Ford mulls Ranchero reprise for small-truck market

[Biker16]

 

Right. Look at the success of the Ranger that was single and supercab only - no 4 doors compared to the Sport Trac.

if this thing can reach the volumes of the outgoing ranger in North America, it would be considered a huge success.

[akirby]

if this thing can reach the volumes of the outgoing ranger in North America, it would be considered a huge success.

 

Provided it's built on a shared platform in a shared factory in the U.S. - yes because it wouldn't be cannibalizing F150 sales and profits.

[twintornados]

 

Provided it's built on a shared platform in a shared factory in the U.S North America. - yes because it wouldn't be cannibalizing F150 sales and profits.

 

Fixed it for ya, while I would LOVE to see this built in America by Americans, the likelihood is more that it will be built in a plant south of the boarder....for now. By building it in Mexico, Ford would be able to export it (and Transit Connect since they would also most likely be built at the same plant) to South America with no tariffs.

 

I am thinking that Cuautitlán Assembly in Mexico has the capacity since right now, it only builds Fiesta.....

Edited October 8, 2014 by twintornados

[Biker16]

Can we agree that the chicken tax is bullshit and needs to be Repealed?

[akirby]

 

Fixed it for ya, while I would LOVE to see this built in America by Americans, the likelihood is more that it will be built in a plant south of the boarder....for now. By building it in Mexico, Ford would be able to export it (and Transit Connect since they would also most likely be built at the same plant) to South America with no tariffs.

 

Good catch. I did mean NA.

[akirby]

Can we agree that the chicken tax is bullshit and needs to be Repealed?

 

As much as I hate to agree with you again - yes.

[fordmantpw]

 

As much as I hate to agree with you again - yes.

 

This is getting scary!

[twintornados]

Without proclamation order #3564 (aka the dreaded "chicken tax") the flood gates of cheaply made imported trucks would destroy more jobs...the fact is that the "chicken tax" directly led several manufacturers to construct facilities in North America instead of trying to circumvent the tariff. Imagine what would be coming to the US from China now without this tariff firmly in place. Commercial truck buyers that buy fleets of trucks would not give one second of thought about the loss of jobs if they can get their commodity (commercial trucks) in the door cheaper.

Edited October 8, 2014 by twintornados

[theoldwizard]

Repeating things other have said and adding my 2¢

• As long as there is a chicken tax (I agree, it is BS) you can rule out an import. Even the "quick change" Transit Connect Wagon to Transit Connect Cargo is getting Ford in to trouble with the Fed.
• Forget any kind of new platform in the US. Not enough volume. (So yes, a lot of that story was BS.) Any type of new vehicle would have to be built off of an existing US manufactured platform.
• For whatever reason, Americans don't like unibody trucks. Add FWD without a AWD option and it would be the kiss of death.
• The real question is

• Do you do a Ranchero, likely off the Mustang ?
• Do you do a Sport Trac off of the next generation Explorer ?

Now if you take my "out of the box thinking" you would build a Sport Trac like vehicle (4 door, short bed) on the next gen Explorer. This vehicle is still in the early design stages so making changes to accomodate a small pickup truck would be easy. The next gen Explorer will likely be FWD/AWD unibody and mostly aluminum which is not a great combination for a small pickup, especially in the floor pan area. Keep the FWD/AWD (which is likely to stay on a steel subframe). Mount the rear suspension to a subframe and then add front to rear subframe connectors (or let the aftermarket do that like was done on Mustangs for years) !

A Mustang Ranchero would be cool as hell, but I don't know how well it would sell well enough to justify the cost. My gut tells me there is a lot more sales potential for a Sport Trac. Soccer moms have room to haul kids and a lockable hard tonneau gives it a real trunk. As long as you can get a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back with the tailgate down, DIYers would like it also.

Edited October 8, 2014 by theoldwizard

[akirby]

Without proclamation order #3564 (aka the dreaded "chicken tax") the flood gates of cheaply made imported trucks would destroy more jobs...the fact is that the "chicken tax" directly led several manufacturers to construct facilities in North America instead of trying to circumvent the tariff. Imagine what would be coming to the US from China now without this tariff firmly in place. Commercial truck buyers that buy fleets of trucks would not give one second of thought about the loss of jobs if they can get their commodity (commercial trucks) in the door cheaper.

 

That's a great theory, except that cars, crossovers and vans are not and never have been subject to the chicken tax. Where is the flood of cheap cars from China?

[fordmantpw]

Without proclamation order #3564 (aka the dreaded "chicken tax") the flood gates of cheaply made imported trucks would destroy more jobs...the fact is that the "chicken tax" directly led several manufacturers to construct facilities in North America instead of trying to circumvent the tariff. Imagine what would be coming to the US from China now without this tariff firmly in place. Commercial truck buyers that buy fleets of trucks would not give one second of thought about the loss of jobs if they can get their commodity (commercial trucks) in the door cheaper.

 

Fleets don't necessarily want cheaper, they want lowest TCO. Cheaper does not always dictate lowest TCO.

 

Plus, I seriously doubt those cheap cars from China will pass US crash standards. Or EPA regs. Or...Or...Or...

[akirby]

Plus, I seriously doubt those cheap cars from China will pass US crash standards. Or EPA regs. Or...Or...Or...

 

There is no chicken tax on cars now or in the past yet there is no influx of cheap chinese cars. In part because of the regs you mention. The same would apply to trucks.

Edited October 8, 2014 by akirby

[fordmantpw]

 

There is no chicken tax on cars now or in the past yet there is no influx of cheap chinese cars. In part because of the regs you mention. The same would apply to trucks.

 

Yep. Trucks used to be exempt from a lot of those regs, but not any more.

[rmc523]

[*]Do you do a Sport Trac off of the next generation Explorer ?

Now if you take my "out of the box thinking" you would build a Sport Trac like vehicle (4 door, short bed) on the next gen Explorer. This vehicle is still in the early design stages so making changes to accomodate a small pickup truck would be easy. The next gen Explorer will likely be FWD/AWD unibody and mostly aluminum which is not a great combination for a small pickup, especially in the floor pan area. Keep the FWD/AWD (which is likely to stay on a steel subframe). Mount the rear suspension to a subframe and then add front to rear subframe connectors (or let the aftermarket do that like was done on Mustangs for years) !

 

I know you mention it being FWD/AWD, but the idea of the Sport Trac return is interesting given the RWD Explorer rumors.

[RichardJensen]

For whatever reason, Americans don't like unibody trucks. Add FWD without a AWD option and it would be the kiss of death.

 

I think this vehicle is going to be aimed squarely at fleets which seem to be far less dogmatic about such things.

[bzcat]

Repeating things other have said and adding my 2¢

• As long as there is a chicken tax (I agree, it is BS) you can rule out an import. Even the "quick change" Transit Connect Wagon to Transit Connect Cargo is getting Ford in to trouble with the Fed.
• Forget any kind of new platform in the US. Not enough volume. (So yes, a lot of that story was BS.) Any type of new vehicle would have to be built off of an existing US manufactured platform.
• For whatever reason, Americans don't like unibody trucks. Add FWD without a AWD option and it would be the kiss of death.
• The real question is

• Do you do a Ranchero, likely off the Mustang ?
• Do you do a Sport Trac off of the next generation Explorer ?

 

 

1. It's BS but no one in Congress want to touch it.

2. Sure, that's what we've been saying.

3. I don't think so. Transit Connect shows that Americans (to the tune of over 4,000 a month) think FWD and unibody is just fine in a work vehicle. Ford is not likely to be targeting the kind of buyers that think unibody trucks is a "problem". They are going after Transit Connect buyers (fleet!) that need similar payload but with open bed. Think like a fleet buyer for a second... do you need ladder frame, 8,000 lb towing capacity, RWD, and 300 hp if you are just delivering dry goods in the suburbs or running a bike shop in downtown Portland?

4. Those are the wrong questions. The real ones are:

• Are fleet buyers likely to pay more or less for a Transit Connect with the roof chopped off?
• What kind of MPG to target in order to achieve projected running costs - and would an investment in hybrid version pay off?
• Do you offer an integrated bed or just a chassis cab and let the aftermarket take care of specialty applications (compact refrigerated trucks for food delivery company, drop side tray for landscaping company)? Or do both integrated bed pickup and cab chassis?

Edited October 8, 2014 by bzcat

[twintornados]

It would be a "win" for North American production if the concept were brought to this continent....even if Transit Connect and Transit Connect truck were built in Mexico, the need for motors and other supply items would reach northward into the USA....Think about the implications of a van and truck that is built here and able to be exported to other areas of the western hemisphere without a tariff. Ford as a company would have yet another hit on their hands (as the Transit Connect already is) to help bolster the all important bottom line. In North American markets, it would complement rather than cannibalize the sacred F-Series sales....

[theoldwizard]

Those are the wrong questions. The real ones are:

• Are fleet buyers likely to pay more or less for a Transit Connect with the roof chopped off?[/*

I see where you are coming from !

 

A pickup based off of the Transit Connect is not a bad idea, but its a "none starter" as long as there is a chicken tax and the TC is NOT built in the US. Building it in the US would mean a higher base price,

 

That puts us back to a Mustang Ranchero or an Edge/Explorer based Sport Trac/F100.

• What kind of MPG to target in order to achieve projected running costs - and would an investment in hybrid version pay off?[/*

 

MPG is important to fleets, but they aren't going to pay for a full hybrid. Start-stop is good enough. Edited October 9, 2014 by theoldwizard

[akirby]

I see where you are coming from !

 

A pickup based off of the Transit Connect is not a bad idea, but its a "none starter" as long as there is a chicken tax and the TC is NOT built in the US. Building it in the US would mean a higher base price,

 

That puts us back to a Mustang Ranchero or an Edge/Explorer based Sport Trac/F100.

MPG is important to fleets, but they aren't going to pay for a full hybrid. Start-stop is good enough.

 

Or build it in a country without a chicken tax. Doesn't have to be U.S. although with TC volume it probably can be.

 

Mustang/Edge/Explorer platforms are simply too heavy. This vehicle has to be no larger than the old ranger and lighter. New SportTrac won't cut it any more than a T6 Ranger.

[bzcat]

I see where you are coming from !

 

A pickup based off of the Transit Connect is not a bad idea, but its a "none starter" as long as there is a chicken tax and the TC is NOT built in the US. Building it in the US would mean a higher base price,

 

That puts us back to a Mustang Ranchero or an Edge/Explorer based Sport Trac/F100.

MPG is important to fleets, but they aren't going to pay for a full hybrid. Start-stop is good enough.

 

TC can be easily moved to Mexico to avoid chicken tax. Ford is probably trying to grow the volume of TC with addition of the pickup body style thereby making local assembly feasible. Building it in Mexico will also mean Ford can sell the van and truck in South America duty free because Mexico has reciprocal tariff preferential treatment with Chile, Brazil and Argentina.

 

The general industry consensus is that you need at least 100,000 unit annually to make it economically feasible to do local assembly in North America. Ford is averaging 4,000 units a month in the US (not counting Canada) with TC van fully imported from Spain right now. It's easy to imagine them adding another 2,000 a month if they are able to build the van here without the supply chain delays and shipping constrains. Now let say the pickup truck adds another 1,000 units a month... and you are up to 7,000 units a month or 84,000 a year. Now add Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and other South American markets and you are on your way to 100,000 units.

Edited October 9, 2014 by bzcat

[akirby]

 

TC can be easily moved to Mexico to avoid chicken tax. Ford is probably trying to grow the volume of TC with addition of the pickup body style thereby making local assembly feasible. Building it in Mexico will also mean Ford can sell the van and truck in South America duty free because Mexico has reciprocal tariff preferential treatment with Chile, Brazil and Argentina.

 

Bingo.

[92merc]

 

Bingo.

[Pioneer]

Did all you chicken tax haters not read the article? You know, specifically the paragraph where the Ford spokesperson stated they wanted to build this in the United States? Or did you read it and think he was lying?

 

Just curious.

[RichardJensen]

Is Ontario part of the US? Because this would seem to be decent volume for OAC.

[twintornados]

Is Ontario part of the US? Because this would seem to be decent volume for OAC.

...or Avon Lake.