New Head Stylist at Lincoln

[2b2]

^ can be taken any number of ways, imho, Rmc

I prefer

they didn't want to make a big deal of it becuz Max has Not really been demoted at all,

which would make it rather difficult to "talk-up" D.W.

 

& forgot

...Also, they are still talking about the MK naming scheme...

something I "discovered" while playing with ideal lineups;

if they keep MucK on the lower series and use real Names on coming higher series vehicles;

all of a sudden the MucK-letters make sense:

by decreasing ovl

MKZ

MKX

MKE (GrandC-Max based electric & energi, CAR not MPV)

MKC

 

Navi stays of course, MKT replaced by AviaTor

Continental(s) for top sedan(&variants)

just need a Name for the LincStang(s) imho

Edited April 11, 2014 by 2b2

[RichardJensen]

Sounds to me like he's still in charge of design, but overall management of the brand has been handed over to someone else

 

Though the way they quietly made this switch seems odd

 

There are a couple odd bits:

 

1 - he's still in charge of much more expensive exterior design, so you'd think that if he was pushing for greater differentiation, then assigning him exclusively to exterior design wouldn't exactly reduce costs, as he'd be lobbying for expensive deviations in either case (interior stuff's cheap: you can more than recoup the costs of premium materials, and the molded stuff has comparatively inexpensive tooling).

 

You can't make the case that he now answers to someone else, whereas he was independent before, because he wasn't independent before. He still had to answer to Ford's executive leadership, probably Joe Hinrichs (and before that Mark Fields).

 

2 - it seemed a bit odd to have a designer in charge of the overall brand experience, as that entails a lot of management nonsense that many (most?) designers have neither the skills nor the disposition to perform.

[Anthony]

Video is required.

Looks like Ford's press conference is on Wednesday (Mark Fields is actually making the keynote too).

 

I'm only hitting Thursday's Press Day. I generally like hitting the last day because there's still press conferences and I can still see what released the day before. As fun as it sounds, it's flippin' exhausting. I did both days a couple years, but unless there's REALLY cars I want to cover on both days, I usually just hit the last day.

 

Not a super exciting show this year as far as new stuff being revealed. I guess the Charger / Challenger refreshes and the Hellcat will make for an interesting Thursday. But otherwise it'll mostly be stuff we've already seen.

[Anthony]

Ford's press conference is at 9:45 on Wednesday. There is no Lincoln press conference.

[rmc523]

 

There are a couple odd bits:

 

1 - he's still in charge of much more expensive exterior design, so you'd think that if he was pushing for greater differentiation, then assigning him exclusively to exterior design wouldn't exactly reduce costs, as he'd be lobbying for expensive deviations in either case (interior stuff's cheap: you can more than recoup the costs of premium materials, and the molded stuff has comparatively inexpensive tooling).

 

You can't make the case that he now answers to someone else, whereas he was independent before, because he wasn't independent before. He still had to answer to Ford's executive leadership, probably Joe Hinrichs (and before that Mark Fields).

 

2 - it seemed a bit odd to have a designer in charge of the overall brand experience, as that entails a lot of management nonsense that many (most?) designers have neither the skills nor the disposition to perform.

Well that's what I was getting at - I never said he was independent - but rather it kinda seems to me like he's been put in a more "appropriate" place, for a lack of a better way to say it - a place where he can focus more upon the design direction of the brand, and leave the overall brand experience to this Woodhouse guy

[RichardJensen]

Well that's what I was getting at - I never said he was independent - but rather it kinda seems to me like he's been put in a more "appropriate" place, for a lack of a better way to say it - a place where he can focus more upon the design direction of the brand, and leave the overall brand experience to this Woodhouse guy

 

actually, although I quoted you, I was addressing other posters and the guy in the Bloomberg article that suggested this was an effort to make it easier to backslide.

[SoonerLS]

I'm only hitting Thursday's Press Day. I generally like hitting the last day because there's still press conferences and I can still see what released the day before. As fun as it sounds, it's flippin' exhausting.

Oh, I just wanted video of you getting kicked in the marbles, because, you know, you just can't find that kind of entertainment on the Internet.

[Anthony]

Oh, I just wanted video of you getting kicked in the marbles, because, you know, you just can't find that kind of entertainment on the Internet.

If I get kicked in the marbles by a Ford exec, you'll hear about it before I get a chance to post a video. Haha!

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

I'm still undecided about Max as a designer. The Caddys he did we're groundbreaking for at least that brand. But, the post-Max update on the CTS looks better to me than his iteration. I like the MKZ a lot, especially given the styling limitations with FWD, but stories differ on how much influence he had on the design. I dislike the MKC as much as I've ever disliked a design (there are certainly uglier cars, and it's remotely possibly that there are some less original, but they aren't with a brand I care about) and stories also differ about his influence on that design.

[NickF1011]

I'm still undecided about Max as a designer. The Caddys he did we're groundbreaking for at least that brand. But, the post-Max update on the CTS looks better to me than his iteration. I like the MKZ a lot, especially given the styling limitations with FWD, but stories differ on how much influence he had on the design. I dislike the MKC as much as I've ever disliked a design (there are certainly uglier cars, and it's remotely possibly that there are some less original, but they aren't with a brand I care about) and stories also differ about his influence on that design.

 

The MKC strikes me as more Lexus-ish than Cadillac-ish or BMW-ish. Softer lines, elegance instead of muscle. I personally think it's the best looking Lincoln since the LS. It's certainly the most cohesive design they've had in some time.

[Frankenford]

IMO current automobile design resembles that of the late 50's where every surface of the car must somehow contribute to the over all "effect" of the effort. There is no room for subdued. Every flank must have a crease and a splash of chrome, a rear end must somehow convey as important a design effort as the front, automobile front ends must convey multiple things with one effort - I AM HERE, I exude luxury, I am unique, I am SOMETHING.

 

Everything was so loud.....interiors included. It's all the same now.

 

Lincoln once changed this in '61. Their designs went quiet. People were ready for peace and quiet.

 

I think they have an opportunity to be quiet again. Whomever runs the business will be successful if they tone down design to let people relax.

[rmc523]

I'm still undecided about Max as a designer. The Caddys he did we're groundbreaking for at least that brand. But, the post-Max update on the CTS looks better to me than his iteration. I like the MKZ a lot, especially given the styling limitations with FWD, but stories differ on how much influence he had on the design. I dislike the MKC as much as I've ever disliked a design (there are certainly uglier cars, and it's remotely possibly that there are some less original, but they aren't with a brand I care about) and stories also differ about his influence on that design.

 

I don't remember how long he was with Cadillac for, but (depending on that length of time), I honestly don't feel any Cadillac design has been that "groundbreaking" for the last 7 years or so - they've had the same "Art & Science" design theme since the '03 CTS - sure, it's become more refined, but they've all looked very similar to me.

 

That said, I don't know how much leeway he'll be given at Lincoln. I, for one, disagree with your opinion of the MKC - I think it looks fantastic - as Nick said, one of the more cohesive/attractive efforts in some time - but to each his own!

 

 

The MKC strikes me as more Lexus-ish than Cadillac-ish or BMW-ish. Softer lines, elegance instead of muscle. I personally think it's the best looking Lincoln since the LS. It's certainly the most cohesive design they've had in some time.

 

I definitely agree with you there, but then again, I generally prefer the softer, more elegant look compared to edgier designs.

 

IMO current automobile design resembles that of the late 50's where every surface of the car must somehow contribute to the over all "effect" of the effort. There is no room for subdued. Every flank must have a crease and a splash of chrome, a rear end must somehow convey as important a design effort as the front, automobile front ends must convey multiple things with one effort - I AM HERE, I exude luxury, I am unique, I am SOMETHING.

 

Everything was so loud.....interiors included. It's all the same now.

 

Lincoln once changed this in '61. Their designs went quiet. People were ready for peace and quiet.

 

I think they have an opportunity to be quiet again. Whomever runs the business will be successful if they tone down design to let people relax.

 

I'm on board with you here - I think designers are throwing way too many surfacing elements and creases into designs that make them look overstyled. Obviously some character lines and surfacing elements are needed, but for me, keeping them under control creates a more classy/elegant design.

[NickF1011]

I'm on board with you here - I think designers are throwing way too many surfacing elements and creases into designs that make them look overstyled. Obviously some character lines and surfacing elements are needed, but for me, keeping them under control creates a more classy/elegant design.

 

Character lines can be great if they are given some sense of purpose. Do they contribute to the overall completeness of the vehicle? Is that line based on or tied to other design elements of the vehicle in some way? For example, when a side crease moves into the fenders and joins another element in the light cluster. Or is the arc of the line replicated by an arc on the interior?

 

Lines just for the sake of breaking up a flat panel don't always come off too well.

[630land]

I heard from the internet that Ford is bringing back the tooling for the Mark VII for a new MK9, with a 4 door version like the MkVI. Also heard that the Panther tooling was saved and will bring back Town Car! Along with a new Galaxie, Custom 500 PI, and Maurauder.

 

Lastly I heard that tooling for the 1979 full size Lincoln was unpacked for return of the Bill Blass Continental on a true full size 127" wb.

The 460 tooling will also be brought back for these new flagships!

 

 

;-)

Edited April 14, 2014 by 630land

[Edstock]

I'm on board with you here - I think designers are throwing way too many surfacing elements and creases into designs that make them look overstyled.

 

Yes indeed. Thanks to CAD/CAM, the cost of doing composite-curve dies has plummeted. In the battle to establish a style edge, "just because you can doesn't mean you should" gets forgotten. In a way, it's always been this way; Edsel Ford once remarked that a competitor was "trying too hard", but these days, it's way too easy to wind up with a joke of a Juke.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

IMO current automobile design resembles that of the late 50's where every surface of the car must somehow contribute to the over all "effect" of the effort. There is no room for subdued. Every flank must have a crease and a splash of chrome, a rear end must somehow convey as important a design effort as the front, automobile front ends must convey multiple things with one effort - I AM HERE, I exude luxury, I am unique, I am SOMETHING.

 

Everything was so loud.....interiors included. It's all the same now.

 

Lincoln once changed this in '61. Their designs went quiet. People were ready for peace and quiet.

 

I think they have an opportunity to be quiet again. Whomever runs the business will be successful if they tone down design to let people relax.

 

So well said, and it sums up why I so dislike the MKC. Lincoln's greatness has been so much defined by changing styling trends that became excessive and derivative. Most famously they did this in 1961 with the Continental. But the first generation Conti did that, too. I'd also say the 1952 Capri and the original Zephyrs did more of the same. The current trends of lots of surfacing and sharpened character lines are as excessive and tired, to me, as any I'm aware of in automotive history. The MKC seems to be a poster child of "one more copy of everyone else, with the corporate face stuck on - so you'll know who it is". It's seems as un-Lincoln in character as does Jefferson Davis.

[RichardJensen]

Lincoln's greatness has been so much defined by changing styling trends that became excessive and derivative.

 

Actually, that has been a trend of Ford Motor, period, because you can include the '49 Ford, the '86 Taurus, and--arguably--the '98 Focus as well.

 

However, when the time is right for a new design language, it's going to appear. You can't force the issue. As Jon Gertner puts it in his history of GE Labs, 'Too early is the same as being wrong.'

 

The first company to produce cars in that new style will probably be the one that has not only good designers but good management of those designers.

[silvrsvt]

 

Actually, that has been a trend of Ford Motor, period, because you can include the '49 Ford, the '86 Taurus, and--arguably--the '98 Focus as well.

 

Err it was a '99 (in EU?) and a 2000 in NA...

[NickF1011]

It's seems as un-Lincoln in character as does Jefferson Davis.

Well, nothing that has screamed "I'm a Lincoln" has been too successful over the past 20-30 years, so perhaps it was time to imitate someone else for a change.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Well, nothing that has screamed "I'm a Lincoln" has been too successful over the past 20-30 years, so perhaps it was time to imitate someone else for a change.

None of the successful Lincoln's ever screamed Lincoln, besides arguably the fist Continentals which had some Zephyr elements. I think Horbury and others completely missed the whole point of Lincoln when they tried hard to define some rigid design elements to mindlessly stamp on Ford products. The late prewar Lincoln's had almost nothing in common with the models that preceded them. The Capri was also very fresh. The 1961 Conti was so fresh that there is little but emblems to tie it to the same company that manufactured the 1960 model. The Mark ii looks like nothing in the previous lincoln stable. The Mark iii didn't resemble the Mark ii.

 

Historically, They had split grills, but it was only for several years in the late prewar. They had oval grills dominated by massive bumpers (Capri). They had rectangular grills with mesh-work and understated chrome surrounds (61...). They had vertical grills with vertical slats and massive chrome surrounds (Mark iii). The memorable ones have all been clean designs and leading edge for at least the American industry. The mostly forgotten ones were quite the opposite.

[mustang84isu]

Did anyone read this in Automotive News today?

 

Lincoln plans to show a concept at the Beijing auto show on Easter Sunday, but has not set a production date.

 

I wonder what it could be...

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140417/GLOBAL03/140419824/lincoln-maps-out-china-strategy-sees-learning-lab-for-world

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

Interesting, something that foretells the next MKS (hopefully with a name change) would be about right in timing.

[NickF1011]

Interesting, something that foretells the next MKS (hopefully with a name change) would be about right in timing.

MKS and MKX are both possibilities. I would think they are both candidates for export sale in China as well, so either would make sense. With Edge being closer to production than the next Taurus though, I would lean more toward MKX.

[RichardJensen]

None of the successful Lincoln's

 

Okay, first of all, there have been many stylistically successful Lincolns and few commercially successful ones. So let's be careful about imposing wishes for a time when Lincoln was a Ford plaything on a time when Lincoln has to hold up its end of the business.

 

Secondly, you can't push a rope up hill. If you try to force stylistic change ahead of the zeitgeist, you get the '96 Taurus. Until Ford (hopefully) or some other company introduces the next design era, you're going to have to accept Lincolns that are of the times.

 

The 50s Lincolns, including the Mark II were very much of the times. The Mark II was, like the '55-56 Thunderbird with which it bears a strong family resemblance, merely a good example of the overall design trends of the times.

Edited April 17, 2014 by RichardJensen

[rmc523]

MKS and MKX are both possibilities. I would think they are both candidates for export sale in China as well, so either would make sense. With Edge being closer to production than the next Taurus though, I would lean more toward MKX.

 

Plus, given we've already seen the Edge concept, but no MKX concept yet, and I can't imagine their production schedules would be too different.