RichardJensen Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) The Tundra is not a rival. And even if you want to get picky and assert that this thing is a 'rival' in some strict technical sense, it is only *one* rival. The Titan, Ram, Silverado and Sierra all have fully boxed frames. My guess is that the writer, being lazy, made a claim based on stuff he remembered to be true eight years ago, and ran with it, rather than investing the two or three minutes required to verify his statement. Edited November 18, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 "Colum Wood With AutoGuide from its launch, Colum previously acted as Editor-in-Chief of Modified Luxury & Exotics magazine where he became a certifiable car snob driving supercars like the Koenigsegg CCX and racing down the autobahn in anything over 500 hp." The writer is not a truck guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 'certifiable car snob' instead of a 'certified car snob.' Freudian slips rule! Also, I love his namechecking, and placechecking. Why not throw in a reference to the "Nordschliefe" while you're at it, super cool dude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'm sure whatever they do the frame will remain very strong. The only reason that a lighter frame strikes fear into the heart of a longtime Ford fan is because the last time they attempted to lighten the F-150 frame in the early 80's this is what we got... Swiss cheese anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Metallurgy has come a long way in 35 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Metallurgy has come a long way in 35 years. I don't doubt that it has, but I was just pointing out the last attempt to lighten the frame. With that said, you might be able to get by just fine today with a frame that "looks" like that 1980 frame by using very strong steel, but it would create a headache for the marketing department. My guess is if they actually did an open channel they would leave out the big holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Maybe Transit's integral C Section design gave Ford the direction it needed to make significant change without hurting strength and also giving up-fitters more latitude to add different packages to the rear of F150.. A frame that can be stamped and assembled by Ford in house? Edited November 19, 2013 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I doubt that. 1 - there aren't a lot of F150 upfitters. You don't see many F150s with different backs on them. A few utility box backs is all, and I think most of them prefer the Super Duty trucks. 2 - I'm sure this is being done for weight savings, and I think the cost/benefit for using a more expensive steel (either by using tailored blanks or using stronger steel) changed, given new CAFE requirements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Apparently, the Tundra is the rival referenced in the article. Don't shoot me, I just quoted the article. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://toyota-alabama.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/triple-tech.jpg&imgrefurl=http://toyota-alabama.com/toyota-truck-triple-tech-frame-advantage/&h=722&w=756&sz=121&tbnid=ZeVHfagecG776M:&tbnh=97&tbnw=102&zoom=1&usg=__57rDABdtewcWvYuxNNFob3C8oWU=&docid=YYTiWhmVfaLm6M&sa=X&ei=4oOKUsTwOKbL2gWNzIGgCw&ved=0CE8Q9QEwAw no shots fired, but I can without doubt, absolutely GUARANTEE that Ford will NOT be lowering the bar by using Toyota as a target........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-bird Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I doubt that. 1 - there aren't a lot of F150 upfitters. You don't see many F150s with different backs on them. A few utility box backs is all, and I think most of them prefer the Super Duty trucks. 2 - I'm sure this is being done for weight savings, and I think the cost/benefit for using a more expensive steel (either by using tailored blanks or using stronger steel) changed, given new CAFE requirements Whatever Ford does with the frame I hope they dont introduce the flex that a Toyota frame has. Whether the frame is strong with the flex or not it turns me right off of a Tundra. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstwister Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 Wonder if this non-boxed frame will allow the f 150/navigator/expedition to use all the same driveline components for a change? I'm under the assumption that the suvs will keep their irs. But from there forward being the same will go a long way to allowing drivetrain commonality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 So many people, mostly guys, drive F-1's as "cars", just to pick up TV's or cases of beer. At same time, they complain of the MPG, even though they know what they are into. So, can see why making change to save weight. If one really needs the capacity, F-250+ are still avail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Wondering if Ford is coming out with an "I" beam frame...that would be incredibly strong and lightweight... Edited November 22, 2013 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Wondering if Ford is coming out with an "I" beam frame...that would be incredibly strong and lightweight... Interesting... But I would think an C-Beam would have much better packaging advantages without giving up too much in return. In the end Boxed, I, C could all be made to work... Just a matter of optimizing the plate material and thickness, combined with doublers where needed. I'm certain there are plenty of areas to be optimized... A fully boxed frame can be beat if your willing to put in the work and complicate the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 C channel can also be formed from a single piece of steel. H beams have to be welded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 So many people, mostly guys, drive F-1's as "cars", just to pick up TV's or cases of beer. At same time, they complain of the MPG, even though they know what they are into. So, can see why making change to save weight. If one really needs the capacity, F-250+ are still avail. Yup, vast majority in my area carry a sack or two of groceries and a styrofoam minnow bucket on a normal day. Add a case of beer on the weekend and thats about it. I am all for weight loss however they can come up with it. The 150's are so capable now that its ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 C channel can also be formed from a single piece of steel. H beams have to be welded. ? W-Sections (Structural "I-Beams" which are an H in shape) are rolled from a single piece of steel - not welded. I don't see it as practical for a truck, but it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 My mistake. But the underlying objection remains the same: It's more expensive and less adaptible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 (edited) Agreed. Larger sections, such as you would see on long span bridges, and occasionally on buildings, are welded - they're called plate girders as they are made from plates welded together. The last building I worked on had several 48" deep plate girders. Edited November 23, 2013 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Kolman Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 In a way I see Ford trying to adapt some aerospace techniques to optimize frame strength... Which often adds complication and cost, but comes with weight advantages. Engine nacelle pylons and wing ribs would seem to have similar design requirements. Here is what the upcoming Bombardier CSeries engine pylon looks like. The question will be balancing producability costs against strength and weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Agreed. Larger sections, such as you would see on long span bridges, and occasionally on buildings, are welded - they're called plate girders as they are made from plates welded together. The last building I worked on had several 48" deep plate girders. I'll have to file that bit of info away. Then, if I'm not mistaken, plate girders have ribs or braces--not sure of the right term--periodically running between the top and bottom plates perpendicular to the middle plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 The top and bottom members are called flanges, and the section in between is the web. The ribs your asking about are called web stiffeners, and can be used on both plate girders and more standard steel members. They're only required in either if the engineer says so.* I'm just an architect, I let my structural engineers decide if they want them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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