karlhenk Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130617/AUTO0102/306170018/Ford-applies-lessons-U-S-crisis-Europe-upswing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Doin' what they gotta do. Now, if the EU economy doesn't totally collapse . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 “It’s fair to say there are a lot of parallels. I think the analogies are remarkable,” de Waard said. “The retail share, which is what we also focused on in the U.S. with all the new products, we’re following that trend in Europe.” ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ... bbbbbuuuut EU products are better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Way to early to tell if EU is going to make it ! Remember, Ford said that if EU isn't profitable by 2015, more cuts would be coming. Those cuts would be extremely hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Way to early to tell if EU is going to make it ! Remember, Ford said that if EU isn't profitable by 2015, more cuts would be coming. Those cuts would be extremely hard to do. Ford really is at the mercy of Europe's financial woes and until things stabilize or get better there, all Ford can do is cut loss making areas and focus on products buyers want and hang on for better times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 bbbbbuuuut EU products are better! how are the Mondeo, Focus,escape and C-max selling in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They don't sell the Mondeo in the US. But since you asked, all are adding market share, just like the CD3 Fusion, C170 Focus and CD2 Escape. It's not about the platform, it's about the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I think the NA/EU product arguments are getting old. This is 'One Ford now so can we move on? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4d4evr-1 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 according to Det. news today total market down 5.+%, Ford down 0.3%. Ford gained market share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ford really is at the mercy of Europe's financial woes and until things stabilize or get better there,all Ford can do is cut loss making areas and focus on products buyers want and hang on for better times. Before the woes excuse. 2000 loss of 1.115 billion 2001 profit of 268 million 2002 loss of 725 million 2003 loss of 1.626 billion 2004 profit of 65 million 2005 loss of 381 million After the woes excuse 2009 loss of 226 million 2010 profit of 182 million 2011 loss of 27 million 2012 loss of 1.753 billion 2013 loss of ???? 2 billion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Before the woes excuse. 2000 loss of 1.115 billion 2001 profit of 268 million 2002 loss of 725 million 2003 loss of 1.626 billion 2004 profit of 65 million 2005 loss of 381 million After the woes excuse 2009 loss of 226 million 2010 profit of 182 million 2011 loss of 27 million 2012 loss of 1.753 billion 2013 loss of ???? 2 billion I think the point he was making was that even if Ford implements the right plans now (which they obviously hadn't in the past) then they still might not be out of the woods if the overall market doesn't at least stabilize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) Before the woes excuse. 2000 loss of 1.115 billion 2001 profit of 268 million 2002 loss of 725 million 2003 loss of 1.626 billion 2004 profit of 65 million 2005 loss of 381 million After the woes excuse 2009 loss of 226 million 2010 profit of 182 million 2011 loss of 27 million 2012 loss of 1.753 billion 2013 loss of ???? 2 billion Interesting that you neatly left out 2006, 2007 and 2008, the very time Ford NA was on its knees. Anyone would think you are trying to revise the truth...... Ford Europe: (Before European financial / currency problems) 2006 - profit of 469 million 2007 - profit of 997 million 2008 - profit of 1.58 Billion Europe was actually good for Ford when it was most needed and only started to sour as Europe headed into financial problems that reach back to four years ago The point I was making is that all Ford can do now is control its costs and deliver products buyers want. Anyone who has studied Ford's recent history would know that Ford Europe went through reformation before the USA and that those changes began to bare fruit in 2006/07/08 but by 2009 Europe's currency problems began to plague car makers like Ford as Europe struggled in the aftermarket of global slowdown and problems within Europe's member states that saw revenue begin to plummet in late 2008. . Edited June 19, 2013 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Interesting that you neatly left out 2006, 2007 and 2008, the very time Ford NA was on its knees.Anyone would think you are trying to revise the truth...... Ford Europe: (Before European financial / currency problems) 2006 - profit of 469 million 2007 - profit of 997 million 2008 - profit of 1.58 Billion Europe was actually good for Ford when it was most needed and only started to sour as Europe headed into financial problems that reach back to four years ago The point I was making is that all Ford can do now is control its costs and deliver products buyers want. Anyone who has studied Ford's recent history would know that Ford Europe went through reformation before the USA and that those changes began to bare fruit in 2006/07/08 but by 2009 Europe's currency problems began to plague car makers like Ford as Europe struggled in the aftermarket of global slowdown and problems within Europe's member states that saw revenue begin to plummet in late 2008. . Just exaggerating for effect . I don't feel too guilty as I posted all the numbers a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Anyone who has studied Ford's recent history would know that Ford Europe went through reformation before the USA It was nowhere near sufficient! That overhaul made EU *barely* profitable when running at over 100% capacity. That's *not* sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 Remember, Ford said that if EU isn't profitable by 2015. Ford learned, under promise - over deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 It was nowhere near sufficient! That overhaul made EU *barely* profitable when running at over 100% capacity. That's *not* sustainable. True and Ford NA was not profitable. So, they picked the battles they could win. Fix NA, get Lincoln back on track, oops 2008. Delays but getting back to sustainable profits and EU gets its turn in the barrel. Hard lessons learned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) It was nowhere near sufficient! That overhaul made EU *barely* profitable when running at over 100% capacity. That's *not* sustainable. Maybe true but too many things happened in a relatively short period of time, just as EUCD production was peaking nicely, wham, the market changed and everyone wanted smaller vehicles while EUCD sales crashed and Ford Europe didn't respond. I think that's the point, when larger vehicle sales began to seriously fall FoE should have been actively reducing volume but as discussed previously, Ford's commitment and accepting of local government funding managed to lock them into continuing nonviable production - that's the key here compared to the North American retrstructuring Edited June 20, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Just exaggerating for effect . I don't feel too guilty as I posted all the numbers a few months ago. The same figure we have been quoting here for years. And welcome too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Maybe true but too many things happened in a relatively short period of time, just as EUCD production was peaking nicely Definitely true: If you can't do better than 3% margins running at over 100% capacity, your business is not healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Did Gent ever run at 100% between 2005 and 2008? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 I think they did the year that the S-Max launched. But it was ~240k units w/5000 employees, so, you know, problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Yea... lots of Flemish guys with bad mustache standing around drinking Chimay and pushing carts around 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 Yea... lots of Flemish guys with bad mustache standing around drinking Chimay and pushing carts around Sounds like the setup for a Monty Python sketch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) Definitely true: If you can't do better than 3% margins running at over 100% capacity, your business is not healthy. In 2008-09, their revenue stream went from $10 or 11 billion down to around $7 billion a quarter in the space of 12 months. And not for one moment do I think FoE was run efficiently, due to taking local govt funding and placating local labour laws and Unions, I'd say costs were excessive due to those factors and the perceived necessity to build in expensive countries like Germany, Belgium and Britain. The seeds were sewn ages ago but Ford's lack of desire to tackle these issues much earlier caused a massive blow out in costs when the market rapidly shrunk at the end of 2008. FoE was found out big time and still struggled to properly supply rest of the world markets. Edited June 20, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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