joseodiaga4 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Even so, I don't think you compromise space on the MKX just for the sake of making a stopgap until the Aviator arrives. true.....would be better just to drop the MKT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 true.....would be better just to drop the MKT Eh, at this point, it's already paid for - no need to drop it just to drop it. Let it (and the Flex) live out its lifecycle until an appropriate replacement can be made/offfered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) "...American makers keep ... sleeping on the Cam-Corder..." Ford is not "sleeping" against the Cam-Cords! Best sales #'s ever, and nearly every month, I post how some naysyers claimed "The Fusion will never sell over 10K a month" back in fall 2005. But where are these know it alls now? GM is the one "sleeping"; they were once the mid size sales bell-weather, with Cutlass, etc. Ever since the W/N bodies, GM couldn't care less. Mopar finally has a middie competitor, but will it get the #'s One good thing is Camry may get knocked from #1 car, the Accord simply looks more luxurious. Fusion beat Altima, by a hair, but still won. But, Japan Inc would kill for Ford's truck sales. The Tundra/Titan have failed to 'take over' big truck sales as some 'Coastal Elites' expected years ago. They never will. BTW, with gas prices stable and drivers "used to" them, small cars will be slower than 'panic' times. Focus shoppers will be upsold easily to a Fusion, "for a little more a month..." Civic/Corolla buyers though, are penny pinchers, and will grind to last penny. These are also 'Consumer Reports' fanatics, and still think anything else will "fall apart at 36K miles". Edited October 2, 2014 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 (edited) Lots of Kia Souls at the Payless rental car facility at OHare airport. And hardly ever see any 'retail' ones driven by a 'young' adult, more likely 60-ish. Some fan boys claim these are 'hip and with it' for hipsters. And many 2015 Sonatas at all the Rental lots, most of these "all new" ones I see are bar coded, racing to a business meeting from a plane. Dumping into fleets doesn't work out too well if wanting to move 'upmarket' as Hyundai claims. Edited October 2, 2014 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 630land, this is not directed at you (so please don't take offense), but to anyone who ever does this (I'm guilty myself): Can we agree as a community not to base sales data on anecdotal views of cars seen in rental lots anymore? I mean, "I saw a ton of bar-coded Fusions/Malibus/200s/Sonatas/Camrys, so they must all be fleet dumping" isn't exactly the scientific model of certainty. Let's use the fleet sales reports because frankly what happens in one neck of the woods in one season at one airport/city center/amusement park does not equal how things are everywhere....or even in a specific time span. It's almost like it's back to the "Metro Detroit" posts as of late. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I was reading reports claiming that Ford sales would be down in upwards of 15%.....guess the prognosticators got it wrong.....again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 630land, this is not directed at you (so please don't take offense), but to anyone who ever does this (I'm guilty myself): Can we agree as a community not to base sales data on anecdotal views of cars seen in rental lots anymore? I mean, "I saw a ton of bar-coded Fusions/Malibus/200s/Sonatas/Camrys, so they must all be fleet dumping" isn't exactly the scientific model of certainty. Let's use the fleet sales reports because frankly what happens in one neck of the woods in one season at one airport/city center/amusement park does not equal how things are everywhere....or even in a specific time span. information is power, so here is the fleet sales as of last year, here in a handy dandy PDF file http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2Ffc_resources%2Fstats%2Faffb14p20-31.pdf&channel= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Lots of Kia Souls at the Payless rental car facility at OHare airport. And hardly ever see any 'retail' ones driven by a 'young' adult, more likely 60-ish. Some fan boys claim these are 'hip and with it' for hipsters. And many 2015 Sonatas at all the Rental lots, most of these "all new" ones I see are bar coded, racing to a business meeting from a plane. Dumping into fleets doesn't work out too well if wanting to move 'upmarket' as Hyundai claims. Most "young" cars are often bought by people in their 60's who want to downsize but yet want a fun car...and fleet sales at the start of new model production run isn't necessarily bad..its a good way to shake down a car to see what type of issues it will have going forward vs a normal retail sale that might not be driven as much. Ford has done this in the past (the 2008 and 2012 Focus come to mind) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) That fleet yearbook does tend to bear out Dean's earlier comments about the Chrysler minivans & rental agencies. But then, he's probably in a position to know such things. Edited October 3, 2014 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) information is power, so here is the fleet sales as of last year, here in a handy dandy PDF file http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2Ffc_resources%2Fstats%2Faffb14p20-31.pdf&channel= THANK YOU! This reinforces exactly what I was saying. You are much more then likely to see a Fusion at a rental lot then an Avenger (based on the rental sales numbers)...yet the Avenger has a a much higher rental percentage vs total sales. Edited October 3, 2014 by Intrepidatious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Also, I'm impressed that, with the Transit Connect, Ford *still* has over 50% of the total van market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) THANK YOU! This reinforces exactly what I was saying. You are much more then likely to see a Fusion at a rental lot then an Avenger (based on the rental sales numbers)...yet the Avenger has a a much higher rental percentage vs total sales. Chrysler had already pared back the Avenger production volume in 2013 because it was a dead man walking, so it's not a good year to pick up the data and say "aha!". Here is the 2012 number for example: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3a%2f%2fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2ffc_resources%2fstats%2faffb13car-reg.pdf&channel= Check out out the raw daily rental registration number for Avenger for both years. But the real rental queens in midsize car category are Japanese... Altima #1, Camry #2. Edited October 3, 2014 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Chrysler had already pared back the Avenger production volume in 2013 because it was a dead man walking, so it's not a good year to pick up the data and say "aha!". Here is the 2012 number for example: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3a%2f%2fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2ffc_resources%2fstats%2faffb13car-reg.pdf&channel= Check out out the raw daily rental registration number for Avenger for both years. But the real rental queens in midsize car category are Japanese... Altima #1, Camry #2. Same thought process though. That year, you pretty much just as likely to get a Fusion as an Avenger based on rental sales. (The Avenger only had ~7k more sales to rentals in '12). But which one had more rental sales as a percentage of total sales? That's the point I was making about using anecdotal evidence for categorizing a car as rental fleet dumping. If that were the case, based on anecdotal evidence of seeing "a lot of them in rental agencies"... the Fusion would be considered a fleet queen. But it's not. I'm actually taking these charts and entering them in a database and running various reports against them. I'll share once I'm done. It's a great source of info. Thanks again silversvt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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