Caddy Exec: Dealers Part of Brand's Problem

[Fgts]

All Lincoln has to do is watch Cadillac and do the exact opposite.

 

I have never seen a company so poorly managed, you couldn't have given ATS and CTS a worse introduction if you tried.

Let's introduce our new expensive ATS alongside a heavily discounted CTS for 12 months and see what happens...

After we do that, let's bring in a new CTS that's way more expensive and see what happens to brand building when

our existing car customers die of sticker shock and go lease competitor brands nstead.

 

When it comes to brand building, Cadillac has done the exact opposite. The disrespect and uter contempt

shown to return buyers is right there for all to see and reflected in the poor sales of their "BMW Fighters".

Nearly 30,000 unslod ATS and CTS tells me that Cadillac is completely clueless..GM will need a huge

fire sale to clear their parking lot which will undermine any future premium pricing.

So how come Cadillac was still losing sales when they were making "Japanese fighters"? . The XTS should be Cadillac's best seller as its a good fwd cruiser like the Deville and DTS was, only the far expensive Audi A8 out-guns the XTS but that bad o'l rwd CTS is Caddys best-seller while XTS sales are dead last. CTS sales are slightly down due to the CTS coupe dying and sedan sales are taking it's place.

 

You keep quoting inventory like a Wal-Mart manager to indicate sales when you know it's more then that. Silverado have more inventory then that but yet it's the 2nd best-selling vehicle.

 

CUVs I agree should had been the next step but that's getting remedied in a few years as GM updates the CUV portfolio. Lincoln only have the MKC for sale and it's like Lincoln is the CUV leader around here.

[Fgts]

Dp

Edited December 20, 2014 by Fgts

[Fgts]

Dp 2 I forgot about the MKX (like most buyers) the editing is messing up but my point still stands.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Fgts

[fuzzymoomoo]

How about quit trying to be BMW/Audi. Quit building "fighters" and just be Cadillac?! Is that really so freaking hard?

 

Typical GM, can't see the forest through the trees, trying to be everyone else instead of their own identity.

[jpd80]

So how come Cadillac was still losing sales when they were making "Japanese fighters"? . The XTS should be Cadillac's best seller as its a good fwd cruiser like the Deville and DTS was, only the far expensive Audi A8 out-guns the XTS but that bad o'l rwd CTS is Caddys best-seller while XTS sales are dead last. CTS sales are slightly down due to the CTS coupe dying and sedan sales are taking it's place.

Cadillac simply covered a mistake with an even bigger one - expensive dedicated RWD BMW Fighters,

Cadillac had CTS buyer eating out of its hand, sure they wanted good deals but the sales were there.

now it needs Camaro to come in and pay for all the development costs.of expensive Alphas

because thsoe former buyers are staying out and the conquests didn't cover the numbers.

 

 

You keep quoting inventory like a Wal-Mart manager to indicate sales when you know it's more then that. Silverado have more inventory then that but yet it's the 2nd best-selling vehicle.

Silverado Inventory is justified based on current sales, ATS and CTS are not and haven't been for months.

The fact that GM did nothing for about six month and let inventory build so high is the real travesty here.

How oin earth can Cadillac keep price integrity when it's now preoccupied with selling down

close on 30,000 hard to shift ATS and CTS... not even you can defend that.

 

CUVs I agree should had been the next step but that's getting remedied in a few years as GM updates the CUV portfolio. Lincoln only have the MKC for sale and it's like Lincoln is the CUV leader around here.

Lincoln has MKC, MKX, MKT (Blech) and Navigator, combined Ute sales last month was 5,568 sales out of 8,113 total.

 

Why does Cadillac only have SRX and Escalade when there is so much morem it can offer?

Answer: A preoccupation with chasing 3 and 5 series BMWs..

 

 

 

How about quit trying to be BMW/Audi. Quit building "fighters" and just be Cadillac?! Is that really so freaking hard?

 

Typical GM, can't see the forest through the trees, trying to be everyone else instead of their own identity.

Wonderful, insightful and concise.

Edited December 20, 2014 by jpd80

[Dave-S]

As a side note to selling autos in the luxury segment, why do Lincoln Dealers have so little inventory of the MKS? Dealers around here typically have only one or two cars in stock.

[Fgts]

How about quit trying to be BMW/Audi. Quit building "fighters" and just be Cadillac?! Is that really so freaking hard?

 

Typical GM, can't see the forest through the trees, trying to be everyone else instead of their own identity.

What's a "Cadillac?" (A big floatmobile that no one wants like the XTS and MKS?).

 

Imho the last real "Cadillac" was the 96' Fleetwood. Let's see how the new CT6 will do.

[PREMiERdrum]

Re:MKS

 

Most dealers seem afraid to have them sit on the lot for so long. One or two are plenty on hand for those bluehairs trading in their Town Cars who can't be sold on an MKZ, X, or C.

[Fgts]

Cadillac simply covered a mistake with an even bigger one - expensive dedicated RWD BMW Fighters,

Cadillac had CTS buyer eating out of its hand, sure they wanted good deals but the sales were there.

now it needs Camaro to come in and pay for all the development costs.of expensive Alphas

because thsoe former buyers are staying out and the conquests didn't cover the numbers.

And as I mentioned before when they were making those "bargain" cars sales still slid. The ATS and CTS have Atp and conquest rates Lincoln can only dream of plus when to replace such vehicles what platform Cadillac should use while the Camaro is neglected?. Stop seeing things with blue glasses.

 

Silverado Inventory is justified based on current sales, ATS and CTS are not and haven't been for months.

The fact that GM did nothing for about six month and let inventory build so high is the real travesty here.

How oin earth can Cadillac keep price integrity when it's now preoccupied with selling down

close on 30,000 hard to shift ATS and CTS... not even you can defend that.

 

 

So Cadillac holds the line on price and people still buying them but not as much as the Sigma CTS . Otoh the ATS/CTS is outselling the old Sigma CTS at a higher price. I can agree on inventory discipline but the Caddys in a factory that's to receive a high-volume car, I think GM wanted those guys ready.

Lincoln has MKC, MKX, MKT (Blech) and Navigator, combined Ute sales last month was 5,568 sales out of 8,113 total.

 

Why does Cadillac only have SRX and Escalade when there is so much morem it can offer?

Answer: A preoccupation with chasing 3 and 5 series BMWs..

 

Now that's a problem there, your competitor having less Utes for sale but still outselling your Ute lineup while having a strong car lineup. People buying $90k Escalades with a wait list. Lincoln can charge that much running a 2 for 1 special.....

[jpd80]

And as I mentioned before when they were making those "bargain" cars sales still slid. The ATS and CTS have Atp and conquest rates Lincoln can only dream of plus when to replace such vehicles what platform Cadillac should use while the Camaro is neglected?. Stop seeing things with blue glasses.

The ATS has conquest rates because it's a new product, there no returning customers yet..

And comparing Gadillac to lincoln is setting the bar low for a company that had billions spent

on it trying to chnage its image, don't ya think?

 

 

So Cadillac holds the line on price and people still buying them but not as much as the Sigma CTS . Otoh the ATS/CTS is outselling the old Sigma CTS at a higher price. I can agree on inventory discipline but the Caddys in a factory that's to receive a high-volume car, I think GM wanted those guys ready.

GM had a fully worked out business plan and production plan, only half of the product sold,

you cannot have pricing discipline and no production discipline to back it up.

Sigma CTS was dead duck because all funding for upgrades was diverted to new Alpha products

so there's no pint comparing an aged product denied funding to a sales slide in fromt of an expected new CTS

what really hurt was the sticker shock, that's when the rest of the buyers departed and not enough new blood replaced them.

 

Now that's a problem there, your competitor having less Utes for sale but still outselling your Ute lineup while having a strong car lineup. People buying $90k Escalades with a wait list. Lincoln can charge that much running a 2 for 1 special....

.It's only a problem for a company that continually compares itself to others,

The bulk of business is done by Ford Motor, Lincoln is like 5% of that and has a proportionate level of exposure,

Ford products cover the bulk of expenses and production costs.

[Fgts]

The ATS has conquest rates because it's a new product, there no returning customers yet..

And comparing Gadillac to lincoln is setting the bar low for a company that had billions spent

on it trying to chnage its image, don't ya think?

No Cadillac is not aiming for Lincoln. The 2 is still seen as competitors because up to a few years ago they were American luxury competitors, as for spending Lincoln is about to get extra Billions on top of the Billion spent to get the proper products in showrooms. Buying luxury and building luxury had 2 things in common, it ani't cheap.

 

GM had a fully worked out business plan and production plan, only half of the product sold,

you cannot have pricing discipline and no production discipline to back it up.

Sigma CTS was dead duck because all funding for upgrades was diverted to new Alpha products

so there's no pint comparing an aged product denied funding to a sales slide in fromt of an expected new CTS

what really hurt was the sticker shock, that's when the rest of the buyers departed and not enough new blood replaced them.

 

Of course all the money went to Alpha as more cars and bodystyles in multiple divisions can be made rather then just Cadillac. The "lost" CTS sales are already caught up with ATS and even better with Camaro.

 

 

.It's only a problem for a company that continually compares itself to others,

The bulk of business is done by Ford Motor, Lincoln is like 5% of that and has a proportionate level of exposure,

Ford products cover the bulk of expenses and production costs.

So that means GM not making any money on CUVs, truck/SUV and regular car lineup, just Cadillac....

[akirby]

Like talking to a brick wall.......

[Fgts]

Like talking to a brick wall.......

U mad bro?

[jpd80]

No Cadillac is not aiming for Lincoln. The 2 is still seen as competitors because up to a few years ago they were American luxury competitors, as for spending Lincoln is about to get extra Billions on top of the Billion spent to get the proper products in showrooms. Buying luxury and building luxury had 2 things in common, it ani't cheap.

The spend on Lincoln is being done over several years and multiple products. That is a long way different to the massive spend that has been going on at Cadillac for the past decade or more.

 

 

Of course all the money went to Alpha as more cars and bodystyles in multiple divisions can be made rather then just Cadillac. The "lost" CTS sales are already caught up with ATS and even better with Camaro.

The money was diverted away from Silverado to Alpha, they hurt their breadwinner to make room fo cadillac.

The "lost CTS sales ar still lost, GM is using multiple cars to cover the old CTS segment and sales are not as strong as expected, that's why 400 people lost their jobs - that's the GM way, stall a decision until weeks out from Christmas and then Bam, sock it to your employees.

Camaro inventory has blown out to 26,000, not an SS amongst them, All V6s and high series stuff most GM buyers don't want.That's another overproduction mess GM has to clean up before the 16 Camaro arrives.

 

 

 

So that means GM not making any money on CUVs, truck/SUV and regular car lineup, just Cadillac....

II only mentioned Lincoln's dependance on Ford's manufacturing and Product cycles,'

GM has a different setup and runs different product timetables for different divisions,

that's the key difference.

 

I think you're talking in circles because you really don't have the depth of research,

to understand the recent history regarding GM and its decisions.

 

Cadillac is clearly more strategically and financially important to GM than lincoln is to Ford,

love it or hate it, that's the reality of a brand that netts 5% of the sales of its parent brand.

It's financial position is really that inconsequential to Ford, basically off the radar.

Lincoln has plenty of time to feed in products, the market has shown it will wait.

Edited December 20, 2014 by jpd80

[Fgts]

The spend on Lincoln is being done over several years and multiple products. That is a long way different to the massive spend that has been going on at Cadillac for the past decade or more.

 

Agreed.

 

 

The money was diverted away from Silverado to Alpha, they hurt their breadwinner to make room fo cadillac.

The "lost CTS sales ar still lost, GM is using multiple cars to cover the old CTS segment and sales are not as strong as expected, that's why 400 people lost their jobs - that's the GM way, stall a decision until weeks out from Christmas and then Bam, sock it to your employees.

Camaro inventory has blown out to 26,000, not an SS amongst them, All V6s and high series stuff most GM buyers don't want.That's another overproduction mess GM has to clean up before the 16 Camaro arrives.

Source that Alpha took away from K2XX development?. If that's the cas add Ep2 and Gamma platform vehicles to that bunch as those launched the same time as the current Silverado.

 

Only up to maybe 3 months ago the current Camaro constantly out-sold the Mustang. The Mustang is the new kid on the block up until the new Camaro is released or the new Camaro is very underwhelming, we'll see the base Camaro numbers improve.

 

II only mentioned Lincoln's dependance on Ford's manufacturing and Product cycles,'

GM has a different setup and runs different product timetables for different divisions,

that's the key difference.

 

I think you're talking in circles because you really don't have the depth of research,

to understand the recent history regarding GM and its decisions.

 

Cadillac is clearly more strategically and financially important to GM than lincoln is to Ford,

love it o rhate it, that the reality of a brand that netts 55 of the sales of its parent brand.

It's financial position is really that inconsequential to Foird, basically off the radar.

Im talking circles but because you blindingly keep pushing out inventory numbers makes your argument seem better. If Ford can get away with Lincoln not turning a dollar fine but to say how much better Lincoln is with no product that people will bust down the door and expecting people to pay extra $$$ for a luxury "experience" is silly.

[jpd80]

Agreed.

 

 

Source that Alpha took away from K2XX development?. If that's the cas add Ep2 and Gamma platform vehicles to that bunch as those launched the same time as the current Silverado.

I'm not going to chanse down every reference because you demand it.

 

Only up to maybe 3 months ago the current Camaro constantly out-sold the Mustang. The Mustang is the new kid on the block up until the new Camaro is released or the new Camaro is very underwhelming, we'll see the base Camaro numbers improve.

It took longer than three months for that inventory to grow to such levels, again GM did nothing to kerb production.

The Mustang had much better balanced inventory, that's why the run out went so smoothly.

 

 

Im talking circles but because you blindingly keep pushing out inventory numbers makes your argument seem better.

Yes you are because you have no facts and no research.

 

 

If Ford can get away with Lincoln not turning a dollar fine but to say how much better Lincoln is with no product that people will bust down the door and expecting people to pay extra $$$ for a luxury "experience" is silly.

Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth

 

I did not say that Lincoln does not earn a dollar, I said its financial position is inconsequential

by fact of sales being 5% of its parent, Ford, there's a huge difference right there.

Lincoln is profitable because it is set up as premium priced products based on Ford originators.

 

no where have I said that Lincoln is so much better and furhermore,

i defy you to find that anywhere I have said those words in this thread.

 

You are out of ammo because you're trying to turn this thread to Lincoln.

[akirby]

You don't understand platform development costs and how that impacts profitability.

 

You don't understand how large inventory numbers are bad.

 

You don't understand that selling fewer vehicles at higher ATPs and using shared platforms leads to more profits.

 

You don't understand that luxury buyers want the full luxury experience at the dealership not just great vehicles.

 

 

 

All you do is make excuses to rationalize GM's bad decisions because you personally like the ATS and CTS.

[Fgts]

You don't understand platform development costs and how that impacts profitability.

 

You don't understand how large inventory numbers are bad.

 

You don't understand that selling fewer vehicles at higher ATPs and using shared platforms leads to more profits.

 

You don't understand that luxury buyers want the full luxury experience at the dealership not just great vehicles.

 

 

 

All you do is make excuses to rationalize GM's bad decisions because you personally like the ATS and CTS.

Yes I understand fully said above also I do like the CTS/ATS combo.

 

The reason behind that is not because I just like GM, it's just the foreign competition figures a way to make desirable luxury coupes and sedans and make money and increase marketshare .

 

A domestic competitor dose the same thing and it's the worst decision in the automotive scene despite proof over the past 30 years a compromised luxury car is not what the market wants either, ask Acura.

 

Ford had Billions to blow in the 90s with Lincoln in the lead. Other then JackAss Nasser why Ford let Lincoln slip like it did?Y yea I know Ford had to get it's house in order but GM went into receivership and Cadillac still move more metal then Lincoln.

[jpd80]

It's the way GM did it, ATS and CTS are great vehicles but they basically served them up to Cadillac's existing buyers in a way that sent them packing and did nothing to encourage new buyers to take them up. Why would you put the new ATS up against a discounted Sigma CTS for nearly 12 months - f****ing insane. And then introduce a new higher priced CTS then wonder where all your customers went... Poof out the door , but let's not change the production schedule for 12 month, no, let's add some coupes into the mix and see what happens...Cadillac had no feedback control of its processes, there was no closing the loop between sales and production.

 

At the same time BMW and MB saw them coming and began offering killer leases. It was always going to end this way.

Buyers wo wanted 3 & 5 series or comparable MBs went and leased them, forget the copies we want the brand.

 

Ford clearly mistreated Lincoln for the longest time because it thought that PAG was going to be the new income stream and Lincoln would get scraps from the table of J/LR and Volvo. But J/LR cried foul and lobbied that Lincoln get no more DEW products as that would compete with them. Ford ceded to J/LR. Maanwhile PAG bled red ink all over the place to the tune oif $12 Billion before Alan Mulally could convince Ford to 86 all of them, Volvo was sad, it was best intergrated of the lot and contributed much to Ford, it should ahve been saved.

 

I agre with you more should have been done sooner with Lincoln but until recently Ford brass had neither a clue nor the inclination to even try.

Now, finally, there's a ting crack, a breath of fresh aor and a chance that Lincoln will become something new and fresh. but it will take years to undo all the neglect and put Lincoln back on buyers' radars.

Edited December 20, 2014 by jpd80

[Dave-S]

I guess this argument can on and on and on without agreement.

 

But the fact is both Ford and GM have plenty of issues to deal with as far as their "luxury" segments go. Cadillac has good product in the car segment (my opinion) but there are many other problems standing in their way to sell those cars profitably at desired volume levels. Lincoln has little to offer with only two car lines. If they step up to the plate and produce some additional desirable offerings in the years ahead, hopefully the marketability and profitability will be there as well. But that is yet to be seen.

 

Now on a personal note, it has been a long time since anything in the Lincoln car line appealed to me (the Lincoln Mark VIII was the last one I liked). On the other hand I like all of Cadillac's current cars especially the CTS. However, as I said before I wouldn't buy one because of the price tags Caddy has chosen to put on these cars.

 

So in the end the luxury car segment still belongs mainly to the Germans and will continue that way well into the foreseeable future no matter what GM and Ford do in the near future.

[akirby]

Just because one company can sell a certain product doesn't mean others can.

 

All those imports you mention sell their cars worldwide. Caddy is NA only. That makes a huge difference in volume and cost structure.

 

Do you think BMW could sell a full sized pickup?

 

How many people buy a Lexus just because of the dealership experience? A lot.

 

It takes decades to build a luxury brand. Lincoln understands this and they're doing it methodically. GM is swinging for the fences.

 

You think moving metal is what matters but it isn't. GM moved more metal than anyone and WENT BANKRUPT! Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

[RichardJensen]

Yes I understand fully said above also I do like the CTS/ATS combo.

 

Then please explain development cost amortization and cost allocation among business units.

[Fgts]

Just because one company can sell a certain product doesn't mean others can.

 

All those imports you mention sell their cars worldwide. Caddy is NA only. That makes a huge difference in volume and cost structure.

 

Do you think BMW could sell a full sized pickup?

How many rwd Benz and Bimms share a platform with less expensive, volume models and offer a pickup in the same company?

 

How many people buy a Lexus just because of the dealership experience? A lot.

 

It takes decades to build a luxury brand. Lincoln understands this and they're doing it methodically. GM is swinging for the fences.

Lincoln was already an establish player along with Cadillac up until the writing was the wall in the 90s from compromising for more money om the short term. Why Lincoln need to "start over"?

You think moving metal is what matters but it isn't. GM moved more metal than anyone and WENT BANKRUPT! Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

That's far reaching if you think GM BK'ed because of Cadillac.

[sullynd]

Ever been in a Taxi in Europe?

[RichardJensen]

That's far reaching if you think GM BK'ed because of Cadillac.

 

Says the person who can't explain double-entry accounting, cash flows, or opportunity costs.