensen]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/gm-reports-high-demand-for-saturn-sky-and-pontiac-solstice-roadsters

[OHV 16V]

"High demand" for a vehicle that was only allocated 6000 units doesn't really mean a whole lot though. The short supply was artifically created by importing so few. It's not like they would have sold 30,000 of them by now if they imported that many. Even at 8000 units for the year, you're talking less than a month's worth of Forester sales.

I get where you're coming from, just pointing out that they were indeed in short supply. You indicated they could, when, at least for the time being, they actually can't just "sell more."

Edited May 6, 2013 by OHV 16V

[FordBuyer]

"High demand" for a vehicle that was only allocated 6000 units doesn't really mean a whole lot though. The short supply was artifically created by importing so few. It's not like they would have sold 30,000 of them by now if they imported that many. Even at 8000 units for the year, you're talking less than a month's worth of Forester sales.

 

Certainly sport coupes and roadsters have limited appeal (volume), but who is to say what volume would be for Toyota/Subaru twins if they had more to sell. 30,000 in total for both doesn't seem like a stretch especially after rave reviews. I would rather have a Mustang for sure, but that's just me.

 

As for Subaru, going from 175,000 to over 300,000 in last 4-5 years is a big deal. And I would argue that the Outback is a long car like station wagon that Subaru jacked up a couple inches. The Forester is the CUV, not the Outback to me eyes. And I believe the Outback is Subaru's best selling vehicle. Could be wrong, but if not certainly one of their top sellers. Subaru's big problem is keeping up with demand. And this has nothing to do with Ford that is doing very well and gaining market share this year. Myopic my foot...I have better peripheal vision than most that have eyes only for one brand, and one brand only....Ford. Kind of like falling in love with one stock....you greatly depreciate the variety that life has to offer and become narrow minded.

[OHV 16V]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/gm-reports-high-demand-for-saturn-sky-and-pontiac-solstice-roadsters

Good post. A perfect example of why Subaru's approach is a good one. Cause GM's practice of doing things like this and then over-building was ridiculous.

[akirby]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/gm-reports-high-demand-for-saturn-sky-and-pontiac-solstice-roadsters

 

Don't be silly. That's COMPLETELY different because those were.......um.....you see..........err.......um.........

[NickF1011]

Certainly sport coupes and roadsters have limited appeal (volume), but who is to say what volume would be for Toyota/Subaru twins if they had more to sell. 30,000 in total for both doesn't seem like a stretch especially after rave reviews. I would rather have a Mustang for sure, but that's just me.

30,000 seems like an amazing stretch. But even 30,000 units isn't exactly a hit. We pretty much consider the Flex and out-and-out failure for selling at that volume. And that's at signficantly higher prices and using a shared architecture and powertrains.

 

 

As for Subaru, going from 175,000 to over 300,000 in last 4-5 years is a big deal. And I would argue that the Outback is a long car like station wagon that Subaru jacked up a couple inches. The Forester is the CUV, not the Outback to me eyes. And I believe the Outback is Subaru's best selling vehicle. Could be wrong, but if not certainly one of their top sellers. Subaru's big problem is keeping up with demand. And this has nothing to do with Ford that is doing very well and gaining market share this year. Myopic my foot...I have better peripheal vision than most that have eyes only for one brand, and one brand only....Ford. Kind of like falling in love with one stock....you greatly depreciate the variety that life has to offer and become narrow minded.

The Outback was one of the originators for every CUV design on the road today! To categorize it as anything else is to not know what the CUV is. And that all still goes toward my point that almost all of Subaru's growth is coming from the CUVs you despise, not RWD niches. Subaru's other new vehicle, the XV Crosstrek (another CUV, surprise!) is outselling the BRZ somewhere around 5:1.

Edited May 6, 2013 by NickF1011

[jpd80]

Want to know why GM is suddenly interested in a small, light, low cost RWD car for Chevrolet?

 

The ATS is bombing, even with all the wonderful accolades, buyers are just not taking it up as expected.

[NickF1011]

Want to know why GM is suddenly interested in a small, light, low cost RWD car for Chevrolet?

 

The ATS is bombing, even with all the wonderful accolades, buyers are just not taking it up as expected.

I wouldn't say ATS is bombing, but it does appear that it's turning into another case in which GM put the cart ahead of the horse. They were hoping (and planning around the assumption) that it would be a home run hit for Cadillac instead of a solid double.

[FordBuyer]

30,000 seems like an amazing stretch. But even 30,000 units isn't exactly a hit. We pretty much consider the Flex and out-and-out failure for selling at that volume. And that's at signficantly higher prices and using a shared architecture and powertrains.

 

 

 

The Outback was one of the originators for every CUV design on the road today! To categorize it as anything else is to not know what the CUV is. And that all still goes toward my point that almost all of Subaru's growth is coming from the CUVs you despise, not RWD niches. Subaru's other new vehicle, the XV Crosstrek (another CUV, surprise!) is outselling the BRZ somewhere around 5:1.

 

Dang, your observation skills are lacking. The Forester is a stubby CUV like the Escape, and the Outback again is longer with greenhouse view identical to out of production Legacy station wagon if not longer. Only difference is Outbback was jacked up couple inches. Subaru's high priced CUV Tribeca sells like shit, and makes Subaru's sales up 20% or more month after month year after year more impressive. Their big problem is getting more production out of Indiana plant that builds the Outback. And they were doing that when domestics were losing market share.

 

Again with BRZ, you can't sell what you don't have. Go to Subaru dealer and try to find BRZ on lot. If you do., it will be gone in a few days at most. Toyota/Subaru underestimated sales rate big time. And of course there is limited appeal for sport coupes/roadsters. I thought everyone knew that. With economy imrpoving monthly, along with housing market and stock market, I would suspect sport coupes/roadsters will sell better with extra money lying around, and Toyota/Subaru underestimated the economy obviously.

[NickF1011]

Dang, your observation skills are lacking. The Forester is a stubby CUV like the Escape, and the Outback again is longer with greenhouse view identical to out of production Legacy station wagon if not longer. Only difference is Outbback was jacked up couple inches. Subaru's high priced CUV Tribeca sells like shit, and makes Subaru's sales up 20% or more month after month year after year more impressive. Their big problem is getting more production out of Indiana plant that builds the Outback. And they were doing that when domestics were losing market share.

Getting a little testy, aren't we?

 

Did I say somewhere that all CUV's look the same? Wait, I thought you said that. The Outback is as much a CUV as the Forester and is EPA classified as a Small Sport Utility. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32509

Again with BRZ, you can't sell what you don't have. Go to Subaru dealer and try to find BRZ on lot. If you do., it will be gone in a few days at most. Toyota/Subaru underestimated sales rate big time. And of course there is limited appeal for sport coupes/roadsters. I thought everyone knew that. With economy imrpoving monthly, along with housing market and stock market, I would suspect sport coupes/roadsters will sell better with extra money lying around, and Toyota/Subaru underestimated the economy obviously.

Again you keep missing the point. Even without supply constraints the BRZ just isn't going to sell all that well. As you said yourself, there's limited appeal for sport coupes. Saying that companies are going to get any significant growth by exploiting these small niches is just incorrect. I mean, that was your original point in mentioning Subaru, wasn't it? Just pointing out that most of their growth is coming from established mainstream sectors, not niches.

Edited May 6, 2013 by NickF1011