Chevy Colorado is Motor Trend Truck of the Year

[jpd80]

Silverado january sales dip as Colorado increases, is this internal competition or something bigger?

the reason I ask is because F Truck sales increased at the same time - interesting times ahead

especially with 1500 more workers joining the F150 line..

[Dave-S]

 

This thread sat idle for 56 days before it was resurrected by THIS post:

 

 

 

So---

 

 

I beg your pardon.......look at the dates on postings preceding mine.

[akirby]

 

 

I beg your pardon.......look at the dates on postings preceding mine.

 

His point was we're not the ones harping on it - we're just responding to others.

[fordmantpw]

GM's bag would contain one apple each of 27 different varieties.

 

The Caddy bag would only contain super expensive Organic vegetables.

 

 

 

As of January 31, 2015, sales of midsize pickup trucks in the U.S. grew 60% compared to a year earlier, due in large part to the introduction of Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon for the current model year. Chevy Colorado has now overtaken Nissan Frontier for the #2 position among midsize trucks in U.S. retail market share, and the extended cab version of Colorado is among the fastest selling vehicles of any type, taking only 15 days between arriving at a dealership lot and finding a buyer or lessee according to cars.com.

 

At this juncture, the U.S. version of Chevy Colorado is a winner in more ways than one.

 

 

I beg your pardon.......look at the dates on postings preceding mine.

 

Do the math. I posted the 2 posts RJ was referring to above. aneekr resurrected the post after 56 days of it sitting idle.

[grbeck]

The ONLY reason the Mustang II sold well was the 1973 OPEC oil crisis! It's also why the Pinto which had been in production since 1971 peaked in 1974 selling over 544,000 units in '74. Americans were buying anything with a 4-cylinder engine in a knee-jerk reaction.

Sales of all domestic pony cars had been declining rapidly since 1970. Meanwhile, sales of the Toyota Celica, Opel Manta and Ford's own Capri had been doing quite well, even before the fuel crunch.

 

It's true that the fuel crisis spurred Mustang II sales to a higher level, but the car probably would have sold well anyway, even without that added boost. The Camaro and Firebird sold well in the late 1970s primarily because they mopped up what was left of the old pony car market. The AMC Javelin, Dodge Challenger and Plymouth Barracuda were gone, while the Mercury Cougar had become an intermediate-size personal luxury car.

[grbeck]

But they're not Ranger/S10 smaller. These things are still pretty big especially in crew cab configuration which most people want.

I saw my first Colorado on the road yesterday. It was a crew cab. The only dimension it really looked much smaller than a Silverado/F-Series was width, which made it look somewhat awkward in the crew cab configuration. Anyone expecting these to resurrect the true compact pickup will be in for a disappointment.

[jpd80]

I saw my first Colorado on the road yesterday. It was a crew cab. The only dimension it really looked much smaller than a Silverado/F-Series was width, which made it look somewhat awkward in the crew cab configuration. Anyone expecting these to resurrect the true compact pickup will be in for a disappointment.

t sounds like those that really want one are buying them, the issue is that some really want to believe that their

the actual volume of potential mid sized truck buyers as greater than is actually the case.

 

I think the money spent on bringing a Ranger would be better spent on a variation of F150, maybe narrowed slightly and sold as an F100..

[sullynd]

I think the money spent on bringing a Ranger would be better spent on a variation of F150, maybe narrowed slightly and sold as an F100..

Which is kind of what GM did.

[F250]

Sales of all domestic pony cars had been declining rapidly since 1970. Meanwhile, sales of the Toyota Celica, Opel Manta and Ford's own Capri had been doing quite well, even before the fuel crunch.

 

It's true that the fuel crisis spurred Mustang II sales to a higher level, but the car probably would have sold well anyway, even without that added boost. The Camaro and Firebird sold well in the late 1970s primarily because they mopped up what was left of the old pony car market. The AMC Javelin, Dodge Challenger and Plymouth Barracuda were gone, while the Mercury Cougar had become an intermediate-size personal luxury car.

 

By 1974 AMC could barely pay the electric bill much less invest in a new Javelin. Chrysler had a new 'Cuda/Challenger working but the '73 oil crisis hit killing the program so '74 was their last year. GM might have done the same but after watching the Mustang get neutered and the other 2 competitors fold their pony car programs they figured "what the hell, we're the only game in town now!" The Mustang II sold well but it was an economy car NOT a pony car much like that re-badged '78 Mitsubishi the Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Sapporo. GM was the only player from 1975-78.

 

Speaking of Re-badge jobs this is the same era Ford was slapping the blue oval on little Mazda pickup trucks calling it the Courier. Interesting how the Japanese owned the entire small pickup truck market through the 1970s either directly Toyota, Datsun etc or re-badges like the Courier and Chevy LUV (Isuzu) and as soon as the Domestic manufacturers got serious and built all-new American designed and built small trucks like the Ford Ranger they took the market away from the Japanese and Mazda was putting their name on the ranger.

 

But the truck market has changed int the U.S. can't see little trucks the size of the original Ranger selling here today, same reason they don't make Rancheros and ElCaminos any more. And the midsize truck buyers like the Tacoma and Colorado must not be very good at math since their trucks give up capability and provide very little advantage in fuel economy.

[akirby]

 

as soon as the Domestic manufacturers got serious and built all-new American designed and built small trucks like the Ford Ranger they took the market away from the Japanese and Mazda was putting their name on the ranger.

 

<cough> chicken tax <cough>

 

When all the small trucks had the same chicken tax it was fair competition. When Ford and GM brought out Ranger and S-10 they had a built-in 25% cost advantage.

 

Just like Detroit was ok competing with each other with inflated union wages because it was a level playing field until the imports came in and built new plants without the union.

 

 

My brother had a Datsun pickup with a manual tranny and that thing was sweet - especially compared to the domestic trucks at the time.

[grbeck]

By 1974 AMC could barely pay the electric bill much less invest in a new Javelin. Chrysler had a new 'Cuda/Challenger working but the '73 oil crisis hit killing the program so '74 was their last year. GM might have done the same but after watching the Mustang get neutered and the other 2 competitors fold their pony car programs they figured "what the hell, we're the only game in town now!" The Mustang II sold well but it was an economy car NOT a pony car much like that re-badged '78 Mitsubishi the Dodge Challenger/Plymouth Sapporo. GM was the only player from 1975-78.

 

Speaking of Re-badge jobs this is the same era Ford was slapping the blue oval on little Mazda pickup trucks calling it the Courier. Interesting how the Japanese owned the entire small pickup truck market through the 1970s either directly Toyota, Datsun etc or re-badges like the Courier and Chevy LUV (Isuzu) and as soon as the Domestic manufacturers got serious and built all-new American designed and built small trucks like the Ford Ranger they took the market away from the Japanese and Mazda was putting their name on the ranger.

 

But the truck market has changed int the U.S. can't see little trucks the size of the original Ranger selling here today, same reason they don't make Rancheros and ElCaminos any more. And the midsize truck buyers like the Tacoma and Colorado must not be very good at math since their trucks give up capability and provide very little advantage in fuel economy.

AMC was actually quite profitable in 1972-74. It had bought Jeep in 1970, and by 1972, the gains from that move were becoming apparent. AMC passenger car sales increased from 1972 through 1974, as did market share. What AMC should have done with the Javelin was bring out a 1975 Javelin based on the 1974 Gremlin G-II show car. That show car, after some minor changes, became the 1979 AMC Spirit. A slightly downsized Javelin based on the Hornet-Gremlin platform, with fastback styling and a range of I-6 and V-8s, would have been a hit in 1975.

 

Chrysler had decided against investing in a new Barracuda and Challenger before the first fuel crunch in late 1973. Soon after the debut of the 1970 models, the corporation took a proposed clay model of the next-generation Barracuda and Challenger to a clinic in Cincinnati. It completely bombed with the clinic attendees. This negative feedback, combined with terrible sales of the Challenger and Barracuda in 1971, effectively killed the next-generation Challenger and Barracuda.

 

GM was ready to discontinue the Camaro and Firebird after the 1973 model year because of slumping sales and a strike at the Norwood plant. Only a concerted effort by some key Chevrolet and Pontiac officials persuaded top management to give the cars a stay of execution (much to GM's ultimate satisfaction).

Edited February 10, 2015 by grbeck

[F250]

 

chicken tax

 

When all the small trucks had the same chicken tax it was fair competition. When Ford and GM brought out Ranger and S-10 they had a built-in 25% cost advantage.

 

Just like Detroit was ok competing with each other with inflated union wages because it was a level playing field until the imports came in and built new plants without the union.

.

Level playing field?! Chicken tax? Right. Like the Japanese open their market to any Gaijin company! Go to Japan and try to buy an American built Ford. You can't be that naive.

[akirby]

Level playing field?! Chicken tax? Right. Like the Japanese open their market to any Gaijin company! Go to Japan and try to buy an American built Ford. You can't be that naive.

 

Who said anything about Japan? I'm only talking about the U.S. market.

 

If every competitor has the same cost structure (whether it's taxes or labor cost) then it's a level playing field. If one competitor has a cost advantage they can undercut the others.

[aneekr]

Go to Japan and try to buy an American built Ford.

 

That's easily accomplished. Example: http://www.ford.co.jp/cars/new-mustang

[RichardJensen]

Really? Easily accomplished? How many dealers does Ford have? How hard would I have to look to find a Ford dealer with a Mustang in it?

[probowler]

The collective knowledge and history of the auto market you guys have is amazing, especially considering there was no internet when all this stuff went down........I bet auto magazines pre-2004 were pretty awesome back then.

 

Is there any good automotive journalism still available? Honest, and not bought?

 

I would love to subscribe to something...

[F250]

 

That's easily accomplished. Example: http://www.ford.co.jp/cars/new-mustang

 

Ford of Japan's site does list the new 2015 Mustang available only with the 2.3L EcoBoost/auto trans no options for ... get this... only 4,650,000 yen! That's $39,000 dollars.

By comparison a Japanese built Toyota Camry which is considered to be a large luxury car in Japan sells for $26.800.

This does not include the yearly reaming Mustang buyers get on BS taxes for owning a Gaijin car.

Edited February 11, 2015 by F250

[F250]

AMC was actually quite profitable in 1972-74. It had bought Jeep in 1970, and by 1972, the gains from that move were becoming apparent. AMC passenger car sales increased from 1972 through 1974, as did market share. What AMC should have done with the Javelin was bring out a 1975 Javelin based on the 1974 Gremlin G-II show car. That show car, after some minor changes, became the 1979 AMC Spirit. A slightly downsized Javelin based on the Hornet-Gremlin platform, with fastback styling and a range of I-6 and V-8s, would have been a hit in 1975.

 

Chrysler had decided against investing in a new Barracuda and Challenger before the first fuel crunch in late 1973. Soon after the debut of the 1970 models, the corporation took a proposed clay model of the next-generation Barracuda and Challenger to a clinic in Cincinnati. It completely bombed with the clinic attendees. This negative feedback, combined with terrible sales of the Challenger and Barracuda in 1971, effectively killed the next-generation Challenger and Barracuda.

 

GM was ready to discontinue the Camaro and Firebird after the 1973 model year because of slumping sales and a strike at the Norwood plant. Only a concerted effort by some key Chevrolet and Pontiac officials persuaded top management to give the cars a stay of execution (much to GM's ultimate satisfaction).

 

AMC was so flush with money they were looking for help from Renault by 1979.

And this is the cancelled Chrysler pony car for 1975.

http://www.amcarguide.com/concept/1975-plymouth-barracuda-concept/

 

The first lines of the link state the reasons were:

"The world was given a chance to get one more generation of Barracuda back in 1975, but due to 3 main factors it didn’t reach production line: high insurance charges, government’s criticism against muscle cars and industry’s turn from performance to research [emission]."

 

 

Edited February 11, 2015 by F250

[F250]

AMC was actually quite profitable in 1972-74. It had bought Jeep in 1970, and by 1972, the gains from that move were becoming apparent. AMC passenger car sales increased from 1972 through 1974, as did market share. What AMC should have done with the Javelin was bring out a 1975 Javelin based on the 1974 Gremlin G-II show car. That show car, after some minor changes, became the 1979 AMC Spirit. A slightly downsized Javelin based on the Hornet-Gremlin platform, with fastback styling and a range of I-6 and V-8s, would have been a hit in 1975.

 

Chrysler had decided against investing in a new Barracuda and Challenger before the first fuel crunch in late 1973. Soon after the debut of the 1970 models, the corporation took a proposed clay model of the next-generation Barracuda and Challenger to a clinic in Cincinnati. It completely bombed with the clinic attendees. This negative feedback, combined with terrible sales of the Challenger and Barracuda in 1971, effectively killed the next-generation Challenger and Barracuda.

 

GM was ready to discontinue the Camaro and Firebird after the 1973 model year because of slumping sales and a strike at the Norwood plant. Only a concerted effort by some key Chevrolet and Pontiac officials persuaded top management to give the cars a stay of execution (much to GM's ultimate satisfaction).

AMC was so flush with money they were looking for help from Renault by 1978.

quote from Wiki:

"In February 1977, Time magazine reported that although AMC had lost $73.8 million in the previous two fiscal years, U.S. banks had agreed to a year's extension for a $72.5 million credit that had expired in January; that Stockholders had received no dividends since 1974; and that Pacer sales did not match expectations. However, Time noted record Jeep sales and a backlog of orders for AM General's buses."

 

And this is the cancelled Chrysler pony car for 1975.

http://www.amcarguid...racuda-concept/

 

The first lines of the link state the reasons were:

"The world was given a chance to get one more generation of Barracuda back in 1975, but due to 3 main factors it didn’t reach production line: high insurance charges, government’s criticism against muscle cars and industry’s turn from performance to research [emission]."

Edited February 11, 2015 by F250

[F250]

double post

 

 

 

 

[F250]

The collective knowledge and history of the auto market you guys have is amazing, especially considering there was no internet when all this stuff went down........I bet auto magazines pre-2004 were pretty awesome back then.

 

Is there any good automotive journalism still available? Honest, and not bought?

 

I would love to subscribe to something...

I don't know about the others but I remember some of this stuff because I'm just old. Got my driver's license with everyone else in my high school in the '70s. We were a bunch of gearheads. That means we teenagers could buy old used muscle cars dirt cheap as they were labeled "gas guzzlers" at that time and they were at the bottom of their depreciation. Amazing what a part-time job at an auto parts store could buy. My high school parking lot had my 1971 Mustang Mach-1 351 Ram Air, my friends "70 Mustang fastback 351 with factory shaker hood, a 70 Cuda 340, a 383 Challenger, a '67 390 Fairlane, a '71 Javelin 401 and a '66 Galaxie 7-Liter Special also a bunch of small block v8 Mustangs and Camaros. The girl I took to homecoming had a small block '71 Corvette but she was a little spoiled (her dad had a Plymouth Superbird). Fun times.

Edited February 11, 2015 by F250

[grbeck]

 

AMC was so flush with money they were looking for help from Renault by 1979.

And this is the cancelled Chrysler pony car for 1975.

http://www.amcarguide.com/concept/1975-plymouth-barracuda-concept/

 

The first lines of the link state the reasons were:

"The world was given a chance to get one more generation of Barracuda back in 1975, but due to 3 main factors it didn’t reach production line: high insurance charges, government’s criticism against muscle cars and industry’s turn from performance to research [emission]."

 

AMC went into a tailspin between 1976 and 1979 because it blew all of its development dollars on the 1974 Matador coupe and the 1975 Pacer. Both cars ultimately flopped in the market place. With their failure, AMC had no more money to develop any all-new cars, let alone the new front-wheel-drive small cars that were required once the VW Rabbit and Honda Accord appeared on the scene.

 

AMC was not in dire straits in 1972-74. As I've said, the sales and market share of its passenger cars were increasing during the 1972-74 time frame.

 

(Note that your Time article is from early 1977, and it references losses during the previous two fiscal years. This article therefore does not prove that AMC was in desperate straits in the 1972-74 time period. In fact, if you do more research, you will find numerous articles in the business press during 1972-74 hailing AMC's comeback in sales, market share and profits. AMC went into a tailspin after 1975 because the Pacer and Matador coupe flopped, and never recouped the money spent to develop them. Those two cars used up all of the money AMC had to spend on new cars, which were desperately needed after the first fuel crunch, thanks to changing customer tastes and CAFE.)

 

Patrick Foster's book, American Motors: the Rise and Fall of America's Last Independent, gives a good overview of the entire saga. It can be found here: http://www.oldemilfordpress.com/

 

As for the next-generation Barracuda - the car on the website is the car that ultimately flopped in the Cincinnati consumer clinic. The website is correct that the car was planned for the 1975 model year, but misses the fact that the car bombed with potential customers. That is a big reason why it was cancelled. You can read about it in this book: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dodge-challenger-plymouth-barracuda-david-newhardt/1003982768?ean=9780760307724

Edited February 11, 2015 by grbeck

[RichardJensen]

The collective knowledge and history of the auto market you guys have is amazing, especially considering there was no internet when all this stuff went down........I bet auto magazines pre-2004 were pretty awesome back then.

 

Is there any good automotive journalism still available? Honest, and not bought?

 

I would love to subscribe to something...

 

I don't know that there's any publication today that has a breadth of quality writing worth paying for.

 

Your best bet, IMO, is to read some of the better books on the business out there.

 

Ford: The Men and the Machine by Robert Lacey is, without question, the definitive history of Ford Motor to 1986.

Ford: The Dust and the Glory by Leo Levine is an excellent history of Ford racing up to 1967 (the Mk IV win at Le Mans and the launch of the DFV).

The Reckoning by David Halberstam is a fantastic review of how Detroit failed

Car: A Drama of the American Workplace by Mary Walton explains the development of the '96 Taurus

Taurus: The Making of the Car That Saved Ford by Eric Taub explains the development of the '86 Taurus

 

Allan Nevins and Frank Hill collaborated on a three volume history of Ford to 1961 that is useful, but also expensive and not as impartial as Lacey's single volume book.

 

Most of these books can be picked up off Amazon for $4, including shipping.

 

Granted, these books cover stuff that happened decades ago, but the biggest reason why it's important to understand what happened in the past is because it helps you understand the culture of these companies.

Edited February 11, 2015 by RichardJensen

[aneekr]

 

The Reckoning by David Halberstam

 

 

This book stands out as a particularly well researched work not just about the automotive industry, but about organizational behavior and culture as well.

 

When I joined a Fortune 500 company for a fleet manager role back in 1988, copies of The Reckoning by Halberstam and In Search of Excellence by Peters and Waterman were provided to all new managerial employees as required reading. I still have both titles.

Edited February 11, 2015 by aneekr

[RichardJensen]

I thought about adding Concept of the Corporation but it seemed a bit too theoretical, not narrative enough, even though the subject was GM, and the book profoundly influenced business.