blazerdude20 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 http://m.green.autoblog.com/2014/03/20/ford-install-ge-wattstations-60-locations-north-america/?post=3&icid=autobloggreen_river_article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Its a start anyway. What is the charge time on the Focus EV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) 4 Hours @ 240 volt. from dead flat energi is about 2.5 hours @ 240 volt from dead flat (that's with a home charger - much less with a Focus EV station) Since there are way more energi Fusion energi C-Max out there, I would think this is of more advantage to those owners than the handful of Focus EV owners. Edited March 30, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 BTW how many supercharger stations does Tesla have? how long ode it take for a Tesla to charge? http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger Tesla Superchargers allow Model S owners to travel for free between cities along well-traveled highways in North America and Europe. Superchargers provide half a charge in as little as 20 minutes and are strategically placed to allow owners to drive from station to station with minimal stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Keep in mind the supercharge stations are using 400 volts. Most homes in the US are wired for 115/240 while commercial buildings are typically wired for 230/460. You won't see home charging of that capability (not would it be necessary in most cases) for some time, if at all. High power charging stations will become more common as the EV movement gains traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Keep in mind the supercharge stations are using 400 volts. Most homes in the US are wired for 115/240 while commercial buildings are typically wired for 230/460. You won't see home charging of that capability (not would it be necessary in most cases) for some time, if at all. High power charging stations will become more common as the EV movement gains traction. Keep in mind ford doesn't announce installations of chargers in people's homes. PHOTOS Ford ready to install GE Wattstations at 60 locations in North America Mar 20th 2014 5:30 PM EDT By Sebastian Blanco Upper-level Ford executives are sending mixed messages about the power of plug-in vehicles, but in the companies parking lots across North America, at least, the signal is clear: come on and charge your EV. Today, Ford and GE announced that the Blue Oval will be installing Wattstation chargers at its Dearborn HQ and will then add units at more than 60 locations across the US and Canada, including "offices, product development campuses and manufacturing facilities." If you're a Ford employee, then you get four hours of free charging a day. That should be plenty to top off any of the company's plug-in vehicles, even the Focus Electric, and the time limit encourages drivers to swap cars at lunch, because Ford wants to encourage charging station sharing and get more employees to plug in. Ford doesn't mention the DOE's Workplace Charging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Keep in mind ford doesn't announce installations of chargers in people's homes. Which company is cash flow positive, has profitable products, and is led by a man who *isn't* busy tilting at windmills? Yeah, yeah, we know "innovator's dilemma" yadda yadda yadda. Save the time typing a response. We all know what you're going to say already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Keep in mind ford doesn't announce installations of chargers in people's homes. Meaning what exactly? My point was that those ultra quick chargers use a power source that is flat out not available in most neighborhoods. Not at the houses but in the actual subset electrical grid to said neighborhoods. It's prohibitively expensive for existing homes and not relevant for most customers. Might be able to plan for it in new developments though. Ford is supporting the level 3 SAE standard so they will be able to charge using the superchargers as well. Am I missing your point Biker? (Not being an ass, I'm serious) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) Keep in mind ford doesn't announce installations of chargers in people's homes. And in the rest of that article: Ford doesn't mention the DOE's Workplace Charging Challenge by name in the release (available below), but we suspect these Wattstations are part of that project. Ford was one of the founding members, joining the Workplace Charging Challenge on January 31, 2013. On that date, the Ford Motor Company and Ford dealers had over 1,750 charging stations installed on company/dealer property. Seems like there's a lot more charging stations out there than most know about... Edited March 30, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Am I missing your point Biker? (Not being an ass, I'm serious) Allow me. How can you miss something that doesn't exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Meaning what exactly? My point was that those ultra quick chargers use a power source that is flat out not available in most neighborhoods. Not at the houses but in the actual subset electrical grid to said neighborhoods. It's prohibitively expensive for existing homes and not relevant for most customers. Might be able to plan for it in new developments though. Ford is supporting the level 3 SAE standard so they will be able to charge using the superchargers as well. Am I missing your point Biker? (Not being an ass, I'm serious) What is the point of boasting about installing 60 charging station that often aren't available to the public, and that aren't level 3 chargers? When will Ford build cars that support rapid charging? what is the point of supporting a rapid charging standard if your cars don't support it? Ford isn't pushing electric vehicles this is more of PR stunt than the company building truly building an electric car infrastructure. Which company is cash flow positive, has profitable products, and is led by a man who *isn't* busy tilting at windmills? Yeah, yeah, we know "innovator's dilemma" yadda yadda yadda. Save the time typing a response. We all know what you're going to say already. Profits today don't guarantee profits tomorrow, - Disruptive innovations are worse initially in traditional terms (3.5-inch hard discs had lower capacity than 5.25-inchers), so they struggle to find a market and find a marginal one, but technology often advances faster than the market needs, so they become good enough along that dimension (capacity, in this example), and their other advantages come in to the picture (portability, price, reliability, etc), so they take over from incumbents. Firms that are well-managed and do the right thing (like listening to customers, investing resources to build higher-performance products that yield higher profits, going by data, etc) often can't handle disruptive innovations, and lose. If anything, the "right" thing may be counter-productive. This is why it's an innovator's dilemma. Richard how long does it take for a new company to become a profitable? by your logic of profitability being the most important index of success or value company's that have some of the highest market capitalization Today should have never started. By your own definition Ford profitability over the last 2 decades has been extremely poor when compared with VW and Toyota. Many companies have been profitable but had no future a decade later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Why should Ford or any other full range auto mfr go out of their way to promote the use of electric vehicles? Ford has the technology to build them if and when the market demands it. Tesla does it because it's their entire business - they have no choice. Once again you're confusing your own personal desires with sound business decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 If you're not profitable today you won't be around in a decade so it won't matter. Ford is not only chasing profits but they're insulating themselves from future market downturns by diversifying their lineup and having competitive vehicles available in all of the important market segments and by managing their fixed costs through plant closings and consolidations. Name one future trend that Ford is not in position to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 It's funny. I went to delete the irrelevant portions of Biker's post in order to type a reply, and my browser deleted his entire post. My browser, apparently, has better judgment than I do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 (edited) ....Name one future trend that Ford is not in position to answer. The return of the station wagon in North America?? Edited March 30, 2014 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 The return of the station wagon in North America?? Oh, that's easy. They'll just equip the Edge with nothing but limited service spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Name one future trend that Ford is not in position to answer. The return of the station wagon in North America?? Already there, it's called a Flex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 And it's awesome. But the wife rarely lets me drive it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 The Flex would be the perfect vehicle if it had sliding 2nd row doors instead of swing, was about 4" longer and 3" wider interior-wise, and had a cleaned up console area for more usable space. Bonus for removable 2nd and 3rd row seating, and especially a true flat floor along with a fold flat floor that doesn't break when real weight is put on it. Softening up the ride a little would also be nice, or some kind of adaptive setup. Back on thread track... ...holy lordy EV's have a ways to go to replace liquid fuel vehicles. 30 minutes on a Tesla supercharger for a mere 150mi range??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 30 minutes on a Tesla supercharger for a mere 150mi range??? Yes, better than the technology used to be, but that's still nowhere close to where it needs to be to become adopted as a mainstream alternative to gas-and-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yeah, we either need some breakthroughs to happen, or, we're going to be another 20 years before electric will be viable for people that need their vehicle to be able to take trips longer than 200-300 miles. You're talking about adding on another hour to potentially two hours for a 300 mile trip...that's...just not feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yeah, we either need some breakthroughs to happen, or, we're going to be another 20 years before electric will be viable for people that need their vehicle to be able to take trips longer than 200-300 miles. You're talking about adding on another hour to potentially two hours for a 300 mile trip...that's...just not feasible. I think the range issue will be overcome sooner than the charging rate issue. But hey, you never know with science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I sure hope so. I'm not unopposed at all to full electric, but I'm not willing to give up range, refill time, performance, initial purchase cost + a small reasoable upcharge for battery, etc. And this really is the problem right now. Want range? No problem! We'll put in a bigger battery - if we even can - and charge you more for it. That doens't work? Well, we'll do a 'supercharger'. Wait, you won't wait at the supercharger for your turn, and then take 30 minutes or more to only go possibly another 150mi? Don't buy our product. For short trip drivers, it's viable. For anyone needing a vehicle that will be expected to take trips out into the far 100's and beyond, it's not. The future can't get here fast enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Quick-change powerpacks seem to be the only way to shorten the charge time to the 5 minutes or so you get with gas---but that would require an SAE standard battery pack and an SAE standard swapping mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I spend a non-trivial amount of time going to gas stations currently - often in the dark, early in the morning (and it seems like below zero most of the time in the last few months). The ability to fuel my car in my garage overnight and not have to make a special trip, and get out in the cold/dark/snow/rain/wind to fuel up, seems like a pretty decent tradeoff for adding an extra 1/2 hour to a trip on the rare occasion I drive 3 hours non-stop to somewhere. Edited April 1, 2014 by jpvbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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